Scarfinger68 - Aurora Indica - Soil - 600W Dimmable HPS - Indoor Closet Grow

[HunterHunt]

That thread is awesome bro, they really know what they are talking about! I have to definitely give it a try!!!

There are some of us that dont believe in defoliation and that you will have faster and better growth without defoliation. Although you must have a HID setup for light penetration of course. Its a big controversial topic here on 420! =)

Scar, you should have did a side by side comparisons! Although you are late in the timeline for a true defoliation test.

Looking great! I love to see big colas like that.

 

[TheRoach]

I know what you mean hunter, back in 2012 when they started that thread I was very skeptical about defoliation; I had been in 420 for about two years hearing over and over that defoliation was bad for your plants, then Bassman came up with that thread and there was a big fuss about it. I´m still making my mind after three years: It is undeniable he got results, but I dont know if he could get better results without defoliation.

I will let Bassman answer that question for us:

Still skeptical?

Yesterday I began harvest. I have trimmed down one plant, the biggest of the four. Her trimmed wet weight is 1160 grams. Should dry to between 10.22oz - 12.2oz

Here's a pic on scale after about 8 hrs drying time and to get perspective, the cardboard box lid is from one of those full size file storage boxes you would get at office max and such.

I guess Mr Smith is pretty busy with other life stuff and hasn't been able to chime in just yet. Feel free to comment or ask questions. We'll see if we can get his thoughts bumped up should he find the time later on to post his experience.

Please, if you havent tried this and want to talk about solar panels and such, refrain from posting. I am sharing my actual experience, not theory or conjecture. Numerous other forums have turned into a shit fest of bickering from those that refuse to try or accept the experience of those that have.

Let's keep this educational for all of us.

Regards!

 

[HunterHunt]

Awesome! Thats some pretty cannabis. To each is there own and its best to try all methods and pick what works best for someone. It has a lot to do with confidence as well. Even if a method might not be scientific proven to work better, someone that is confident in there method may pull more weight because they know there method and how to utilize there method.

I personally have tried both and can say for sure that no defoliation works the best for me. But I love big ass plants and monster colas. Some people may not have enough room to grow like I do so they utilize what they have. You can cut a plant half way down and still produce awesome cannabis! Thats one of the many reasons this plant is truly amazing...

From what i heard stress at the correct times can make a plant grow more vigorously so maybe it has some truth to it! Just not for me.

As far as Bassman goes hes a very good grower and respected here. I hate what happen to him. As far as his yield that really doesnt tell me any thing and is actually kinda small compared to his growing style and lights. Im not sure which grow this was but he always used 1000 watt HPS for flowering until he switched to LED on the last grow. His numbers are low when u figure in what he has. With the 1000 watt HPS he should pull close to 700-1000 grams of dried herb under that light to get close to the 1 gram per watt measure. He only has like he said around 12 ounces which is around 340 grams... Personally I am pulling very close to my 600 gram mark for each 600 watt I have with no defoliation. But on one of his grows he had to put in a 400 watt bulb instead of the 1000 watt so maybe this is that grow. If so then his numbers are pretty spot on and he would hit his 1 gram per watt. There again this isnt really a comparison for me to show that defoliation worked in this case.

The thing that I would say about defoliation is that it can for sure get light to your whole cola and lower bud sites. I get pretty good penetration with my HPS but if I scrog some areas could be hidden under other colas or stacked together fan leaves. Thats why I now will only do one plant per 600 watt HPS so I can get better light distribution, better airflow, and monster colas!

Keep em green!

 

[VladimirPutin]

I agree with Scarfinger, defoliating is tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. A better theory is that since the plant is vegetating during the strongest most intense summer days in its natural habitat, then all those leaves must serve as bud growing energy storage. Also, light intensity falls off in nature during the end of flowering because that's what happens in Autumn. Countries that reside around the equator are famous for sativa plants, due to the longer daylight period

Vlad

 

[Scarfinger68]

That thread is awesome bro, they really know what they are talking about! I have to definitely give it a try!!!

I am not actually promoting defoliation as the only way to grow. But I would say like Hunter stated, to each his own and do what works for you. I am really just giving it one more try a little bit earlier in flower to see what happens.

This is only my second time trying defoliation.

There are some of us that dont believe in defoliation and that you will have faster and better growth without defoliation. Although you must have a HID setup for light penetration of course. Its a big controversial topic here on 420! =)

Scar, you should have did a side by side comparisons! Although you are late in the timeline for a true defoliation test.

Looking great! I love to see big colas like that.

I did a 2 plant side by side with Nirvana ICE and I didn't see any difference but I did it a little late into flower.

The thing that I would say about defoliation is that it can for sure get light to your whole cola and lower bud sites. I get pretty good penetration with my HPS but if I scrog some areas could be hidden under other colas or stacked together fan leaves. Thats why I now will only do one plant per 600 watt HPS so I can get better light distribution, better airflow, and monster colas!

Keep em green!

Looks like I got a few people talking

I am very... unemotional about defoliation either way good or bad. I am very comfortable with my Aurora Indica grows so I am just experimenting.

light to your whole cola and lower bud sites.

That is the number one reason I am giving defoliation another try. I can definitely see the light penetrating to the lower bud and bud sites.

I averaged 23 grams under CFL with Aurora Indica in 1 gallon pots. I am pretty sure I will get up to 30 grams dry per plant with HPS. Now If I pull 40 grams per plant I may be inclined to say that defoliation helped some... or at least didn't hurt any

But then again I do realize multiple factors are at play... Aurora grown from seed and not clones, slightly different soil this grow, and the #1 factor is a new type of grow light...HPS vs. last grow was CFL

Thanks for the comments.

 

[TheRoach]

Awesome! Thats some pretty cannabis. To each is there own and its best to try all methods and pick what works best for someone. It has a lot to do with confidence as well. Even if a method might not be scientific proven to work better, someone that is confident in there method may pull more weight because they know there method and how to utilize there method.

I personally have tried both and can say for sure that no defoliation works the best for me. But I love big ass plants and monster colas. Some people may not have enough room to grow like I do so they utilize what they have. You can cut a plant half way down and still produce awesome cannabis! Thats one of the many reasons this plant is truly amazing...

From what i heard stress at the correct times can make a plant grow more vigorously so maybe it has some truth to it! Just not for me.

As far as Bassman goes hes a very good grower and respected here. I hate what happen to him. As far as his yield that really doesnt tell me any thing and is actually kinda small compared to his growing style and lights. Im not sure which grow this was but he always used 1000 watt HPS for flowering until he switched to LED on the last grow. His numbers are low when u figure in what he has. With the 1000 watt HPS he should pull close to 700-1000 grams of dried herb under that light to get close to the 1 gram per watt measure. He only has like he said around 12 ounces which is around 340 grams... Personally I am pulling very close to my 600 gram mark for each 600 watt I have with no defoliation. But on one of his grows he had to put in a 400 watt bulb instead of the 1000 watt so maybe this is that grow. If so then his numbers are pretty spot on and he would hit his 1 gram per watt. There again this isnt really a comparison for me to show that defoliation worked in this case.

The thing that I would say about defoliation is that it can for sure get light to your whole cola and lower bud sites. I get pretty good penetration with my HPS but if I scrog some areas could be hidden under other colas or stacked together fan leaves. Thats why I now will only do one plant per 600 watt HPS so I can get better light distribution, better airflow, and monster colas!

Keep em green!

Hunter, that is very solid argumentation man! Now that you mention what set up he used it may be true that defoliation is not that much of a benefit. You have made your own grows and have compared the results, and that is very valid input as well. I want to do more research unto this matter to find the bottom of this question. So in this coming batch of flowering clones I will select two plants and run a side by side test. It may not be undeniable proof of anything because of the small sample size, but I guess it will shed some light into this question, at least for me. Reps+ for your sound logic.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Did you watch the Americas Cup match last night? Colombia had so many miracle saves and even a potential autogoal was saved, but they lost in penalty kicks!!! what a pisser. Oh well, bye football, until next year.

Vlad

 

[Scarfinger68]

Did you watch the Americas Cup match last night? Colombia had so many miracle saves and even a potential autogoal was saved, but they lost in penalty kicks!!! what a pisser. Oh well, bye football, until next year.

Vlad

Didn't see it.

 

[Cruizer]

I defoliate and root prune when needed. I grow under cfl's and in a tight space, I defoliate to keep temps down, get light penetration and for better airflow. This is only my second grow and I haven't tried a plant without defoliation, maybe I should. Lol It doesn't bother me one way or another.

 

[VladimirPutin]

I defoliate and root prune when needed. I grow under cfl's and in a tight space, I defoliate to keep temps down, get light penetration and for better airflow. This is only my second grow and I haven't tried a plant without defoliation, maybe I should. Lol It doesn't bother me one way or another.

Could you please sum up the reason for root pruning? I understand the plant has vitamins in minerals in all parts, and chopping them off is like disabling a cylinder in your car's engine. But I have not heard of root pruning before... tell us.

Vlad

 

[GhettoGro]

My bagseeds are defoilating themselves.

But seriously, if the leaf is green and in the light, leave it. IMHO

If growing with CFL or LED, I can understand trimming leaves near the main canopy. If you use HPS don't trim any. IMHO


Bud/white hair do NOT access light as a green leaf does. The green leaf with chlorophyll is what turns light into energy.

 

[Cruizer]

Could you please sum up the reason for root pruning? I understand the plant has vitamins in minerals in all parts, and chopping them off is like disabling a cylinder in your car's engine. But I have not heard of root pruning before... tell us.

Vlad

I root prune to keep them in 1 gallon pots for a long veg, to prevent getting root bound. I have root pruned to recover them from over watering. They come back strong in about a week if you're just pruning to keep in a pot. About 2-3 weeks if doing a recovery, I chopped about a third off the roots and mixed up fresh soil that the new roots would grow into. I still have those plants in veg and they look great.

I don't know anything scientific about it, I just went for it. You never know until you try something. I guess i can google it, lol.

Edit: I have an updated video in my journal to check out the girls.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Could you please sum up the reason for root pruning? I understand the plant has vitamins in minerals in all parts, and chopping them off is like disabling a cylinder in your car's engine. But I have not heard of root pruning before... tell us.

Vlad

I root prune to keep them in 1 gallon pots for a long veg, to prevent getting root bound. I have root pruned to recover them from over watering. They come back strong in about a week if you're just pruning to keep in a pot. About 2-3 weeks if doing a recovery, I chopped about a third off the roots and mixed up fresh soil that the new roots would grow into. I still have those plants in veg and they look great.

I don't know anything scientific about it, I just went for it. You never know until you try something. I guess i can google it, lol.

Edit: I have an updated video in my journal to check out the girls.

Reason 1: To maintain a plant in a certain size container. For example keeping a mother plant in a 1 gallon container for a year or longer. She will get root bound and you will need to trim the roots and add new soil to maintain her health.

Reason 2: (This is from my own reading and deductions from bits and parts of different articles. These may be more anecdotal than scientific.) To encourage a more symmetrical root ball. As I understand it the roots grow down and then circle the bottom and then start going up and down the pot or vise versa. Either way you have a few roots encompassing the pot.

By pruning you encourage more offshoots and this more roots for a healthier plant. I have heard this reasoning for "airpots". The roots self prune and those grow more roots. AirPot advertisement:

Air pruning eliminates root circling and encourages the development of a mass of healthy fibrous roots. The additional roots mean better take up of nutrients and water leading to faster growth and healthier plants.

So if you don't have an airpot... you have do some pruning manually. I cut the bottom off, approximately 1 inch, and then 3 vertical scores or cuts into the roots (not too deep) when transplanting.

Vertical cuts about half of what the scissors are showing... had to hold the camera

So its basically to have a healthier, bigger, uniform root ball. Or... maybe its all in my head and I have just convinced myself that it is good for the plant. I honestly think it helps.

 

[closetorganic]

I read this once and had to find it again to help out with the root pruning talk.
Bonsai Mothers
I thought it was amazing keeping productive mother plants in small pots under shoplights for years.

 

[closetorganic]

That took so long to post I didnt see yours Scar which is great stuff from your experience

 

[Scarfinger68]

My bagseeds are defoilating themselves.

But seriously, if the leaf is green and in the light, leave it. IMHO

If growing with CFL or LED, I can understand trimming leaves near the main canopy. If you use HPS don't trim any. IMHO


Bud/white hair do NOT access light as a green leaf does. The green leaf with chlorophyll is what turns light into energy.

Plenty of leaves on there still. But, now the light can reach the lower levels . It will be ok, I promise

I find myself pinching off more and more fan leaves, especially in VEG. If it is blocking anything...pinch.

Why do I do it? Well... I try to self reflect... I think its because I am getting so comfortable growing. From my early grows of burning off all the leaves and doctoring up the plant hoping that it makes it to harvest, to now everything going so smoothly. A little root pruning here, some defilation there, change this in my soil this time, a leaf spot here and there. But then again I am not sure why I do all the things I do. Sometimes I just do different stuff one grow and then don't do it...OR forget to do it on another grow

One of these days I will get it all down pat. And say...you have to do this and have to do that for the biggest badest buds ever...

Nah... To each his own

Keep it green!

 

[Scarfinger68]

I read this once and had to find it again to help out with the root pruning talk.
Bonsai Mothers
I thought it was amazing keeping productive mother plants in small pots under shoplights for years.

That took so long to post I didnt see yours Scar which is great stuff from your experience

That's great Closet... I was actually thinking about finding that exact article and posting it. Now I don't have to

 

[VladimirPutin]

I see... traditional means of keeping an older mother mj plant would require a big pot... unless root pruning were employed. Great explanation!

Vlad

 

[Scarfinger68]

6/29 (F day 42) Watered with 2.0 tsp/gal Big Bloom, 1 tsp/gal Grow Big, 1.0 tsp/gal Tiger Bloom, 0.5 tsp/gal Cal/Mag.

5 days since the defoliation. They started wilting a little bit today so I thoroughly watered them with nutes. In my eyes I believe they have recovered.

 

[VladimirPutin]

A nice smell to wake up to in the morning. well done man!