Rust leading to yellowing

[Poezebeest]

So what did the plants say? If it's the first time they've had that much rain might be a bit droopy?
If that's the case might want to poke some holes with your meter in the soil for aeration.
Did you just use soil? might want to consider perlite to layer in with the soil next time, so you get good drainage and oxygen to the roots and it doesn't stay a wet mess for a long time after watering.

I was planning to take pictures in an hour or so, to compare them with yesterday. It's hard to judge on sight with all the discoloring they have done the past 3 days. There are many shades of green, yellow and brown.
Yes, it was indeed the first time they got that much rain. The soil still looks very wet. I was expecting them to look droopy, but it doesn't look that way.
I mixed perlite in the soil, 1 liter of perlite on 10 liters of soil.

I'll make an update later.

 

[Poezebeest]

I just took the pictures and compared them with the pictures from yesterday evening.
I'm still inconclusive if it completely stopped. There where already many leaves with brown parts, curling and getting dry. Some spots look like they may have increased in size a little bit.

Personally, I think if it went downhill like the last 3 days, it would be more obvious.

Here are the pictures from yesterday and today:

 

[Fenderbender]

That sure is something having such a widespread systemic failure going on over all the plants.
Looks like they didn't mind the flushing. But they'll be hungry soon.

I'd start removing some of the worst leaves if it feels like they come off easy, they goners anyways, might give a better overview of what's newly affected over the next days.
also inspect them for maybe any other causes.
There's already good bud formation, just getting a few more weeks out of them should be possible and on the upside trimming will be very easy.

 

[Poezebeest]

Yes, they probably will be hungry. They didn't get any nutrients for the past 3 days and it doesn't look like they will get anything tomorrow. Also, the humidity is a bit on the high side because of rainy days, the dehumidifier is working overtime.

I already look for leaves who will come off easily every day. Basically everything you see seems firmly attached, some of those very bad looking leaves still have some green at the base. Should I do something with the leaves who are wilted halfway?

Otherwise, I wouldn't know what other causes to look for. I see no rot, mold or bugs. My sticky plates also never caught anything. The plants smell good.

 

[Fenderbender]

Oh, if they are still firm and got some green you can wait for that to go, but those leaves will not get repaired so I'd get them out of there as I feel at this point they just shading more functioning leaves.

Well if it smells good that's great
But yeah what the heck is causing this.
Careful refeed and hope for the best?

 

[Poezebeest]

I'm hoping for the best indeed, it's probably all I can do now.

If all goes well, would it be wise to cut off dead parts of the leaves or is that too risky for infections? Sometimes it's just a few fingers of the leaf being dead, while other fingers are still lime green/yellowy with rusty looking spots.

The moment I can feed again, I guess CalMag will still be needed? If so, I'm thinking about ditching the Biobizz and go for Plagron instead.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hi @Poezebeest ! Sorry to see you're having some trouble with your plants. I haven't read the whole thread here, but I'll chime in with my thoughts.

First, it seems like your plants are a bit too crowded in the space. Your pot size is only 3 gallons, which I think isn't enough. You'd be better with 5-6 gallons. (I grow outdoor greenhouse photo plants in 15 gal smart pots.) It would be interesting to see one of your plants pulled out of the group, to see what it looks like compared to its pot size.

Anyway, that's what I'm seeing: pot size too small, plants stressed out, leaves dying, difficulty with watering and nutrients. You are in a tough situation with watering, because of the small pot size, so the wet/dry cycle isn't ideal.

How close are you to harvest? What do the trichomes look like now?

I agree, carefully snip off all dead and dying material... all whole leaves that are affected. Also, carefully check the plants for signs of mold and bud rot.

 

[Poezebeest]

@cbdhemp808 I agree on the pots and space being on the small size. This is my first experience with a tent and I don't really have the space to put a larger one. The idea on the pot size was that I could place 5 pots and not let the plants get too big.
I went on 12/12 with 5 plants and removed one during the first week, as it was obvious space would be an issue.

I already purchased bigger 18 liter (4.7 gallon?) plastic pots for next time. Though I can still change my mind and buy fabric instead.

Not sure how close to harvest exactly. The strain is advertised as 7-8 weeks bloom. They are in their 6th week on 12/12 and I'm counting actual blooming as 4th week. Not sure if I started counting actual bloom late or early, a few days probably won't make the difference.

Trichomes still look clear. I've tried to make a picture of them but it's not easy to hold the scope and the camera. Zoomed in shot also isn't very clear but I'll add them anyway.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Trichomes still look clear. I've tried to make a picture of them but it's not easy to hold the scope and the camera. Zoomed in shot also isn't very clear but I'll add them anyway.

Nice shots! Are you sure they are all clear? It's hard for me to say, but it looks like you may have a lot of milky ones.

 

[Poezebeest]

@cbdhemp808 I think that's mostly reflection from the light/walls. I will check them more frequently and see how they progress. The first picture in my previous post was the most clear, from a bud where the light was a little less intense. Otherwise I have not seen trichomes who look milky for sure.

I have the impression the buds start to swell a bit and more pistils start to change color.

As for my problem. I have not seen any notable change in the leaves not affected and those slightly affected. Heavily affected leaf-fingers are wilting.

 

[Fenderbender]

I count from 12/12 as that's when you initiate the flowering stimulus..and well the 7-8 weeks is just an indicator, but they do kinda seem on time, of course the problem will have slowed ideal development down.

I think this will work out fine.. milkyness is already setting in, and there's fine looking buds and trichs on there.. if you can get them through the next few weeks you'll have some nice Critical to get you through the Summer

 

[Poezebeest]

A smoke by the time it's summer holidays is what I'm counting on

I'll update for any possible developments. I gave some food today and tomorrow I might cut away some dead leaf parts.

I already wish to thank everyone for their input

I'll leave a comparison how my little problem spiraled out of control in a weeks time.

@Emilya Have you any idea yet regarding Plagron's advisment to feed every watering?

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya Have you any idea yet regarding Plagron's advisment to feed every watering?

no, it was a horribly busy weekend for me, but now that we are back to the work week and everyone is out of my way, I am going to get back to it. Researching into that is on my afternoon list of things to get to. Thank you for your patience. I am curious at what level you fed them today?

 

[Poezebeest]

I am curious at what level you fed them today?

You mean water level or amount of nutrients? Only the deepest part was still wet, the rest around halfway moist. Forgive if that was wrong. Pots felt fairly light, not light as a feather like they where prior to flushing.
As for nutrients, 3ml/l, just over half the maximum.

 

[cbdhemp808]

As for my problem. I have not seen any notable change in the leaves not affected and those slightly affected. Heavily affected leaf-fingers are wilting.

No change may be a good sign, and I don't see any wilting. But as another member mentioned, it looks like a systemic problem. Lately I've had root disease on my mind – one of my plants in a large plastic container has just bit the dust, and I think it's root rot fungus. Sometimes root disease shows as sudden leaf problems. It can develop if you have been over-watering and/or have poor drainage in your pots, possibly due to them being too small and becoming root bound.

I recommend definitely using fabric smart pots in the future, and sufficiently large ones.

 

[Poezebeest]

With wilting I mean those brown leaf-fingers curling up and getting crispy. Not sure what the correct English term is.

Wouldn't it be odd they all develop root related problems at the same time? The smallest plant started showing symptoms later though, so it could be possible. She is a few days younger than the rest.

If I order smart pots, it will be 22 liter. Which is twice the size of those I have now.

 

[Emilya Green]

You mean water level or amount of nutrients? Only the deepest part was still wet, the rest around halfway moist. Forgive if that was wrong. Pots felt fairly light, not light as a feather like they where prior to flushing.
As for nutrients, 3ml/l, just over half the maximum.

I meant the nutrient level and you went with half again. You keep calling it the maximum, but I call it the recommended amount. We will talk more about this soon. I don't expect any change from this watering then... just more of the same. If we see improvement, even minimally, I will credit the flush... but I don't expect it. Keep giving us pictures each day now after these last steps, so we can try to determine what it is that is having an effect, or not.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Wouldn't it be odd they all develop root related problems at the same time? The smallest plant started showing symptoms later though, so it could be possible. She is a few days younger than the rest.

Yeah, I thought that too. But if they all have soil from the same source, that could explain it, because the fungus spores are in the soil. Or perhaps the fungus got in from something you were feeding them. I really have zero experience with root disease... just learning about it. Maybe others can help out here. Keep in mind that for root disease fungus to kill a plant, there needs to be the right subsoil environment for it to "bloom", and that's warm and too wet. So, over-watering can create the too wet, as can a pot that is clogged and not draining properly. If the roots have run out of space in the pot, that could lead to a need to water daily, and also possibly inadequate drainage. That's my current understanding.

Root disease will start to cause nutrient problems, because the roots aren't taking up nutrients properly. Advanced root disease will shut down water absorption by the roots, causing wilting of the plant, and then the fungus can also become systemic in the stems and leaves.

My pots aren't very big, only 11 liter (2.9 US gallon if converter is correct?) and are smartpots. I experience the soil dries up rather quick on the sides while the core and bottom are still moist. According to a moist meter, even on the wet side at the bottom.

Yeah, 3 gal is quite small. Going up to 22 L will be good... 5.8 gal.

To be clear, I'm not saying your plants are experiencing root disease... just sharing information.

 

[Poezebeest]

You keep calling it the maximum, but I call it the recommended amount.

I keep calling it that because that's how it says on the bottle (add a maximum of 5 ml/l, every watering). The same goes for all the Plagron nutrients I have, including the CalMag (different amount but same instructions).
Whether the plants is 4 weeks old or 10 weeks old, it's always the same amount.

Lets say I have burned tips because of nute burn, while giving only half the maximum. Wouldn't that mean that even half the maximum is too much?

I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong. Maybe I'm just hardwired because of always reading the same things over and over again.

I'm just going to copy some text from the internet, which is in line with everything I have ever read about nutrients:

Quote: "Many nutrient systems come with instructions to feed your plant more nutrients than most plants actually need. It’s good business for the nutrient companies if you use more nutrients. However, in my experience it’s a good idea to view the feeding charts that come with any nutrient system as the maximum amount of nutrients and actually start with much lower levels. I tend to start with half the recommended amount, and slowly work my way up only if needed."

You can hardly blame me for doing exactly what I see other successful growers do?

 

[Sueet]

Quote: "Many nutrient systems come with instructions to feed your plant more nutrients than most plants actually need. It’s good business for the nutrient companies if you use more nutrients. However, in my experience it’s a good idea to view the feeding charts that come with any nutrient system as the maximum amount of nutrients and actually start with much lower levels. I tend to start with half the recommended amount, and slowly work my way up only if needed."

Why would any company tell you to add TOO much of their product on purpose? That would kill or damage your plants, and then you would think their product is garbage and never buy again. Not a good business model.

Slow and steady always works, of course, but it will never win the race except in the rare case where the rabbit dies. If you are looking to maximize the growth of your plant, start with and stick with the recommended amounts until you have a good reason not to.