Raiven's 1st Indoor Grow - THC Bomb Auto - 2014

[Antics]

Hey stop posting and check those PH levels!

 

[PeeJay]

Excellent job on the DIY box, Raiven. It'll be interesting to get some good pH data. Based on the nice looking new growth on all the plants I'll be surprised if anything is way out of whack. All of the pictures of whacked growth are pictures of the same damaged leaves that you have been posting for a couple of weeks. They won't heal once they are damaged. I think the flush and improved watering practices have solved your issues, for the most part. We will see.

One thing you might want to consider to improve your grow box is rigging up some sort of reflector over the cfls to focus the light downwards onto the plants. There are some great examples of DIY reflectors around made from things like aluminum baking pans. You have the skills. Not doubt you'll come up with something.

 

[Raiven]

hey stop posting and check those ph levels!

yessir!!!!

 

[Raiven]

Excellent job on the DIY box, Raiven. It'll be interesting to get some good pH data. Based on the nice looking new growth on all the plants I'll be surprised if anything is way out of whack. All of the pictures of whacked growth are pictures of the same damaged leaves that you have been posting for a couple of weeks. They won't heal once they are damaged. I think the flush and improved watering practices have solved your issues, for the most part. We will see.

One thing you might want to consider to improve your grow box is rigging up some sort of reflector over the cfls to focus the light downwards onto the plants. There are some great examples of DIY reflectors around made from things like aluminum baking pans. You have the skills. Not doubt you'll come up with something.

Thanks PeeJay...
I hope youre right about things being out of whack (or not being rather)...
I didnt realize that severely damaged leaves wouldnt heal and apologize if the pictures seem redundant...
I felt like some of them were getting worse and wanted to document as much of the progress of this grow as possible...

I have been thinking about something to use as a reflector but havent figured it out quite yet...
I will be making many improvements over time to perfect the box...

 

[PeeJay]

I had a feeling you might not know that the damaged leaves won't heal... Like I said, Raiven, your new growth looks fantastic. You are in the groove.

 

[Raiven]

***QUICK UPDATE***

I did a test of the tap water last night using the new ppm and pH meters...
Please see results below in pictures...Each picture was taken approximately 5 minutes apart...
In the cup is only tap water nothing added...

Today is feeding day!!
So I will get some other tests in including:
-Test runoff first with straight water (no addons)
-Test water and nute mix
-Test soil runoff after nute mix

0:00 - 5:00 minutes - 78 ppm / 7.3 pH
5:01 - 10:00 minutes - 81 ppm / 7.3 pH
10:01 - 15:00 minutes - 89 ppm / 7.2 pH
15:01 - 20:00 minutes - 88 ppm / 7.1 pH

 

[PeeJay]

That is fantastic water, Raiven! Don't mess with it. You will want to mix up a batch of full strength nutes and check the pH of the solution so you can see how far they drop the pH. You should be right in the sweetest spot after mixing.

 

[Raiven]

That is fantastic water, Raiven! Don't mess with it. You will want to mix up a batch of full strength nutes and check the pH of the solution so you can see how far they drop the pH. You should be right in the sweetest spot after mixing.

Thanks PeeJay!!
I was surprised at the pH of the water myself! Even previous tests with the test tube and pH drops it was reading a nice GREEN color which according to the color chart was 7.0...

I cant wait to see the results of the tests tonight...
You think I should give the plants full strength nutes at this point? (this will be the first feeding of FLOWERING nutes ever) Or should I just mix up a gallon with full strength nutes for testing?

Every test I did with the pH drops always came out hellish RED indicating 4.0 - 5.0 pH, including the water and nute mix, the runoff even without nutes mixed in (some said this was due to the nutes already included in the FFLW soil) and the runoff after feeding with nutes as well...

Nervous excited anxious... ETC

Loving this growers lifestyle!!!

Grow On Growers!!!

 

[Raiven]

Got some more GOODIES today!!

Just got in two more temp. / hum. meters...
One for the clone/germ chamber and one for the veg. chamber...

A few more tweaks and addons and well be golden!!

 

[PeeJay]

You think I should give the plants full strength nutes at this point? (this will be the first feeding of FLOWERING nutes ever) Or should I just mix up a gallon with full strength nutes for testing?

I think the big girls are ready for full strength or close to it. For the little one you may want to dilute it a little farther.

Now that you know that your lovely water has a very neutral pH you have a couple of things to consider about your next grow. I saw that you had decided to go with KJC's soiless mix. Keep in mind that with that neutral mix you will need to watch pH carefully. For a soiless mix the ideal acidity of the feed/water is 10x more acidic than it is in a good soil.

The other thing that's great to do with a neutral medium like Pro-Mix is amend it so it is more like a soil. This has a huge advantage over buying off the shelf soil like, FFOF, Happy Frog, or "organic" soils from from home improvement mega world. You can put in whatever you want in the ratios you want and make a really good soil growing medium that will naturally buffer pH as the plant grows, and will support a happy multitude of soil biota. If you do that, then you will never have to pH the water or nutes ever again. You won't have to guess how much or measure nutrients. For the first eight weeks or so all you'll have to do is give them that great water. If you transplant into a bigger pot with a soil mix that is higher in phosphate right before you flower, they will not need food for another several weeks, or even at all.

 

[Raiven]

I think the big girls are ready for full strength or close to it. For the little one you may want to dilute it a little farther.

Now that you know that your lovely water has a very neutral pH you have a couple of things to consider about your next grow. I saw that you had decided to go with KJC's soiless mix. Keep in mind that with that neutral mix you will need to watch pH carefully. For a soiless mix the ideal acidity of the feed/water is 10x more acidic than it is in a good soil.

The other thing that's great to do with a neutral medium like Pro-Mix is amend it so it is more like a soil. This has a huge advantage over buying off the shelf soil like, FFOF, Happy Frog, or "organic" soils from from home improvement mega world. You can put in whatever you want in the ratios you want and make a really good soil growing medium that will naturally buffer pH as the plant grows, and will support a happy multitude of soil biota. If you do that, then you will never have to pH the water or nutes ever again. You won't have to guess how much or measure nutrients. For the first eight weeks or so all you'll have to do is give them that great water. If you transplant into a bigger pot with a soil mix that is higher in phosphate right before you flower, they will not need food for another several weeks, or even at all.

DAMN!! That sounds great!! hahahaha
Can you explain it in full detail by any chance hahahaha...

Heres where I started yesterday...(you will see this update in my second grow journal here: Raivens 2nd Grow)

Yesterday I put the rockwool cubes of my second grow into the new soilless mix...
I mixed the promix with 20% vermiculite and added the reccomended dosage of the rooters earth juice mycorhizae fungi mixture all together

So when I transplant next into my 3 gallon pots what would be my next step
dolemite lime?

I really wanna get this next one working good so I can start trying out super cropping and LST...

Thank you so much for you guidance!!

be sure to see all the details in my other journal shortly, as far as pH and things go in relation to the new soil mix

 

[PeeJay]

Raiven, I was telling you that water was really good. Do you understand what those numbers mean? EC and PPM are basically the same thing. It tells you how much stuff is in your water that is NOT water. The stuff that is not water conducts electricity (EC or electrical conductivity.) EC is converted into PPM by a standard math formula.

To put this in perspective recruit a friend and *Perform a dangerous experiment *

Next replace distilled water with your tap water. Repeat the experiment.

Ok, there are a few more experiments to do. Next add a teaspoon of dissolved table salt to the tub. Of tap water. Have the rube touch the terminals. Ouch!

Mix up a nutrient solution at the recommended ratio with your tap water and put that in the tub. Zap!

Please don’t really do that. The ones with the salt added and the nutes added will give the test subject substantially bigger jolt due to the higher EC resulting from things other than pure water in the tub. It doesn’t matter if it’s table salt or nutrient solution. The EC is higher.

EC or PPM does not tell much about what is in the water, only that there are things in it other than water. Your PPM is very low.

PPM and pH are related but measure two different things. Pure water has a certain pH. Once you add something to the mix it is going to change the pH of the water. Some things will move the pH down. Other things will move the pH up. It makes no difference if the added thing makes it go up or down, it will raise the EC and PPM in either event.

 

[Raiven]

Raiven, I was telling you that water was really good. Do you understand what those numbers mean? EC and PPM are basically the same thing. It tells you how much stuff is in your water that is NOT water. The stuff that is not water conducts electricity (EC or electrical conductivity.) EC is converted into PPM by a standard math formula.

To put this in perspective recruit a friend and *Perform a dangerous experiment *

Next replace distilled water with your tap water. Repeat the experiment.

Ok, there are a few more experiments to do. Next add a teaspoon of dissolved table salt to the tub. Of tap water. Have the rube touch the terminals. Ouch!

Mix up a nutrient solution at the recommended ratio with your tap water and put that in the tub. Zap!

Please don’t really do that. The ones with the salt added and the nutes added will give the test subject substantially bigger jolt due to the higher EC resulting from things other than pure water in the tub. It doesn’t matter if it’s table salt or nutrient solution. The EC is higher.
EC or PPM does not tell much about what is in the water, only that there are things in it other than water. Your PPM is very low.

PPM and pH are related but measure two different things. Pure water has a certain pH. Once you add something to the mix it is going to change the pH of the water. Some things will move the pH down. Other things will move the pH up. It makes no difference if the added thing makes it go up or down, it will raise the EC and PPM in either event.

Well put sir and thank you for such a quick response...
I am starting to get the ppm and pH thing a bit...

One mistake I made yesterday was dropping the TDS meter in the gallon jug of water nute mix

So I only got to do one reading before the thing shorted out...
I left it out and apart overnight to hopefully dry out and still work...

My request was more referring to how do I get the soil mixture to the point you were describing it?
What do I put in to buffer the pH and also have it where I dont need to feed but only water?

And feel free to tell me to go do the research myself LoL
But a hand in the right direction would be much appreciated...
Im not well versed in the addons that can be used in soil to make life easier yet hahahaha

 

[PeeJay]

I wasn't answering your question! I was just writing about PPM and pH to help you understand the numbers at the same time you made your post in an effort to help you understand how good your water quality is.

You can see what I add to my neutral base (I use Sunshine 4 instead of Pro Mix but they are quite similar) on the first page of my outdoor outasight journal. I know you've been there before. You don't necessarily need all of those things, we could discuss what would work relative to your budget after you have a look.

Here's an example of some smoke I grew with only water to pique your interest.

 

[Raiven]

I wasn't answering your question! I was just writing about PPM and pH to help you understand the numbers at the same time you made your post in an effort to help you understand how good your water quality is.

You can see what I add to my neutral base (I use Sunshine 4 instead of Pro Mix but they are quite similar) on the first page of my outdoor outasight journal. I know you've been there before. You don't necessarily need all of those things, we could discuss what would work relative to your budget after you have a look.

Here's an example of some smoke I grew with only water to pique your interest.

I get it now!!! hahahaha
My water is the purest on earth!!!

Youre right I have read your journals and def am going to check it again right now!!!

That example of smoke you grew is effing amazing looking...

Be back in a few after I go memorize your journal hahahaha

 

[PeeJay]

Ok, I decided to replicate the post from my journal here to make things easier. I'm working on a job related project that I'm not really enjoying so spending some time here is a pleasant distraction.

I'm growing in complete organic soil mixes. I use three slightly different mixes; one for seedlings, one for vegetative growth, and one for flowering.

For the seedling mix I combined 3 gallons of Sunshine #4, 1 gallon of FFOF, one gallon of chunky perlite, and 1/2 cup of granulated mixed mycorrizial inoculate. There is plenty of food in the FFOF to feed the seedlings, the Sunshine is not nutrient rich at all, and the perlite improves drainage. Seedlings like this lean, well draining soil.

The base for both the veg and flower soils is the same. Nine gallons of Sunshine #4, three gallons of FFOF, three gallons of worm castings, one and a half gallons of chunky perlite, six cups of Yum-Yum mix, and two cups of Excelerite. Here is a blurb from the Excellerite web-site about this product:

"U.S. Rare Earth Minerals has been blessed with the rights to mine what is widely considered the rarest source of ancient lake bed sediments in Panaca Nevada found to date. A host of scientists recognize it as the richest known source in the world for natural occurring macro, micro and nano nutrients. These minerals and trace elements have been naturally chelated in the presence of Humic and Fulvic acids to produce the powerful combination of Panaca minerals that we call Excelerite; Excelerite is approved by the Organic Materials Review Institude (OMRI) listed, and may be used in certified organic production or food processing and handling according to the USDA National Organic Program Rule."

Here is a picture of some Yum-Yum mix followed by a list of ingredients and what nutrients it provides.

Yum-Yum mix contains:

Alfalfa Meal: Nitrogen; Vitamins-A, B, E, carotene, thiamine, biotin, pantothenic acid, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, choline; 16 amino acids, co-enzymes, sugars, starches, protein fiber.

Cottonseed Meal: Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium.

Kelp Meal: Nitrogen; Potassium; Vitamins-A, B, B2 , C, calcium, pantothenate, niacin, folic acid; minerals-barium, boron, calcium, cobalt, copper, fluorine, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, sodium, strontium, sulfur, zinc; 17 amino acids.

Greensand: Iron, Potassium, Silicate, Phosphorus, 30 trace elements.

Rock Dust: Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Boron, Cobalt.

Rock Phosphate: Phosphorus, Calcium, Trace Elements.

Humate: Salts of Humic Acid - improve soil characteristics and aids in releasing other nutrients to plants in usable forms.

Dry Molasses: Carbohydrates, Sugars, Trace Elements - feeds and attracts beneficial soil organisms.

Guaranteed Analysis -Total Nitrogen (N) - 2.0% - Available Phosphate (P2O5) - 1.0%. Soluble Potash (K2O) - 1.0%.

The Yum-Yum is great stuff - a well balanced amendment. It won't burn plants. I've actually put the stuff in my mouth and tasted it - not bad at all.

The only other thing the veg soil gets is 1 cup of 10-1-1 Mexican bat guano.

The flower soil has no Mexican guano. It gets 1 cup of 0.5-13-0.2 Indonesian bat guano, and 1 cup of soft rock phosphate.

Over the course of a couple of grows I've never seen a deficiency or lockout in these mediums. I don't feed the plants anything else. They just get RO water. Well, I have done some minor top-dressing with a little Yum-Yum once or twice but for the most part just RO water.

 

[Raiven]

Ok, I decided to replicate the post from my journal here to make things easier. I'm working on a job related project that I'm not really enjoying so spending some time here is a pleasant distraction.

I'm growing in complete organic soil mixes. I use three slightly different mixes; one for seedlings, one for vegetative growth, and one for flowering.
For the seedling mix I combined 3 gallons of Sunshine #4, 1 gallon of FFOF, one gallon of chunky perlite, and 1/2 cup of granulated mixed mycorrizial inoculate. There is plenty of food in the FFOF to feed the seedlings, the Sunshine is not nutrient rich at all, and the perlite improves drainage. Seedlings like this lean, well draining soil.
The base for both the veg and flower soils is the same. Nine gallons of Sunshine #4, three gallons of FFOF, three gallons of worm castings, one and a half gallons of chunky perlite, six cups of Yum-Yum mix, and two cups of Excelerite. Here is a blurb from the Excellerite web-site about this product:
"U.S. Rare Earth Minerals has been blessed with the rights to mine what is widely considered the rarest source of ancient lake bed sediments in Panaca Nevada found to date. A host of scientists recognize it as the richest known source in the world for natural occurring macro, micro and nano nutrients. These minerals and trace elements have been naturally chelated in the presence of Humic and Fulvic acids to produce the powerful combination of Panaca minerals that we call Excelerite; Excelerite is approved by the Organic Materials Review Institude (OMRI) listed, and may be used in certified organic production or food processing and handling according to the USDA National Organic Program Rule."
Here is a picture of some Yum-Yum mix followed by a list of ingredients and what nutrients it provides.
Yum-Yum mix contains:
Alfalfa Meal: Nitrogen; Vitamins-A, B, E, carotene, thiamine, biotin, pantothenic acid, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, choline; 16 amino acids, co-enzymes, sugars, starches, protein fiber.
Cottonseed Meal: Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium.
Kelp Meal: Nitrogen; Potassium; Vitamins-A, B, B2 , C, calcium, pantothenate, niacin, folic acid; minerals-barium, boron, calcium, cobalt, copper, fluorine, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, sodium, strontium, sulfur, zinc; 17 amino acids.
Greensand: Iron, Potassium, Silicate, Phosphorus, 30 trace elements.
Rock Dust: Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Boron, Cobalt.
Rock Phosphate: Phosphorus, Calcium, Trace Elements.
Humate: Salts of Humic Acid - improve soil characteristics and aids in releasing other nutrients to plants in usable forms.
Dry Molasses: Carbohydrates, Sugars, Trace Elements - feeds and attracts beneficial soil organisms.
Guaranteed Analysis -Total Nitrogen (N) - 2.0% - Available Phosphate (P2O5) - 1.0%. Soluble Potash (K2O) - 1.0%.
The Yum-Yum is great stuff - a well balanced amendment. It won't burn plants. I've actually put the stuff in my mouth and tasted it - not bad at all.
The only other thing the veg soil gets is 1 cup of 10-1-1 Mexican bat guano.
The flower soil has no Mexican guano. It gets 1 cup of 0.5-13-0.2 Indonesian bat guano, and 1 cup of soft rock phosphate.
Over the course of a couple of grows I've never seen a deficiency or lockout in these mediums. I don't feed the plants anything else. They just get RO water. Well, I have done some minor top-dressing with a little Yum-Yum once or twice but for the most part just RO water.

You are a great man thank you so much for bringing it over here ...
I would love to get that mix together...

I will try and source out the ingredients and see where prices fall around here...

As for what I have started with just the ProMix vermiculite and fungi mixture I have no nutrients and no pH buffer correct??

So for nutes I will have to continue regular feedings with the FF nutes that I have acquired right?
I gave the big plants a full dose last night and the small plant a full dose of the veg nutes...

I would love to be organic about my grows...
Oh how I wish we were neighbors right now hahahaha!!!

 

[PeeJay]

Way earlier in the journal here there was some suggestion that FFOF is too hot for small MJ plants. I use a fraction in my mix so it is not a problem. You would want to add some or something like it to the Pro Mix. It has a nice mineral content and lots of organic matter.

The Yum Yum is great stuff. What I really like about it is that it provides a nice short cut. You could buy separate containers of all the things that are in it, but it would cost a ton and you'd have more than you know what to do with. It is available on Cramazon. It is a regional product that you are not likely to find in stores in your part of the country.

Worm castings are optional. I've used the mix both with and without castings and both work well. The one with added castings does a little better.

The added perlite improves drainage so you are less apt to over water or create a muddy medium. It would be optional, but a nice addition.

The Excellerite is great for buffering and adding all the odd trace elements to the medium. There is another product that works very well called Azomite. Neither is terribly expensive.

Both the guanos are optional. They are a nice addition. Both the high P guano and rock phosphate are what I use to differentiate the veg soil from the flower soil. It's the same as switching to a flowering nute regimen.

All you do is mix the stuff up in the appropriate ratios. Then you can throw away the meter and stop messing and guessing with nutrients.

 

[PeeJay]

For the baby plants in the soilless mix, they don't need much food at all, just like a human baby. We're talking like 1/10th strength once to get them though the first twenty days. I would not be concerned with altering the pH for the babies. Just use tap water.

 

[Raiven]

Day 56
Veg. Day 45 / Bud. Day 6
08-06-14 7:00 pm

LOTS OF INFO IN THIS POST

All the plants are doing very well
Even the Small Plant with its troubles seems to be doing great
---She still has alot of decay on her but the new growth on top looks awesome
---Gave her a feeding yesterday in accordance with FF week 4 soil feeding schedule (all nutes are in tsp/gal)
------BIG BLOOM - 3 tsp
------GROW BIG - 3 tsp
------TIGER BLOOM - 2 tsp
------BOOMERANG - 1 tsp
------OPEN SESAME - 1/4 tsp
------CAL/MAG SUP. - 3 ml
---Shes still getting 18/6 light and 18 - 24 hr fan
---Temp and Hum in the new box are holding well
------Temp.: 75 - 90 deg
------Hum.: 70% - 80%
---1/2 turn everday

The Medium Plant is just lovely
---Still shows all the decay of previous weeks but tops and bud sites and new growth are immaculate
---Gave this girl a feeding yesterday FIRST FLOWERING FEEDING in accordance with week 5 FF soil feeding schedule (all nutes are in tsp/gal)
------BIG BLOOM - 3 tsp
------GROW BIG - 2 tsp
------TIGER BLOOM - 2 tsp
------BOOMERANG - 1 tsp
------MICROBE BREW - 1/2 tsp
------OPEN SESAME - 1/4 tsp
---12/12 light and fan schedule
---1/2 turn everyday
---Temp.: 70 - 90 deg
---Hum.: 50% - 60%

The Large Plant is doing super well
---Still shows all the decay of previous weeks but tops and bud sites and new growth are immaculate
---Topping this plant proved to work quite well as both new tops are flourishing
---Gave this girl a feeding yesterday FIRST FLOWERING FEEDING in accordance with week 5 FF soil feeding schedule (all nutes are in tsp/gal)
------BIG BLOOM - 3 tsp
------GROW BIG - 2 tsp
------TIGER BLOOM - 2 tsp
------BOOMERANG - 1 tsp
------MICROBE BREW - 1/2 tsp
------OPEN SESAME - 1/4 tsp
---12/12 light and fan schedule
---1/2 turn everyday
---Temp.: 70 - 90 deg
---Hum.: 50% - 60%

I did a quick test with the new pH meter on the FFLW soil runoff with no nutes or plants in it...
Sample of soil in cup
Added some pH 7.4 water
RunOff result was 5.2 pH

Same test using my new KJC inspired mix - ProMix HP Rooters fungi mix and vermiculite
RunOff result was 7.2 pH

pH & ppm Test Results: (dropped ppm meter in water/nute mix gallon jug so I only got one reading)
(Keep in mind these plants are still in FFLW soil)
Large Plant
---Water before mix - 7.4 pH & 78 ppm
---Water/Nute mix - 4.0 pH & 150 x10 ppm (I have to check the manual again I forget what x10 means)
---Used 5 tsp of pH UP to get the mix to 6.8 pH
Medium Plant
---Water Before mix - 7.3 pH
---Water/Nute mix - 4.1 pH
---Used 5 tsp of pH UP to get the mix to 6.8 pH
Small Plant
---Water Before mix - 7.1 pH
---Water/Nute mix - 4.8 pH
---Used 5 tsp of pH UP to get the mix to 6.8 pH

RUNOFF pH ResultsKeep in mind these plants are still in FFLW soil)
Large Plant - 4.5 pH
Medium Plant - 4.8 pH
Small Plant - 5.3 pH

pH & ppm Test Results

SMALL PLANT

MEDIUM PLANT

LARGE PLANT

GROUP SHOTS