Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

[cbdhemp808]

Thanks. Yeah, I love that graphic... it's the one I always refer to for the details of the female parts. Thanks for the reminder that it also shows the trichome types.

So, it's interesting in the case of HI-BISCUS, because the strong odor of the leaves is similar to the strong odor of the flowers. First, it's just strong. Second, it must also be similar in composition (terp profile). HI-BISCUS is super bud rot resistant, but not very leaf mold resistant. So now I'm wondering if some strains/phenos that are leaf mold resistant have specific terps produced in the leaf trichomes that are responsible for that. So far, my Blueberry pheno shows the most leaf mold resistance, but low bud rot resistance. The Humboldt Dream has fairly good leaf mold resistance, as well as good bud rot resistance.

I also wonder now if it's typical that leaves will have strong odor if the buds also have strong odor. And, if it's typical that the terp profile for the leaves will be the same or similar to the terp profile for the flowers, for any given strain.

This is great... until now, I really wasn't conscious that leaves also have a terpene profile.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

Update from today in the flower house. We are getting lots of overhead sun, as well as wind and breezes, and lots of rain. I'm really feeling 10 gal. is a magic step forward. The CBD#9 colas are slowly ripening, and the only bud rot I've seen were a few isolated spots which I clipped out (all lower or mid plant), and it seems to be a different manifestation of the rot than what I usually see. This rot is sort of "dry"... not much in the way of fuzzy grey filaments. Mostly just dry and brown. So, it seems the pot size is contributing to some resilience.

Left is CBD#9 in 10 gal, 6 weeks in flower. Right is Humboldt Dream in 10 gal, 25 days in flower. Both are clones.

Humboldt Dream, flowers forming now. 25 days in flower.

CBD#9 top colas. Probably the biggest colas that I've grown of this pheno. Good resin production and nice odor. The plant continues to drink, but I am no longer feeding. I've been plucking off all leaves that show leaf mold. Not a big deal, because she was heavily foliated.

CBD#9, 6 weeks in flower.

CBD#9, 6 weeks in flower.

CBD#9. No sign of bud rot on dead stigmas. Virtually no dead bracts.

 

[Azimuth]

So, it seems the pot size is contributing to some resilience.

That's very interesting. Maybe opens up your play book to go back to some of your favorite strains that didn't make the cut in the smaller pots?

 

[cbdhemp808]

That's very interesting. Maybe opens up your play book to go back to some of your favorite strains that didn't make the cut in the smaller pots?

Yep, I recently planted Seedsman Blueberry in 10 gal, and second attempt at HI-BISCUS in 10 gal. I need to get some more 10 gal pots, then I'll be planting White Widow as well. Unfortunately, Sweet Critical CBD has been in 1 gal. for too long, so not sure if I'll plant that one or re-clone. That's it for now, along with Humboldt Dream, which is my best all-around.

I'm still on track to order the new ones... the ones I researched back in December, looking for the terpinolene-dominant phenos...

Sugar Black Rose *** - sativa pheno (strain is known as 80% indica); THC 18-25%; 4 known phenos, one is sativa.
Durban Poison *** - sativa; THC 15-25%; 4 known phenos, all sativa.
Jack Herer *** - sativa; THC 15-24%; 4 known phenos, one is indica.
Chernobyl *** - sativa; THC 16-22%; at least 2 phenos, one indica, one sativa – maybe 4 phenos.
Agent Orange *** - 50/50; THC 16-22%; two main phenos, at least one is sativa-leaning.
Chemodo Dragon *** - 50/50; THC 24-26+%; two main indica-leaning phenos.
Chemdawg *** - pheno D, indica-leaning; THC 22-25+%; 5 known phenos.

Key: *** sativa pheno; *** sativa leaning pheno; *** indica leaning pheno

 

[cbdhemp808]

I just did a check for all those seeds... looks like I'll have no problem getting them.

I'm particularly stoked about Humboldt CSI's Chemdawg D S1! (can't link it as per forum rules, but you can Google). Also their Big Bad Wolf 2.0 looks great. Also available at Seeds Here Now.

Bob's Chernobyl S1 Slymer Cut looks great. Both Chernobyl and Agent Orange originated with TGA Subcool.

Agent Orange is available from our sponsor North Atlantic...

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Chemodo Dragon is Chemdawg # 4 x Gupta Kush, available from Colorado Seed.

Sugar Black Rose is Critical Mass x Black Domina, available from our sponsors...

Sugar Black Rose | Feminized Cannabis Seeds

Our Sugar Black Rose is, without doubt, one of the tastiest Indicas we have ever laid our hands on. It is the result of crossing ...

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Sugar Black Rose (F) » Seeds

Buy Sugar Black Rose (F) » Seeds » Cannabis Seeds at North Atlantic Seed Co. » BLIMBURN > SUGAR BLACK ROSE (CRITICAL MASS X BLACK DOMINA)

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Buy Sugar Black Rose feminized seeds by Delicious Seeds - Herbies Seeds

Sugar Black Rose fem seeds for sale. High-quality cannabis seeds at reasonable prices. We guarantee at least one free seed with every order. Stealth shipping within 24 hours

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There's so many sellers of Durban Poison and Jack Herer... I'm open to suggestions.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ha ha... not that I can afford all dem beans in one go. I can barely keep the gas tank full this month.

I'll be going for the ones that are the easiest in terms of finding the phenos I'm looking for. Otherwise I'd probably need to have terps tested, and that's expensive here in Hawaii.

Those would be... Sugar Black Rose, the single sativa pheno; Chernobyl, sativa pheno; Agent Orange, sativa-leaning pheno; Chemodo Dragon, indica-leaning; and Chemdawg D, indica-leaning.

Chemdawg D is one of the 5 Chemdawg phenos, and what that means as an S1 seed... well, it's new territory for me. I know S1 means the female plant was "selfed" to produce the seed. But there seems to be some controversy around how much the offspring will deviate from the parent phenotype.

I would probably pick one of each, sativa-dominant, sativa-leaning, and indica-leaning. So, I'd probably start with Sugar Black Rose, Agent Orange, and Chemdawg D. The Chernobyl S1 Slymer cut is tempting, for a sativa, but it all depends on the pheno of the mom, so I'd probably need to have the terps tested.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I can barely keep the gas tank full this month.

correction: replace "full" with "above empty".

 

[cbdhemp808]

Good news on the Slymer phenotype of Chernobyl... HUGE TERPINOLENE.

It's also just called Slymer or Golden Ticket.

Chernobyl = (Trainwreck x Trinity) x Jack the Ripper

Here's one terp profile for Slymer that aligns with others I found:

Terpinolene : 0.530%
Myrcene : 0.257%
Limonene : 0.211%
b-Pinene : 0.135%
Caryophyllene: 0.111%

I'm guessing this will be a super bud rot resistant sativa. Maybe also leaf mold resistant.

Better than searching for the sativa pheno of Sugar Black Rose.

Bob Bitchen's Beans - Chernobyl S1 (Slymer cut). photo: DC Seed Exchange

 

[cbdhemp808]

I would probably pick one of each, sativa-dominant, sativa-leaning, and indica-leaning. So, I'd probably start with Sugar Black Rose, Agent Orange, and Chemdawg D. The Chernobyl S1 Slymer cut is tempting, for a sativa, but it all depends on the pheno of the mom, so I'd probably need to have the terps tested.

OK, so my picks now...

Slymer (pheno of Chernobyl, S1 seed). There's a high probability that the S1 seed will produce a terpinolene-dominant plant. I think I'll go for Agent Orange as well, since I have verified that: two main phenos, one is terpinolene dominant. As for Chemdawg D... disappointing news... I can't verify now that the pheno is terpinolene-dominant. In fact, I can't verify that any of the Chemdawg phenos are terpinolene-dominant. So for now, that one is off the list. As for Chem•odo Dragon, I can't verify the phenos or the terpene profiles, so that one is also off the list.

So, Slymer is a sativa, and Agent Orange is a 50/50, sativa-leaning.

Now the big question is, can I find an indica-leaning pheno of anything that has high terpinolene content. I'll need to look over my research again. One possible I just found yesterday is Pinkleberry, a 50/50 hybrid by Pacific Northwest Roots, but it seems all sellers are currently out of stock. Such a beautiful plant... I'm on the wait list.

Pinkleberry. photo: Seeds for Me

 

[Azimuth]

That's a pretty one. @Jon grew a plant with a pretty picture like that from the seed seller but didn't get the colors. Turns out it is probably only one particular pheno so had to be lucky to get it.

 

[cbdhemp808]

That's a pretty one. @Jon grew a plant with a pretty picture like that from the seed seller but didn't get the colors. Turns out it is probably only one particular pheno so had to be lucky to get it.

Yeah, the photos are alluring. If someone finds a pheno that looks fantastic like this, how then do they sell it? One way is clone only, of course. Then the result will be exactly like the photos, unless there's an environmental factor, such as temperature, which isn't matched. If the breeder produces a seed line, then I think you are right – chances are, only one pheno will be the fantastic one. Another pheno may be somewhat colorful, but not the greatest. So, the seed line is going to produce at least 2 phenos, but possibly up to several. If the seed line isn't stable enough, then you could have random other phenos, thus reducing the chances of replicating the beauty queen.

I know cold weather sometimes brings out the colors in some phenos, but I have no direct experience with that. It just doesn't get very cold here.

HI-BISCUS was supposed to look like this (below), but I just got a green bud plant. I did grow a sativa called Green Mountain Grape, and got two phenos – one green bud, the other with some shades of dark purple.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

Here's an update on the CBD #9 harvest yesterday. This was an amazing plant overall, and great harvest. I think these are the biggest buds I've grown so far, and the most quantity. The big buds were also quite tight. All the top colas had very little bud rot, and whatever I found was very isolated. Lower buds had some rot and larf, but it was isolated. My general feeling is that the plant resisted bud rot very well. The only thing I can point to for this success is the pot size, which I have increased from 6 or 7 gal. to 10 gal. I wouldn't say this was a perfect grow, but it's definitely new territory for me. There were so many buds on the plant, I actually had to leave some lower ones on! I just got through the trimming tonight, but a bit more to do in the 2nd round.

This shot was taken last Saturday. My CBD #9 pheno of Cherry Blossom, 10% CBD.

All the top bud clusters. Nice and tight, very uniform. It's hard for me to describe the odor, but I'll take a shot... not strong, but a bit like piney cleaning liquid with hints of spice, fresh-cut grass, and licorice. Good resin production, but not super sticky.

Next up, Humboldt Dream in 10 gal., but several weeks to go on that. Hopefully I'll have my bud dryer up and running for that one.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I did some research on Grand Daddy Purple last night. It looks very promising... indica-dominant and terp profile shows decent amount of terpinolene. Grand Daddy Black also looks good. Both are readily available in seed form.

In general, I think it's probably very rare to find an indica-dominant pheno with significant amounts of terpinolene, because terpinolene is associated with sativas. There's a lot more 50/50s that show terpinolene.

 

[cbdhemp808]

More research tonight...

It appears that Afghani indica-derived hybrid strains are known for terpinolene content. For example, Northern Lights (NL) – at least some phenos – have significant amounts of terpinolene. NL = Afghani x Thai. It appears that NL may get its terpinolene from Afghani indica genetics, and not necessarily from Thai sativa genetics. So, this is counterintuitive, but is it really true?

Looking at Grand Daddy Purple, the lineage is Purple Urkel x Big Bud. Purple Urkel is said to have Mendo Purps genetics, which are likely from Afghani indica. Big Bud is a cross of an original "USA" (unknown) indica and Northern Lights #1 (pure Afghani indica).

I have been able to verify that Big Bud phenos contain significant terpinolene, as does Northern Lights #5.

Big Bud is pure indica (according to Seedfinder)... there's apparently no sativa in the lineage. Yet it contains significant terpinolene. (Seedfinder says NL #1 is pure indica.)

I also verified that Dr. Atomic Northern Lights is terpinolene-dominant. Atomic NL = Pure Afghani x Hawaiian sativa. Atomic NL is said to be at least 80% indica. The Hawaiian sativa genetics may be contributing terpinolene as well.

Seeds are available for Big Bud, Atomic Northern Lights, and Northern Lights #5. I have confirmed that these are all indicas that contain significant amounts of terpinolene. Big Bud is of course well-known for having huge, green buds. Atomic NL, also green buds. Likewise for NL #5. So, it's not the purple genetics responsible for bringing the terpinolene.

So... I've got some choices beyond Grand Daddy Purple (GDP) now for an indica with high terpinolene: Big Bud, Northern Lights #5, and Atomic NL. These strains have all been around for a long time. Of these, I'd probably go for the highest in terpinolene, which would be Atomic NL. Maybe I'll try both GDP and Atomic NL.

Where did the terpinolene come from in Afghani-derived hybrid strains? It may come from Skunk and Northern Lights genetics, brought in with the hybrid crosses, due to the sativa genetics in Skunk and Northern Lights. But maybe not.

My seed line-up now: Slymer (sativa - pheno of Chernobyl), Agent Orange (50/50, sativa-leaning), Grand Daddy Purple (indica), and Atomic Northern Lights (indica).

 

[cbdhemp808]

Atomic Northern Lights. Indica dominant -and- terpinolene dominant. photo: Seedsman.

Dr. Atomic Northern Lights grow journal. by @retired again dude, 2009.

 

[cbdhemp808]

More research tonight...

It appears that Afghani indica-derived hybrid strains are known for terpinolene content. For example, Northern Lights (NL) – at least some phenos – have significant amounts of terpinolene. NL = Afghani x Thai. It appears that NL may get its terpinolene from Afghani indica genetics, and not necessarily from Thai sativa genetics. So, this is counterintuitive, but is it really true?

Looking at Grand Daddy Purple, the lineage is Purple Urkel x Big Bud. Purple Urkel is said to have Mendo Purps genetics, which are likely from Afghani indica. Big Bud is a cross of an original "USA" (unknown) indica and Northern Lights #1 (pure Afghani indica).

I have been able to verify that Big Bud phenos contain significant terpinolene, as does Northern Lights #5.

Big Bud is pure indica (according to Seedfinder)... there's apparently no sativa in the lineage. Yet it contains significant terpinolene. (Seedfinder says NL #1 is pure indica.)

I also verified that Dr. Atomic Northern Lights is terpinolene-dominant. Atomic NL = Pure Afghani x Hawaiian sativa. Atomic NL is said to be at least 80% indica. The Hawaiian sativa genetics may be contributing terpinolene as well.

Seeds are available for Big Bud, Atomic Northern Lights, and Northern Lights #5. I have confirmed that these are all indicas that contain significant amounts of terpinolene. Big Bud is of course well-known for having huge, green buds. Atomic NL, also green buds. Likewise for NL #5. So, it's not the purple genetics responsible for bringing the terpinolene.

So... I've got some choices beyond Grand Daddy Purple (GDP) now for an indica with high terpinolene: Big Bud, Northern Lights #5, and Atomic NL. These strains have all been around for a long time. Of these, I'd probably go for the highest in terpinolene, which would be Atomic NL. Maybe I'll try both GDP and Atomic NL.

Where did the terpinolene come from in Afghani-derived hybrid strains? It may come from Skunk and Northern Lights genetics, brought in with the hybrid crosses, due to the sativa genetics in Skunk and Northern Lights. But maybe not.

My seed line-up now: Slymer (sativa - pheno of Chernobyl), Agent Orange (50/50, sativa-leaning), Grand Daddy Purple (indica), and Atomic Northern Lights (indica).

@CBDMed asked in his thread, is it the terpinolene or the high amounts of resin/terpenes that's bringing the bud rot resistance?

I think it's both... high resin production, implying high terpene production and strong odor, combined with the presence of significant amounts of terpinolene (aka delta-terpinene). That's my theory for bud rot resistance. In addition, it seems that terpinolene is often accompanied by other "pine terpenes", i.e. alpha and beta pinene, the other terpinenes, and ocimene. I think the presence of all of them is what's contributing to the bud rot resistance (more info I wrote HERE#1). Leaf mold resistance seems to be governed by other terpenes, but I'm not as clear on that. I think myrcene is part of the equation. Lot's more info I wrote about this last November, HERE#2.

In HERE#2 I'm talking about terpinolene and bud rot resistance...

"I think this is why terpinolene is most often associated with sativas. From my charts above, we see that terpinolene has been bred-into indicas and 50/50 hybrids as well. I have a feeling that terpinolene (i.e. delta-terpinene) or gamma-terpinene appear together with alpha-pinene and beta-pinene in cannabis, because of the biochemical processes in cannabis that generate these molecules."

While that underlined part is likely true, in my quoted post above I talk about Big Bud having all indica genetics (according to Seedfinder), yet it reportedly has two phenotypes, one indica and one sativa, and the indica pheno apparently has significant terpinolene (and I'm guessing the sativa as well). I wrote, "there's apparently no sativa in the lineage". In taking a second look today, it's all over the internet that the Big Bud lineage also includes Skunk #1, which includes Mexican and Colombian sativas. In addition, any indica-dominant hybrid with Northern Lights in its lineage may also contain sativa genetics from Thai or Hawaiian, depending on the pheno. According to Seedfinder, Northern Lights #1 is a pure indica, or just about as pure as you can get.

It may be true that the more distant an indica-dominant hybrid is from the landraces, the less chance for the presence of significant amounts of terpinolene.

 

[CBDMed]

@CBDMed asked in his thread, is it the terpinolene or the high amounts of resin/terpenes that's bringing the bud rot resistance?

I think it's both... high resin production, implying high terpene production and strong odor, combined with the presence of significant amounts of terpinolene (aka delta-terpinene). That's my theory for bud rot resistance. In addition, it seems that terpinolene is often accompanied by other "pine terpenes", i.e. alpha and beta pinene, the other terpinenes, and ocimene. I think the presence of all of them is what's contributing to the bud rot resistance (more info I wrote HERE#1). Leaf mold resistance seems to be governed by other terpenes, but I'm not as clear on that. I think myrcene is part of the equation. Lot's more info I wrote about this last November, HERE#2.

In HERE#2 I'm talking about terpinolene and bud rot resistance...

"I think this is why terpinolene is most often associated with sativas. From my charts above, we see that terpinolene has been bred-into indicas and 50/50 hybrids as well. I have a feeling that terpinolene (i.e. delta-terpinene) or gamma-terpinene appear together with alpha-pinene and beta-pinene in cannabis, because of the biochemical processes in cannabis that generate these molecules."

While that underlined part is likely true, in my quoted post above I talk about Big Bud having all indica genetics (according to Seedfinder), yet it reportedly has two phenotypes, one indica and one sativa, and the indica pheno apparently has significant terpinolene (and I'm guessing the sativa as well). I wrote, "there's apparently no sativa in the lineage". In taking a second look today, it's all over the internet that the Big Bud lineage also includes Skunk #1, which includes Mexican and Colombian sativas. In addition, any indica-dominant hybrid with Northern Lights in its lineage may also contain sativa genetics from Thai or Hawaiian, depending on the pheno. According to Seedfinder, Northern Lights #1 is a pure indica, or just about as pure as you can get.

It may be true that the more distant an indica-dominant hybrid is from the landraces, the less chance for the presence of significant amounts of terpinolene.

Wow. Very interesting.
But does that mean that landraces are more mold and rot resistant?? (Just asking, do not know.)

 

[cbdhemp808]

Wow. Very interesting.
But does that mean that landraces are more mold and rot resistant?? (Just asking, do not know.)

I learned that landraces are not the same as wild cannabis. Landraces are genetics that have been manipulated by selective breeding by humans, for hundreds of years in various geographic locations. I think even thousands of years in some cases. So you can think of it as, landraces provide a baseline of the genetics. I mean, all these strains that are available these days are all based on landraces, but most have been highly hybridized and are genetically very distant from the original landraces. So what does that mean in terms of terpenes? I would say that the "modern strains" have been bred primarily for THC potency and flavor. That means that certain terpenes have been selected for, and others selected against. Perhaps terpinolene has been bred out of a lot of these modern strains because of this reason, and for the general reason that, maybe only more recently, has the selective breeding been aimed toward the terpenes themselves. I'm just guessing.

Anyway, from what I have seen, terpinolene is mainly associated with modern sativas and not indicas. What I found in my research of late is that something like Big Bud (indica), which is not far from the landraces, relatively speaking, contains significant terpinolene. Another indica-dominant strain, Atomic Northern Lights, also not far from the landraces, is actually terpinolene-dominant (from what I can tell). Now imagine the long process of people breeding indica hybrids over the decades, and you can imagine that they are crossing with other indicas, and to a lesser extent, sativas, and the outcome is, I think, the terpinolene becomes diminished.

 

[CBDMed]

I learned that landraces are not the same as wild cannabis. Landraces are genetics that have been manipulated by selective breeding by humans, for hundreds of years in various geographic locations. I think even thousands of years in some cases. So you can think of it as, landraces provide a baseline of the genetics. I mean, all these strains that are available these days are all based on landraces, but most have been highly hybridized and are genetically very distant from the original landraces. So what does that mean in terms of terpenes? I would say that the "modern strains" have been bred primarily for THC potency and flavor. That means that certain terpenes have been selected for, and others selected against. Perhaps terpinolene has been bred out of a lot of these modern strains because of this reason, and for the general reason that, maybe only more recently, has the selective breeding been aimed toward the terpenes themselves. I'm just guessing.

Anyway, from what I have seen, terpinolene is mainly associated with modern sativas and not indicas. What I found in my research of late is that something like Big Bud (indica), which is not far from the landraces, relatively speaking, contains significant terpinolene. Another indica-dominant strain, Atomic Northern Lights, also not far from the landraces, is actually terpinolene-dominant (from what I can tell). Now imagine the long process of people breeding indica hybrids over the decades, and you can imagine that they are crossing with other indicas, and to a lesser extent, sativas, and the outcome is, I think, the terpinolene becomes diminished.

Hmmm....
Well, to ask a question of ignorance, one time I read where, if you want mold resistance, choose landrace strains from humid tropical areas (like Thailand) that have lots of humidity in the air, because they selected for what grew best and gave them the most desirable results over time.
Is that not a good strategy?

 

[WillCall]

There is the physical/structural dimension to avoiding bud rot too. Plants with narrow leaves and a more stretchy structure tend to be the evolutionary outcome of humid tropical cannabis. Plants with massive juicy buds/colas always have more tendency to various kinds of fungal attacks. Maui Waui is your classic Hawaiian strain (landrace more or less). Look to that form, or stretchy narrow-leaf phenos of whatever appeals to you, and those plants will do better at getting air moving inside the plant . Do your own crosses with promising strains. Luther Burbank would plant out thousands of seedlings and select a few; this is essentially landrace evolution speeded up to a season or so. We can't plant thousands of seeds, but we can intellegently select the best of what we have. Try to get regular seeds of a good strain so you have a true male to work with and slowly breed for the traits you want. If you have a few good strains the genes are in there. We can breed to select and enhance what is best for a location. The best plant for you and your location probably does not yet exist.