Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

[cbdhemp808]

Soil aeration is very important in a SIP. 1:15 is 6.66%. Typical recommendation is 30-40%.

Wow, that's a lot of perlite. I plan on using coir/perlite mixture in the bottom 5" of medium, with lots of perlite. Two parts of that and one part super soil. The rest of the medium is super soil composed of compost-soil/coco-coir/worm-castings at 1:1:1... that's a lot of coir, which helps aeration too. (1:1:1:0.2 if you include the perlite.)

Given the amount of perlite in the bottom 5", where the air vents are, do you think that will fly, or do you think more perlite in the super soil as well?

EDIT: I think my test above demonstrates just how much air space is present in coir, because I added 1 gal of water to the 1-1/4 gal space at the bottom of the bucket, which was occupied by damp coir (except inside the domes), and the water ran out the drain hole. I think this means that the solid particles of coir make up only 1 qt in the space between the 3 domes, and the rest is air between the particles. Roughly speaking that is, because there is some absorption of water into the coir particles.

 

[CBDMed]

Wow, that's a lot of perlite. I plan on using coir/perlite mixture in the bottom 5" of medium, with lots of perlite. Two parts of that and one part super soil. The rest of the medium is super soil composed of compost-soil/coco-coir/worm-castings at 1:1:1... that's a lot of coir, which helps aeration too. (1:1:1:0.2 if you include the perlite.)

Given the amount of perlite in the bottom 5", where the air vents are, do you think that will fly, or do you think more perlite in the super soil as well?

EDIT: I think my test above demonstrates just how much air space is present in coir, because I added 1 gal of water to the 1-1/4 gal space at the bottom of the bucket, which was occupied by damp coir (except inside the domes), and the water ran out the drain hole. I think this means that the solid particles of coir make up only 1 qt in the space between the 3 domes, and the rest is air between the particles. Roughly speaking that is, because there is some absorption of water into the coir particles.

If this is helpful, I have been running about 40-45% Perlite in the soil.
If you re-condition your soil, Emilya suggested volcanic rock pumice instead of Perlite, as both are inert (but that is your call).

 

[cbdhemp808]

If this is helpful, I have been running about 40-45% Perlite in the soil.
If you re-condition your soil, Emilya suggested volcanic rock pumice instead of Perlite, as both are inert (but that is your call).

Thanks. I'm still in info collection mode. That seems like a huge amount of perlite to me. I mean, I made 15 gal of super soil, and added 1 gal of perlite. Or maybe it was 1.5 gal. Anyway, 40% would be 6 gal 10 gal of perlite. That would displace a lot of nutrient-dense super soil. (The compost soil + worm castings would be diluted with 40% perlite, meaning it would be only 60% as "potent".) I don't know, maybe I will increase the perlite... maybe to 3 gal. I have just never used so much perlite... it's a foreign concept to me.

My new soil mix is 1/3 coir... that's a lot of coir, which is also full of air. From my test above, I calculate that the coir is 66% air. That's damp coir that was then completely saturated in water, meaning the water largely filled the air space of the coir. That was my test... put damp coir in the bottom 5" of the bucket and add a gallon of water to the tube.

The way I think of it is this... a super soil that is 1 part coir, 1 part compost soil, 1 part worm castings, and 2 parts perlite (i.e. 40%) is basically not super soil anymore—it's 60% not soil. It's starting to feel almost like a soil-less medium, meaning dependent on fertigation. My sense of an organic, living super soil is where you create a happy medium (pun intended) that serves as a matrix for nutrients, water, and biological activity in the root zone. In other words, a coherent substrate that's ideal for the roots and the microbes. There's an ideal amount of air needed in that space, and an ideal amount of water.

EDIT: corrections in red

 

[CBDMed]

Thanks. I'm still in info collection mode.

I get it. From here it looks like you are collecting information and making plans. You seem like you are in Inventor mode.
Some might criticize inventor mode, and it has its pitfalls, but it also often has great spinoffs.

That seems like a huge amount of perlite to me.

Me, too!!! it seems like too much!
And still...

I mean, I made 15 gal of super soil, and added 1 gal of perlite. Or maybe it was 1.5 gal. Anyway, 40% would be 6 gal of perlite. That would displace a lot of nutrient-dense super soil. (I think it would displace 25% of the compost soil + worm castings). I don't know, maybe I will increase the perlite... maybe to 3 gal. I have just never used so much perlite... it's a foreign concept to me.

I know exactly what you are talking about!
It occurred to me that I was effectively making just slightly over half strength super soil, because I was diluting everything by 40 or 45%! ("so how is that super??")
So then I was thinking about the forum where they roll things up. There are plenty of people there who do recondition super soil. And everyone over there is saying that they feel fine to mix super soil double or even triple strength no problem, they are saying that you just want to let it cook for longer (like three months).
I do not necessarily understand why cooking for three months is better than cooking for one or two months, because I think one month is plenty of time for stuff like bloodmeal to cook!, But that is what the experienced super soil reconditioner people are saying on a forum where they roll things up.

I understand it's a big shift in thinking. It's still freaks a little bit, and I am already growing in it!

My present batch of super soil is exactly original formula Subcool, exactly original strength. I am diluting by 40 or 45% with the Perlite.
This is my first test experiment with photos to see how we do.
it occurs to me that it will be different when I go to recondition this soil, because it already has 40–45% Perlite in it!
That being the case, instead of mixing original strength and then cutting it down by 40–45%, when I recondition this soil, it will already have the perlite in it, so when I re-add the nutrients it should come back to the original Strength. Does that make sense?

My new soil mix is 1/3 coir... that's a lot of coir, which is also full of air.

Ahhh.... with coco coir it might be different if it handles air differently. I am not the expert and I'm not the person to ask, but maybe you might need somewhat less perlite, if your coir already adds aeration??
(Sorry, I am not sure and do not know.)

From my test above, I calculate that the coir is 66% air. That's damp coir that was then completely saturated in water, meaning the water largely filled the air space of the coir. That was my test... put damp coir in the bottom 5" of the bucket and add a gallon of water to the tube.

Ok. Sorry, but I have zero experience with coir. I have never used it as a substrate, so I can not advise you in this area.
(Apple voice dictation is giving me trouble this morning.)

The way I think of it is this... a super soil that is 1 part coir, 1 part compost soil, 1 part worm castings, and 2 parts perlite (i.e. 40%) is basically not super soil anymore—it's 60% not soil. It's starting to feel almost like a soil-less medium, meaning dependent on fertigation.

I can understand why you would feel that way.
If this is helpful, does it change your thinking if you add the Perlite before you add Nutrients?
Or not so much?

My sense of an organic, living super soil is where you create a happy medium (pun intended) that serves as a matrix for nutrients, water, and biological activity in the root zone. In other words, a coherent substrate that's ideal for the roots and the microbes. There's an ideal amount of air needed in that space, and an ideal amount of water.

I am far from an expert, I am just learning myself, but I see you analyzing things, and trying to figure things out, so I think you are on it, gro.
I understand your desire to want to analyze things, so that you're not just "following a formula" but that you are aware of what parameters you are modifying for your grow environment.
I was looking for a forum where they use both super soil and SIP or SWICK. I could not find that anywhere else, so I think to stay here on 420 because the people are very knowledgeable and helpful. (Maybe it is just one man's opinion, but it seems like a much nicer environment than the forum where they roll things up.)

Sorry, I hope something in there is helpful.

 

[cbdhemp808]

zzzz

 

[CBDMed]

zzzz

Sorry, did I bore you?
It was not my intention to bore you. (I thought I was trying to help.)
If I am boring you, I will go.
Best,

 

[cbdhemp808]

It was 3:30am and I was turning into a keyboard zombie... needed to sleep. Thanks for your input.

Fyi, I am no longer reconditioning my soil... planning to start with all fresh ingreds going forward. Also, I don't cook my super soil. The three main equal parts are very aged compost soil, coir, and worm castings. The ferts are all either straight minerals or aged (e.g. bat guano). The question now is about aeration, and I'm leaning toward the 1/3 coir being the primary aeration. I think I figured out that damp coir, by itself, is over 60% air. What happens when it's added to a soil mixture is of course a different matter, but I think the key is that the particles are relatively large and they don't break down (at least for a long time). They also absorb and release water.

 

[Azimuth]

It was 3:30am and I was turning into a keyboard zombie... needed to sleep. Thanks for your input.

Fyi, I am no longer reconditioning my soil... planning to start with all fresh ingreds going forward. Also, I don't cook my super soil. The three main equal parts are very aged compost soil, coir, and worm castings. The ferts are all either straight minerals or aged (e.g. bat guano). The question now is about aeration, and I'm leaning toward the 1/3 coir being the primary aeration. I think I figured out that damp coir, by itself, is over 60% air. What happens when it's added to a soil mixture is of course a different matter, but I think the key is that the particles are relatively large and they don't break down (at least for a long time). They also absorb and release water.

That's cool. Just wanted to put it on your radar so you'd be aware.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I just did an interesting test...

I added 5" of coco coir in the bottom of the bucket ("R" zone), to fill in around and cover the domes. Then I slowly added 1 gal of water down the tube, in a steady stream. By the time I had emptied my 1 gal container into the tube, a little bit of water was just starting to seep out of the drain hole that the drain tube goes through. I added maybe 1 cup more water, and it immediately came out the drain tube. So, transfer of water out of D1 into D2, D3, and the intervening space, works as expected very quickly. Another dynamic here is that the coir is absorbing water, so some of the 1 gal added is getting soaked up by the coir. Strangely, with the drain hole at 3-1/2" from the bottom of the bucket, this is at the 1-1/4 gal mark. So how could 1 gal of water added start seeping out the 1-1/4 gal mark? Because the coir itself is taking up space in the 1-1/4 gal volume—i.e. the water only permeates the air space between the coir particles. In other words, a volume of 1/4 gal (i.e. 1 quart) of the medium is impervious to water (after initial soaking-in), thus reducing the volume to be filled to roughly 1 gal.

This is gonna work!

My plan is to use a mixture of coir and perlite for the "R" zone, but I may add 2 parts of that to 1 part super soil, for the final mixture... something like that. Lots of perlite.

UPDATE: This was setting overnight. I tipped the bucket slightly today and water ran out the drain tube. So, damp coir in an empty reservoir, with water then added to fill the reservoir, doesn't absorb much water.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'm eyeing the two clones of the #9 CBD pheno for the comparison test between the new Triforce SIP and #7 nursery pot (~6.5 gal) filled to the 4.4 gal mark (same quantity of medium as the SIP). I need to let them grow a bit more in 1 gal. This pheno is very robust and the last harvest in 10 gal is still fairly fresh in my mind... it was probably the best harvest of all time for me (HERE)... big colas, well developed, lots of resin, nice and ripe, and good resistance to bud rot. If the SIP can beat that I will be *very* impressed.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'm also eyeing two HI-BISCUS clones, but I'm worried they are still "off" somehow, due to the grandma that had the systemic root pathogen.

I just found this photo from 5/29/23, which is my best/only photo of my original HI-BISCUS clone line before the root pathogen. In fact, this is probably the grandma, prior to the onset of the pathogen. To be honest, I think at this point she already isn't looking great. I think the leaves of the new clones look different... smaller with smaller leaflets, but it's too soon to tell because they are still very young. This photo will be my reference point...

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'm also eyeing two HI-BISCUS clones, but I'm worried they are still "off" somehow, due to the grandma that had the systemic root pathogen.

As of today, they're lookin' pretty good, and showing sativa morphology...

HI-BISCUS clone (sativa) vs. clone of Cherry Blossom CBD #9 pheno (indica).

 

[JW333]

@cbdhemp808 thanks for starting this thread. I've learned some unexpected things from reading it's entirety. I'm eager to see how the HI-BISCUS ultimately finishes in your quest. So far, I'm seriously considering running it next year.

Anyway, I see you use peroxide to combat mold. Since it’s mostly water; wouldn’t the added water contribute to mold issues when applied during flowering? Seems like adding water to an already humid environment would invite mold.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey JW and welcome to the forum!

@cbdhemp808 thanks for starting this thread. I've learned some unexpected things from reading it's entirety. I'm eager to see how the HI-BISCUS ultimately finishes in your quest. So far, I'm seriously considering running it next year.

Yeah, it's been quite the journey, and I've got several more seed candidates identified... when I can afford to buy them. I was really amazed by HI-BISCUS... it was a game-changer and proved that indeed there are strains/phenos that are very resistant to even our high levels of fungus/mold here in tropical Hawaii. I'm gearing up now to do a comparison grow of two identical HI-BISCUS clones, one in a SIP bucket, the other in a standard nursery pot. I'll post that soon as a separate grow journal.

Anyway, I see you use peroxide to combat mold. Since it’s mostly water; wouldn’t the added water contribute to mold issues when applied during flowering? Seems like adding water to an already humid environment would invite mold.

I actually decided to no longer use it, keeping with my commitment to just grow the strains/phenos that are naturally resistant. Leaf mold is a big problem here (in additional to bud rot), and I don't think I've found a strain/pheno yet that is super leaf mold resistant. Humboldt Dream shows some resistance. Lately I've just been plucking the leaves that show leaf mold infection. I think it's helpful, because it removes the source of spores from the grow. Some strains seem particularly susceptible to powdery mildew (PM), and I won't grow those anymore.

In addition to natural resistance, I've also found that the healthier the plants are going into late flower, the less chance of bud rot and leaf mold. The main factor there, I've found, is pot size, which is why I increased to 10 gal. With the SIPs I'm hoping to get that kind of health in a 5 gal. bucket with 4.4 gal. of medium in it. I feel like I'm still in the early stages of understanding this aspect of avoiding fungus/mold... i.e. plant health going into late flower. Nonetheless, as shown with HI-BISCUS, some strains/phenos are just super resistant even if conditions are not 100% favorable as the plant matures.