Breeder's lab tests are done on plants grown indoors under environmentally controlled conditions. It's not an easy feat to come close to their numbers.
Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow
- Thread starter cbdhemp808
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #342
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Greetings Growmies,
Here's an update and some pics from yesterday and today in the flower house.
Friday I wrote:
On Sunday I had the bright idea to use beeswax to make a reservoir around the stem. I found some old chunks of beeswax I saved in a small glass jar. I melted them using a double boiler, and poured into a small rectangular glass pyrex container, to make a thin sheet of wax. I smeared some shea butter in the bottom of the container, so the wax wouldn't stick to the glass. The sheet of wax lifted right out, but I soon found out it would need to be worked with my hands while still warm. So I made a ball and started squeezing it, and then dashed back to the greenhouse.
Worth noting also that I witnessed a bee swarm on my land today.
Did I just invent a new thing? A "stem goblet". I formed the beeswax into a thin sheet while still warm and pliable, then wrapped it around the stem and flared the top outward. Then, before squeezing the base of the goblet firmly to the stem, I adjusted it into the right position. The jars contain Mikrobs solution (LEFT) and aerated worm compost tea made with strong infusions of horsetail and willow bark (RIGHT).
Kinda looks like a chanterelle mushroom? ...with a cannabis plant growing out of it.
The mixture is probably about 5:1 compost tea and Mikrobs solution. The tea provides substantial amounts of salicylic acid and silica. I was going for the trichoderma species in the Mikrobs. Lots of beneficial microbes.
It'll be interesting to see if the level of liquid goes down, which could be a good indication it's seeping into the stem.
My legacy CBG (left) and CBD #18 (right) in 5 gal pots, after pruning. They are both heavily foliated phenos, but the #18 especially so.
The Blueberry clone in 5 gal. continues to do well and is now flowering. This shot was taken today after pruning. I gave her another dose of Mikrobs.
Blueberry clone, about 12 days in flower.
Grape Ape clone in 7 gal. pot, around 5th week in flower. Flowers have a sweet grape fragrance. She seems to have responded well to the two doses of foliar spray of the aerated worm compost tea with microbes, salicylic acid, and silica. I also treated the soil again with Mikrobs.
Grape Ape
Grape Ape. Some stigmas just starting to turn brown.
Here's an update and some pics from yesterday and today in the flower house.
Friday I wrote:
On Sunday I had the bright idea to use beeswax to make a reservoir around the stem. I found some old chunks of beeswax I saved in a small glass jar. I melted them using a double boiler, and poured into a small rectangular glass pyrex container, to make a thin sheet of wax. I smeared some shea butter in the bottom of the container, so the wax wouldn't stick to the glass. The sheet of wax lifted right out, but I soon found out it would need to be worked with my hands while still warm. So I made a ball and started squeezing it, and then dashed back to the greenhouse.
Worth noting also that I witnessed a bee swarm on my land today.
Did I just invent a new thing? A "stem goblet". I formed the beeswax into a thin sheet while still warm and pliable, then wrapped it around the stem and flared the top outward. Then, before squeezing the base of the goblet firmly to the stem, I adjusted it into the right position. The jars contain Mikrobs solution (LEFT) and aerated worm compost tea made with strong infusions of horsetail and willow bark (RIGHT).
Kinda looks like a chanterelle mushroom? ...with a cannabis plant growing out of it.
The mixture is probably about 5:1 compost tea and Mikrobs solution. The tea provides substantial amounts of salicylic acid and silica. I was going for the trichoderma species in the Mikrobs. Lots of beneficial microbes.
It'll be interesting to see if the level of liquid goes down, which could be a good indication it's seeping into the stem.
My legacy CBG (left) and CBD #18 (right) in 5 gal pots, after pruning. They are both heavily foliated phenos, but the #18 especially so.
The Blueberry clone in 5 gal. continues to do well and is now flowering. This shot was taken today after pruning. I gave her another dose of Mikrobs.
Blueberry clone, about 12 days in flower.
Grape Ape clone in 7 gal. pot, around 5th week in flower. Flowers have a sweet grape fragrance. She seems to have responded well to the two doses of foliar spray of the aerated worm compost tea with microbes, salicylic acid, and silica. I also treated the soil again with Mikrobs.
Grape Ape
Grape Ape. Some stigmas just starting to turn brown.
Wastei
Well-Known Member
You will get more of the good stuff in at pH 5.8. The microbes doesn't help much in foliar application for uptake while correct pH does. I would separate the two and do one microbe tea/horsetail and one salicylic tea.Here's a sample of the finished, double-filtered aerated worm compost tea, with concentrated horsetail and willow bark infusions added. Final ppm was 480, and pH 8.0. I diluted with rain water at 1:1 ratio, in my 1 gal pump sprayer, and thoroughly sprayed all my plants in flower. I decided not to use any liquid soap with that. I feel like there was microbial activity in the tea, due to bubbles formed on the top of the tea in the brewer, and because of the consistency of the tea.
Probably better to do anaerobic teas with sugar for horsetail, the fermentation will help break down the silicate to make it available for uptake. You can also do it without sugars but it will take longer for the fermentation process.
I make comfrey, horsetail and nettle anaerobic teas in the spring for the vegetable garden. You have to dilute it way down and it smells like death!
Salicylic acid is effective against fungal diseases but will also kill off microbial life. Cheers!
- Thread starter
- #344
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Yes, I concluded that I should separate these treatments...
#1... adjust pH for foliar uptake
#2... K-sulfate solution has neutral pH (?)... adjust down
#3... break this one into two...
#3... nutritive - adjust pH for uptake
#4... microbial (not pH adjusted - meant to colonize leaf surfaces)
- Thread starter
- #345
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Interesting... my horsetail concentrate came in at 5.8 pH. The willow bark concentrate was 6.4 pH.
Apparently the silica in horsetail tea is already bioavailble, because it's already in the silicic acid form. Horsetail is also high in salicylate, in the form of methyl salicylate. But I think the willow bark is much higher... dunno the numbers off hand.
See my posts HERE and HERE.
I have yet to make an anaerobic tea... only hot water infusions and actively aerated compost tea. What are your impressions re: aerobic process for microbes digesting and pulling out nutrients and making them more bioavailable? Bringing in @Azimuth and @Danishoes21.
That's what I suspected, but I let my aerated compost tea brew for another day and ppm increased a little, pH increased slightly, and the liquid was quite viscous. I think that must mean microbial growth. (I'm referring to my recent tea where I added 1 qt each of both horsetail and willow bark concentrated infusions.)
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Greetings Growmies,
Here's an update and some pics from yesterday and today in the flower house.
Friday I wrote:
On Sunday I had the bright idea to use beeswax to make a reservoir around the stem. I found some old chunks of beeswax I saved in a small glass jar. I melted them using a double boiler, and poured into a small rectangular glass pyrex container, to make a thin sheet of wax. I smeared some shea butter in the bottom of the container, so the wax wouldn't stick to the glass. The sheet of wax lifted right out, but I soon found out it would need to be worked with my hands while still warm. So I made a ball and started squeezing it, and then dashed back to the greenhouse.
Worth noting also that I witnessed a bee swarm on my land today.
Did I just invent a new thing? A "stem goblet". I formed the beeswax into a thin sheet while still warm and pliable, then wrapped it around the stem and flared the top outward. Then, before squeezing the base of the goblet firmly to the stem, I adjusted it into the right position. The jars contain Mikrobs solution (LEFT) and aerated worm compost tea made with strong infusions of horsetail and willow bark (RIGHT).
Kinda looks like a chanterelle mushroom? ...with a cannabis plant growing out of it.
The mixture is probably about 5:1 compost tea and Mikrobs solution. The tea provides substantial amounts of salicylic acid and silica. I was going for the trichoderma species in the Mikrobs. Lots of beneficial microbes.
It'll be interesting to see if the level of liquid goes down, which could be a good indication it's seeping into the stem.
My legacy CBG (left) and CBD #18 (right) in 5 gal pots, after pruning. They are both heavily foliated phenos, but the #18 especially so.
The Blueberry clone in 5 gal. continues to do well and is now flowering. This shot was taken today after pruning. I gave her another dose of Mikrobs.
Blueberry clone, about 12 days in flower.
Grape Ape clone in 7 gal. pot, around 5th week in flower. Flowers have a sweet grape fragrance. She seems to have responded well to the two doses of foliar spray of the aerated worm compost tea with microbes, salicylic acid, and silica. I also treated the soil again with Mikrobs.
Grape Ape
Grape Ape. Some stigmas just starting to turn brown.
Very interesting method and/or invention. I haven’t seen this before I am all eyes. If I understood correctly you expect the liquid to be absorbed by the stem at that point. That could make the plant produce adventitious roots at that point to absorb the nutrient rich liquid. My only experience with adventitious roots has happened last season when I up potted very mature plants and did a deep planting more than 6 inches of lollipop stem went in the ground, when harvest came I checked the root system and had roots coming out of the stem;
Looking forward to seeing what you have as result.
On the Willow tea subject; I have been foliar feeding almost 2 times a week all my plants, including veggies. First couple times I diluted slightly (no accurate measure sorry). Now I I’m not diluting and going 1litre Willow tea+1 litre horsetail/comfrey, and I am spraying all the plant, up and down leaf and stem and 3 inch around the base. I haven’t seen a negative reaction on the contrary the plants look incredibly glossy and healthy after foliar application.
I may add the weather conditions are on my side as no rain means no high humidity so spores and fungal disease aren’t having a good time.
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Interesting... my horsetail concentrate came in at 5.8 pH. The willow bark concentrate was 6.4 pH.
Apparently the silica in horsetail tea is already bioavailble, because it's already in the silicic acid form. Horsetail is also high in salicylate, in the form of methyl salicylate. But I think the willow bark is much higher... dunno the numbers off hand.
See my posts HERE and HERE.
I have yet to make an anaerobic tea... only hot water infusions and actively aerated compost tea. What are your impressions re: aerobic process for microbes digesting and pulling out nutrients and making them more bioavailable? Bringing in @Azimuth and @Danishoes21.
That's what I suspected, but I let my aerated compost tea brew for another day and ppm increased a little, pH increased slightly, and the liquid was quite viscous. I think that must mean microbial growth. (I'm referring to my recent tea where I added 1 qt each of both horsetail and willow bark concentrated infusions.)
I find that anaerobic teas give me the bacteria that I am looking for as the lack of oxygen will make it harder for the oxygen fed to thrive in the teas. Eliminating extra oxygen has to have an effect inversely proportional to the effects of adding extra oxygen. It’s just a matter of knowing what you look for in result.
Aerobic or anaerobic comfrey, horsetail and nettle will give out a smell that is pretty pungent, but plants thrive sooo much with this sprayed or watered on them.
And how do you make it? You using leaves? Stems? Both?
- Thread starter
- #349
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input.
My experience with anaerobic vs. aerobic (in general) is that usually anything that rots that is anaerobic smells bad. My aerated worm compost tea always smells good. My understanding is that aerobic always/primarily produces good microbes. I don't think either of my two cannabis cultivation books mention anything about anaerobic teas.
Please correct me if I'm wrong... an anaerobic ferment is a quick way to get the benefits of microbes breaking down the material, drawing out the nutrients, and making the nutrients more bioavailable. When the liquid is given to the plants, the microbes die when exposed to the air (sooner or later). Or, are you going for the "facultative anaerobes" that can also survive in the presence of oxygen?
- Thread starter
- #350
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Another member here said the same thing. I'm not planning on leaving the liquid there very long. Today I notice a slight decrease in the liquid level, so perhaps some has soaked in. The point is to get the beneficial salicylic acid into the plant tissues at that point, and perhaps also the beneficial microbes including trichoderma which is fungus-killing. It's totally experimental. Next I'm thinking of removing that liquid and adding aloe juice... probably tomorrow.
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
This is how I make it;
I first look for the closest willow tree to the area I am growing. This is because I want the spores and yeast/bacteria from around my area.
Them I harvest fresh material that includes stems, leaf, and branches. No bark I don’t need it as it takes longer to break down.
When I harvest I cut the weeping stems with the leaves and keep it whole.
I don’t wash or do anything extra with the organic matter. I harvest a bag of old dead willow leaves at the base of the tree because I want the leaf mold.
Once I have a pound of fresh and dead material I stuff a 20 litre liquid container or jerry can with all the organic material. I don’t cut it I literally just stuff the jerry can.
After everything is inside the container I fill up with rain water, and if I want to add a booster I would use 100 grms of worm casting and 50 grms of organic sprouted barley syrup. If I need a wetting agent I will use a tea spoon of Xhantan gum (it’s a polysaccharide and has a wide variety of uses).
I then put the lid on and leave at room temperature or inside the greenhouse, or leave the container forgotten, this way you don’t have to smell it.
I go for a perpetual tea that last me the entire season, this means I harvest every other month a fresh batch of organic material and add it to the existing tea, keep adding rain water as the season progresses.
That is how I make all my teas; reason I call them anaerobic is because they are stagnant bodies of water with slim to none air entry point, so very less chances of brewing aerobic respiration, it’s a anaerobic fermentation. Just like sourkraute or kimchi, kamboucha… these are all examples of anaerobic fermentation, lactic fermentation… we consume anaerobic fermented goods and they are super healthy for us. Same goes for our plants.
I hope this helps
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
My science doesn’t go as far as to be able to tell you if in fact anaerobic fermented foods, liquids or teas lose their anaerobic properties as soon as they make contact with oxygen. I would think NO, and this is just based on my observations and experience using only anaerobic teas. I have been using them for the past 5 years without any problem, I eat the food from the garden and never had E.coli or any food intoxication. I do wash all my veggies and cannabis before consuming.
I also would like to make a statement; I don’t use fresh animal manure, I make green manure which is basically all my favorite weeds in rain water soaking for endless weeks until they disintegrate and become liquid. Using fresh cow, horse or chicken manure has a very high risk of contamination, I would suggest anyone making compost tea out of fresh animal excrement please wash your hands and have bio security measures because you can get very ill from ingesting this water.
That being said I would like to share this link and hopefully everyone doing aerobic and anaerobic teas could have an better understanding to what is the result to be expected.
Compost Tea Recipe
Learn how to make organic fertilizer using a compost tea recipe.
www.wildernesscollege.com
- Thread starter
- #353
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Thanks... I was under the impression those were aerobic cultures. So... I just looked it up... Lactobacillus species for example are facultative anaerobes. They can grow in either aerobic or anaerobic environments. In contrast, obligate anaerobes cannot grow in the presence of free oxygen.
I know for a fact that good kombucha can be brewed with only a cheesecloth covering the container. There can be plenty of exposure to the air when bottling, and the fermentation will continue.
I haven't made much kimchi, but my impression is that lactobacillus from the air, and from the cabbage leaf surfaces will colonize the mixture and out-compete other bacteria. They produce lactic acid and thrive in an acidic environment. This is what gives yogurt and other foods their sour taste.
Generally, aerated compost tea is considered good because the oxygenation will tend to support colonies of "good bacteria" not "bad bacteria"... although this isn't 100%. In a 2015 study of aerated compost tea, they found: "dominant bacterial genera were analyzed as Bacillus (63.0%), Ochrobactrum (13.0%), Spingomonas (6.0%)...".
I don't see any reason why lactobacillus wouldn't also grow in aerated compost tea. There are many species... around 260.
When you consider all the species of bacteria that may be present in any given aerated compost tea, or anaerobic ferment, I think it would be quite complex to understand which are the ones that are particularly beneficial to plants. And there is also the added complexity of application to root zone vs. the above-ground plant surfaces (the phyllosphere).
It's interesting to note that the 4 beneficial soil bacteria in Recharge and Mikrobs are all from the Bacillus genus.
I just found this one... the genus, Pseudomonas, which are aerobic and naturally occurring in the cannabis microbiome. Some are beneficial, some are not...
"... beneficial Pseudomonas spp. are ubiquitous in soils and competitively colonize all compartments of the plant microbiome, including the soil close to the roots (rhizosphere), the surface of aerial organs (phyllosphere), and the inner plant tissues (endosphere). The host plants, in turn, benefit from growth- and health-promoting effects including improved nutrient availability, increased tolerance to abiotic stresses, and repression of pests and diseases by antibiosis, competition, and elicitation of induced systemic resistance (ISR)...
Many of the numerous studies that started to unravel the cannabis microbiome in recent years have consistently identified Pseudomonas spp. as major components of the cannabis rhizosphere, phyllosphere and endosphere communities..."
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the information; I think both teas have benefits. But there is a lack of science behind many of the studies and papers out there. I just found this writer with interesting information;
And then their is a section fact sheets and study cases;
Fact Sheets & Case Studies | Linda Chalker-Scott | Washington State University
Fact Sheets & Case Studies Horticultural Fact Sheets Compost Tea: Miracle Cure or Marketing Gimmick? (pdf) See also The Myth of Compost Tea Part II: Disease Suppression (pdf) Wood Chip Mulch Improves Plant Establishment and Survival (pdf) Horticultural Techniques for Successful Plant...
puyallup.wsu.edu
It really seems to be something newly explored by science the whole biochemistry behind plants and plants immune system.
I totally support trial, observation and if results are positive we don’t really need science to back it up. Seems like science is behind on this matter.
- Thread starter
- #355
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Lactobacillus species are facultative anaerobes, meaning they can grow in the presence of free oxygen. So, lactobacilli will not die in the presence of oxygen; however, other anaerobe species (the obligate ones) would die in the presence of oxygen.
I'm starting to get the impression that it's the facultative anaerobes and aerobes that are the important bacteria for plants. Note that facultative bacteria are not always consider anaerobes – they are the "intermediate zone" of bacteria, "able to change their mode of respiration from aerobic to anaerobic and vice versa."
The genera mentioned in the following article, section "Beneficial Anaerobic Bacteria," are in fact all facultative...
"If you are familiar with the Japanese Bokashi composting system, then you have already used these.
It encompasses Lactobacillus (milk bacteria), Rhodopseudomonas (purple non-sulfur bacteria), Streptococcus, which are often the most common bacterial bloom found in soils, and Saccharomyces, which is a type of yeast."
I don't use any animal manure in my cannabis grow, except for bat guano, which is aged and dried. I think it's generally much better to use composted animal manures, because there's all sorts of beneficial microbes present, as well as other beneficial substances, such as humates and fulvates, and enzymes. (Worm compost contains these enzymes: cellulase, amylase, invertase, protease and urease.)
Anecdotally, I put my Jadam water extracts directly into my SIP reservoir with none of the issues others have had with aerobic teas using them that way. Mine are pretty well fermented by the time I use them so maybe using them in that form really does make a difference.
- Thread starter
- #357
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
What kind of issues? Maybe it was a pH problem?
What kind of microbes do hydro growers introduce to their reservoirs?
Wastei
Well-Known Member
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, what's in SouthernAG GFF or Hydroguard.
- Thread starter
- #359
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Hmm... aerobic.
Also found in Roots Organics Oregonism XL, "for use in soil/hydroponics"...
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus pumilus, Bacillus simplex, Bacillus subtilis, Pseudomonas fluorescens
The ones marked in green are also found in both Mikrobs and Recharge.
I think all Bacillus species are aerobic. Pseudomonas fluorescens is a facultative anaerobe.
Down to Earth's Root Zone product contains:
Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus pumilus, Bacillus thuringiensis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Pseudomonas chlororaphis, Pseudomonas fluorescens
Wastei
Well-Known Member
You only want single strain Bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydro. Bacillus subtilis promotes pythium root rot and has no application in water cultures.