Pruning effects on yield?

[Barney86]

BeanTownFan420,

There was a question on yields so we prolly touched just about every aspect on it.

I could ask another question to maybe bring up and turn on a light bulb.

How do plants uptake nutrients?

I mean really how do the nutrients get from the soil to the plants flowers (assuming this is the part of the plant we want to actually harvest)?

Pretty sure 420% that its the leaves that do all the heavy lifting. See what I did there?

Hint = transpiration.

fascinating science.

There's a bit more too it than its the leaves. Just as much to do with the VPD in the grow space. If the air pressure isn't right then they can't sweat so they can't feed and all the leaves on earth count for nothing.
Oxygen levels and temperature of the root zone are equally as important.
Root zone or environment go too far off and even the healthiest, bushiest plant will crumble.
Keep the rest of it sweet though and you can chop off as much as you want cos it all grows back twice as fast and twice as thick.
Took half a dozen shopping bags worth of leaves off my profile pic before it had even got to bloom and it's a 22oz auto.
Defol, absolutely 100% will do nothing other than massively benefit your plant and speed up the growth rates....
if you do it right.
If you get negative effects it's down to human error. Not the practice itself.

 

[Remystemple]

in the first pics. white widow. I removed all the fan leaves just before flipping.


Now here's one without removing the fans.


Here's all 3 white widows. the last one is the one i took the fans off.


I seems like the lower buds on the de fanned plant ripened up a bit more, but it also seems like the other 2 will give me more weight. after this test i don't see why doing anything other than regular defol would help yields.

 

[No Pain]

in the first pics. white widow. I removed all the fan leaves just before flipping.


Now here's one without removing the fans.


Here's all 3 white widows. the last one is the one i took the fans off.


I seems like the lower buds on the de fanned plant ripened up a bit more, but it also seems like the other 2 will give me more weight. after this test i don't see why doing anything other than regular defol would help yields.

Nice Grow ! Good Feedback. Your plants in comparison to mine are pretty open by the normal defoliation that you stated you had done .

In my scrog situation ,6 plants in a 5'x7' screen doing two extreme defoliations one on day umm 22 of the flip and the last around day 40 or so ( I can dig for accurate days if people are interested ) I can say that I saw both better formation and ripening of lower flowers and an increase in final weight by about 55% ! The first crop had the similar rating 350-500 g per m2 gave me 413g per m2 . This last run gave me 641g per m2 ! Now for the negative that I seen and dealt with . This run I was dialing in feed due to a new design in my aeration system and found myself dealing overfertilization , I don't mind having a yellow tip showing me that im pushing the plant but when it starts to run down the edges I get extremely irritated with myself . That's what I was dealing with it starting to run down the edges and once you get it depending on the growth stage it is a true pain in the butt to get rid off . Normally this would happen to the fan leaf's first but since I had removed most of them it started in down the sugar leaves . Which I dealt with and it didn't have a bad effect on the crop but it made me worry about the possibility of mold in my large colas due to sugar leaves dying back into them and not being able to remove them due to position and density of the colas , I did have a couple get affected not horrible but none the less effected . I need to add that I generally let my plants run out meaning almost completely yellow . So when it came tome to trim with the overfertilization that I was dealing with it made it an extreme pain in the butt . In regards to smoke , with me letting my plants run out the way that I do I found that right after a drying period with everything that was leached from within the plant ( it was leaching from some of the lower flowers by the time of harvest , due to not having fans to pull from , it had food but wasn't really feeding from the solution as it was dying out) the smoke was smooth and had great flavor along with a true dank odor no green smell at all ( it was dried at 74 degrees at 59%rh for 10 days ) . all in all at this point I feel that it has its place and it is truly a case by case basis and I still have questions as to if it does change the flavor or the potency of the flower by doing this extreme type of defoliation as it was brought up earlier in this thread and I feel the questions are valid .

 

[Remystemple]

Nice Grow ! Good Feedback. Your plants in comparison to mine are pretty open by the normal defoliation that you stated you had done .

In my scrog situation ,6 plants in a 5'x7' screen doing two extreme defoliations one on day umm 22 of the flip and the last around day 40 or so ( I can dig for accurate days if people are interested ) I can say that I saw both better formation and ripening of lower flowers and an increase in final weight by about 55% ! The first crop had the similar rating 350-500 g per m2 gave me 413g per m2 . This last run gave me 641g per m2 ! Now for the negative that I seen and dealt with . This run I was dialing in feed due to a new design in my aeration system and found myself dealing overfertilization , I don't mind having a yellow tip showing me that im pushing the plant but when it starts to run down the edges I get extremely irritated with myself . That's what I was dealing with it starting to run down the edges and once you get it depending on the growth stage it is a true pain in the butt to get rid off . Normally this would happen to the fan leaf's first but since I had removed most of them it started in down the sugar leaves . Which I dealt with and it didn't have a bad effect on the crop but it made me worry about the possibility of mold in my large colas due to sugar leaves dying back into them and not being able to remove them due to position and density of the colas , I did have a couple get affected not horrible but none the less effected . I need to add that I generally let my plants run out meaning almost completely yellow . So when it came tome to trim with the overfertilization that I was dealing with it made it an extreme pain in the butt . In regards to smoke , with me letting my plants run out the way that I do I found that right after a drying period with everything that was leached from within the plant ( it was leaching from some of the lower flowers by the time of harvest , due to not having fans to pull from , it had food but wasn't really feeding from the solution as it was dying out) the smoke was smooth and had great flavor along with a true dank odor no green smell at all ( it was dried at 74 degrees at 59%rh for 10 days ) . all in all at this point I feel that it has its place and it is truly a case by case basis and I still have questions as to if it does change the flavor or the potency of the flower by doing this extreme type of defoliation as it was brought up earlier in this thread and I feel the questions are valid .

awesome info man. i'll make sure to pay attention to how it smokes. i also saw some things happening to the sugar leaves near the end that i didn't like, and was happy to chop when i did. was getting worried about mold, and think i even had to cut a small piece off while trimming that plant.

 

[bobrown14]

Guys when talking yields be sure to consider TIME.


I could probably VEG a plant for 9 months and make a huge bush then switch to flower and go another 2 months + and get a huge yield but thats close to a year for 1 plant.

OR

I could run the same genetics VEG clones for 6 weeks flip to flower, harvest in 2 months. I could do that every month. At the end of the year what method yields the most

The way I see it; Yields we need to consider 3 variables:
Space
Time
Yields

I did try and find some science on de-foil and well there isn't any that I could find.

I'm open minded tho so anyone wanna post a link to the science of de-foil that'd be great.

 

[No Pain]

Guys when talking yields be sure to consider TIME.


I could probably VEG a plant for 9 months and make a huge bush then switch to flower and go another 2 months + and get a huge yield but thats close to a year for 1 plant.

OR

I could run the same genetics VEG clones for 6 weeks flip to flower, harvest in 2 months. I could do that every month. At the end of the year what method yields the most

The way I see it; Yields we need to consider 3 variables:
Space
Time
Yields

I did try and find some science on de-foil and well there isn't any that I could find.

I'm open minded tho so anyone wanna post a link to the science of de-foil that'd be great.

edited for...( all vegged 4 weeks , 6 week grow time from seed)

absolutely ..space was identical ( same trellis system)both strains that I referenced where both sativa dominant and both went around 16 weeks of 12/12 . both grown from seed . differences in the room I made a new manifold for my rdwc system which made for a more efficient nute uptake and why I dealt with the overfertilization issues that I had dialing in feed for the future , I kept a closer eye on vpd ...I did have a different lamp ( same maker) in the center this round but I had dimmers installed on all my fixtures and used my lux and par meter along with the dimmers to keep light intensity the same as last round .

Im afraid us logging grows and results are going to be the science here...the only thing that I think would come close to scientific reference in what goes on is in regards to the plants defense and survival mechanism . which is directly related to the questions about changes in the plant that you had brought up earlier in the thread .

 

[DthPch78]

I enjoyed every second of this thread

 

[Remystemple]

I enjoyed every second of this thread

hopefully it's just the beginning. Just wanna thank the OP for letting us hyjack his thread LMAO

 

[Barney86]

hopefully it's just the beginning. Just wanna thank the OP for letting us hyjack his thread LMAO

Haha totally. Not so hostile take over

 

[No Pain]

I feel that it is important for me to point out a not so obvious variable to new growers that was in both of my scenarios . Now in both examples I gave a couple of post back I described differences in the environment and a new air manifold . But a not so obvious variable is growing from seed as even though the seeds come from the same parents for a given strain they can be genetically different when it comes to yield and even flavor . Meaning all other factors in a grow being identical that you can see these differences between plants . It is a reason you may hear or see someone state that they are pheno hunting . They are looking for something particular out of the strain they are growing and are growing an abundance of it to find the those traits so that they can clone it among other things.

 

[Farnheit]

I would like to hear experience with smoking it.... I think plants with pruning should have higher thc potency? maybe?

I take it as an apple tree, highest placed apples are the most red ones because they have most of the light. and also are ready sooner than the lower ones.

So did you get higher smoking pruning one than not pruning?


as I could see there is not rly big difference in yield this is only thing that could be better but I might be wrong.

 

[Remystemple]

I would like to hear experience with smoking it.... I think plants with pruning should have higher thc potency? maybe?

I take it as an apple tree, highest placed apples are the most red ones because they have most of the light. and also are ready sooner than the lower ones.

So did you get higher smoking pruning one than not pruning?


as I could see there is not rly big difference in yield this is only thing that could be better but I might be wrong.

I'll be testing it pretty soon. one or two more days to dry.

 

[bobrown14]

I would like to hear experience with smoking it.... I think plants with pruning should have higher thc potency? maybe?

I take it as an apple tree, highest placed apples are the most red ones because they have most of the light. and also are ready sooner than the lower ones.

Fruit TREES and annual flowers is not the best comparison.

You can pick off an apple when its green and it can turn red/ripen.
Ethylene is a thing is some fruits but not all. Most apples are not picked when they are red or ripe.


Sadly you can't pick off a cannabis flower early and expect it to ripen.


Just read an article a scientist wrote about defoil. It will actually promote maleness due to stress. So there's that to consider.

Here's a link:

Effects of experimental defoliation on resource allocation using integrated physiological units in the andromonoecious Camptotheca acuminata

 

[Farnheit]

Fruit TREES and annual flowers is not the best comparison.

You can pick off an apple when its green and it can turn red/ripen.
Ethylene is a thing is some fruits but not all. Most apples are not picked when they are red or ripe.


Sadly you can't pick off a cannabis flower early and expect it to ripen.


Just read an article a scientist wrote about defoil. It will actually promote maleness due to stress. So there's that to consider.

Here's a link:

Effects of experimental defoliation on resource allocation using integrated physiological units in the andromonoecious Camptotheca acuminata

Sadly you can't pick off a cannabis flower early and expect it to ripen.

Actually you can? Aint Curing what is doing riping? I read somewhere that in glass jar there are some chemist processes. That change some thc levels to the THC we all like.

 

[Remystemple]

Sadly you can't pick off a cannabis flower early and expect it to ripen.

Actually you can? Aint Curing what is doing riping? I read somewhere that in glass jar there are some chemist processes. That change some thc levels to the THC we all like.

Nah, the last 2 weeks or so is ripening.

 

[Bochensky]

1st time Grower looking for opinions not criticism, Befor I read this I was told to trim a majority of the fan leaves off so as you can see I have done that to the smaller of the two plants, so should I expirament and leave the other plant as is or should I do the same to both?

 

[Remystemple]

1st time Grower looking for opinions not criticism, Befor I read this I was told to trim a majority of the fan leaves off so as you can see I have done that to the smaller of the two plants, so should I expirament and leave the other plant as is or should I do the same to both?

if you plan to grow the same strain again it would be a good experiment. i learned that my white widow didn't do any better than the others when i took all the fan leaves off of one. so now i know next time i run white widow not to defol too much.

 

[Simon Limon]

To update my earlier comments on the pros/cons of removing foliage: my plants in 20 gallon fabric pots are in the stretch and have very dense foliage. I'm only finding a few yellowing leaves in the lowest parts. As I noted before, 99% of the foliage is still a vibrant green, including leaves that are heavily shaded. I interpret this to mean that the plant is benefiting from those green leaves and shedding those few leaves that are no longer useful.

I am trimming out weaker stems that are well below the canopy but reaching upward, especially in the center of the plant, to improve air circulation.

 

[Bochensky]

if you plan to grow the same strain again it would be a good experiment. i learned that my white widow didn't do any better than the others when i took all the fan leaves off of one. so now i know next time i run white widow not to defol too much.

From what I've been reading about the "To Trim Or Not To Trim" situation is that it's more the strain of the plant that decides weather or not it's a good idea or not and not really a sunlight, personal preference, or whatnot

 

[Bochensky]

To update my earlier comments on the pros/cons of removing foliage: my plants in 20 gallon fabric pots are in the stretch and have very dense foliage. I'm only finding a few yellowing leaves in the lowest parts. As I noted before, 99% of the foliage is still a vibrant green, including leaves that are heavily shaded. I interpret this to mean that the plant is benefiting from those green leaves and shedding those few leaves that are no longer useful.

I am trimming out weaker stems that are well below the canopy but reaching upward, especially in the center of the plant, to improve air circulation.

What are your thoughts on if I'm putting bud booster and plant food into the water for them therefore the plant wouldn't need the stored nuteients from the fan leaf and would render it useless?? I haven't a clue how a plant gathers and sends its neutrients to be honest