Prove it!

[Jackalope]

Don't forget half eaten apple cores! I got that not ounce but twice lol. I totally prefer the newer smells and flavors. Being older and working as the boss for so long. I found I really pushed my ways when I started here. Always trying to prove older was better then newer. We all know that is not happening. After I noticed it in myself. I spotted it in others also. I had to change the way I gave advice and my opinions. Really felt foolish when I realized I thought my opinions should matter to anyone other me. Like Dwight I care more of what they produce a lot more then how much they produce.

 

[Mike Wright]

I think the whole new definition of "organic" is just BS so that some companies can cash in. I much prefer "natural". My first 5 or 6 grows I didn't use any supplemental fertilizers, everything was mixed in the soil, worm castings, guano, rock dust, etc, etc. The taste of that bud was always just outstanding, like you always really noticed how good it tasted, and mild. More and more I'm leaning on nutrients now, just because it is so much easier, but still as a supplement to a good soil. I think if you know what you are doing and don't overfertilize and do a good flush everything in a good nutrient mix is "natural" anyway. 2c.

 

[pbepablo]

i need help you guys looks like you will help

 

[pbepablo]

i'm not dealing with a lot of space but i was wondering if someone could tell me what i could use for big pots i'm using 22 oz speedway plastic cups and i'm starting 5 more and adding a second light but i feel like i could find a type of cup or pot or something that maybe isn't that tall but maybe wide or something with a small mouth and bigger bottom for the roots! i know this is confusing but PLEASE HELP MEEE

 

[Weaselcracker]

Not the original question of this thread- but I see it's rambling way the hell all over the place anyway, so- wtf. It hasn't been mentioned- ethical considerations.
There are good ethical reasons to try to grow more organically. And Scotts MG in particular is not a company with a pleasant track record Why We Don’t Sell Miracle-Gro | Organica: Garden Supply & Hydroponics

On top of which they are deeply in bed with Monsanto. A lot of real ugly stuff has gone on with these two companies. Does it matter? Well- out of sight, out of mind I guess. But it does matter, especially to the people and places damaged by their bad practises.
It is part of the equation. I mean- it's good to factor this stuff in, IMO.
I'm using Botanicare. When I started using them about ten years ago it was because they were 'organic'. Or at least 99.9% organically derived. Not sure what that worth for something that comes in a plastic bottle, but anyway it's the reason they were recommended to me.
So a while back they got bought out. By Scott's Miracle Grow. I am looking around for a different line to use, but slowly. Testing the Remo stuff out at the moment.

 

[Weavel]

Pdepablo,

I personally like the fabric pots, you can get many different size ones (2 or 3 gallon is my preference) and they are cheap.

at that link you can choose the size you want from 1 gallon pots to 30 gallon,

 

[DaddyKush]

Testing the Remo stuff out at the moment.

I just finished my first Remo grow and my yields are down a bit. But I also switched from HID to LEDs this time around so I can't say for sure which is more to blame.

 

[Jackalope]

Lots of good options out there for pots. You don't have to spend a lot of money here to get a good product. Anything in the 2 or 3 gallon size will work ok for most grows..

 

[Jackalope]

Not the original question of this thread- but I see it's rambling way the hell all over the place anyway, so- wtf. It hasn't been mentioned- ethical considerations.
There are good ethical reasons to try to grow more organically. And Scotts MG in particular is not a company with a pleasant track record Why We Don’t Sell Miracle-Gro | Organica: Garden Supply & Hydroponics

On top of which they are deeply in bed with Monsanto. A lot of real ugly stuff has gone on with these two companies. Does it matter? Well- out of sight, out of mind I guess. But it does matter, especially to the people and places damaged by their bad practises.
It is part of the equation. I mean- it's good to factor this stuff in, IMO.
I'm using Botanicare. When I started using them about ten years ago it was because they were 'organic'. Or at least 99.9% organically derived. Not sure what that worth for something that comes in a plastic bottle, but anyway it's the reason they were recommended to me.
So a while back they got bought out. By Scott's Miracle Grow. I am looking around for a different line to use, but slowly. Testing the Remo stuff out at the moment.

I was wondering when this part of the subject would come up. When you put ethical or responsible considerations. Hard to argue this point without coming off as uncaring. The fact that if you use a product you are somehow condoning the actions of a huge company is wrong. Lots of companies for years have had questionable operating practices. In most cases it was not because they were evil, It was because they were unaware or didn't look at the big picture. As we learn more these practices should be changing. I for one am never going to defend or condone these actions. MG was the only viable option for soil when I started growing. After that I was comfortable with it and had no reason to quit. I have never been the cut your nose of to spite your face type. If it works for me I'm going to use it. Why should I change just because the company that makes the product I use has bad business practices? Why should I have to pay for their actions?................................................ YES we do need to change our practices to better take care of our planet. Holding companies responsible for there actions as they go forward. No matter how much a product is liked or disliked. That fact does not mean that there are not millions of other satisfied costumers. Will big business change their tactics? Probable not. Will Miracle Grow make a Cannabis mix in the future? You bet your ass they will if there is money in it. If they did make a perfect organic soil for marijuana. Would the fact that they were owned by Monsanto make this soil any less of a option?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey Jackalope. These online discussions are tricky sometimes. Just as you say it's hard to argue it without sounding uncaring- it's also hard to argue the ethical considerations without sounding all moralistic and saintly. Seems all black and white. Easy to butt heads or get defensive.
But to be totally honest though I do feel a bit moralistic when it comes to greedy mega corporations. So I'll drop a short moralistic rant on you for the sake of your pro Miracle Grow thread.
I live in what was once a beautiful wilderness, but has being thoroughly raped by corporations. Just getting down to the dregs now. Fish stocks wiped out, tidal zones poisoned, forests logged down to the bitter end- leaving an literal and economic grave yard for our future generations. Greed seems to be a religion for a lot of people.
Evil? It's kind of an easy word to throw around, but actually incredibly hard to find anyone truly 'evil' once you start looking. Everyone is always just doing their job, busy with their lives, following orders, doing business.
Just because I brought up the ethical thing doesn't mean I think I you're a dick for plugging MG. It ain't like that. We are all kind of in the same boat. We all go to stores- we all buy crap made by who knows what foul companies. Maybe we wouldn't if we really had to look at these companies very deeply. But why would we want to do that? life is too busy to go looking for trouble. Myself I find myself with a bunch of Botanicare nutes, owned by Scott's, so it's basically the same as if I was buying MG.
I do think it's generally more 'organic' to go with what works best, saves the most energy, and feels the best- though sometimes we might be a bit deluded about what 'best' is in the big picture.
Not going to nitpick your whole post. Maybe as an argument it has a bunch of holes in it, but when I think about it- you're still kind of right. If shelves are full of Miracle Grow and it's all there is to buy, or it's the cheapest and most popular, or has the most garish eye-catching package that makes people's brains go 'ding' - I guess that's what 'we' want. MG has slithered to the top of the heap in the big box stores, and big box stores are the top dogs in retail. Everything is spinning around exactly the way it was meant to. Maybe I don't like a lot of it- but I'd be an idiot to go picking fights over it. It's not that simple. Live and let live.
Personally I just feel better not supporting companies like Monsanto. I really do not believe they are nice- or my friend in any way. Any time I can keep my money out of the hands of someone like that, and give it up to someone/something I believe in, I feel good about it. I feel good running a compost bin, growing a garden, living way out in the boonies in a cabin. There's still some nature left here. And no big box stores for almost 100 miles.
Maybe I don't believe in evil exactly- but seeing what's been happening to the nature around me, in the name of human greed- it comes awfully close.
So would Monsanto soil be 'less of an option' for me. Yes. It would not be an option at all for me. But that's just me.

I will nitpick this point.

Why should I change just because the company that makes the product I use has bad business practices?

....YES we do need to.... [hold] companies responsible for there actions as they go forward.

Yeah well - HOW do you think that's going to happen? There is only one way that I see to make companies change their bad business practise, and that's to stop
rewarding them for it. All they care about is money- because that's business. And as long as we keep giving them ours, because all we care about is getting the cheap easy product and we aren't willing to make any changes ourselves- why should they? If the planet is infested with short sighted greedy corporations, that's just because it's infested with short sighted greedy people who manifested them.
And so it goes...
Happy growing bro.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Just because I brought up the ethical thing doesn't mean I think I you're a dick for plugging MG. It ain't like that. We are all kind of in the same boat. We all go to stores- we all buy crap made by who knows what foul companies. Maybe we wouldn't if we really had to look at these companies very deeply. But why would we want to do that? life is too busy to go looking for trouble. Myself I find myself with a bunch of Botanicare nutes, owned by Scott's, so it's basically the same as if I was buying MG.

It is one of those not an easy answer to a complex issue(s). Currently I'm using GO for Nutes and yeah they got bought out by that bigger corporation but the original company hasn't changed the formula or even the way they do things far as I know, as could just be they needed capital to keep from going under, so the usual double edged sword at times, as either way I'm still buying something in a plastic bottle that hangs around the planet longer than I ever will. It's like around here there are folks that boycott Walmart and other big box places due to them paying their employees less, but myself I have to buy where things are cheaper as I can't afford to pay 25-50% more for staples (food etc...) along with the time issue of having to run around more places as I can't leave my Wife alone for long periods of time. Anyone that has worked in any industry has "stories", that or I just have that kind of luck , and like I just said I guess I have the same problem as money (or lack there of) is a contributing factor into my life's decisions whether I like it or not, as bottom line affects many of us same way it affects corporations.

I kind of get reminded of how reliant the masses are on "convenience" when the power goes out, as many folks don't have a clue how to live if it stayed out for a longer period of time...."OMG my cell phone is dead what do I do?" but I don't own one so I'm good on that one I just don't have a clue how I can cook anything with what I have in the house along with all that food in the freezer that won't be good long unless power comes on. It's like my Son doesn't know what to do other than go to bed when there is no power as "OMG no internet and no power to play computer games either" though me and the Old Lady can only talk to each other so much before we get tired of each other as we around each other 23/7 as it is

One of those we all have to draw our lines where we draw them based on our opinions/thoughts, and even trying to "not contribute to the planets destruction" in some form isn't really easy as it is easier to see the effect than it is to figure out the cause sometimes as it has gotten a lot more complex IMHO, as we affect things w/o even knowing it and it is hard to totally get away from it. As with the large population we have on the planet I think it would be tough/impossible for all of us to "live off the land" like in the old days, as w/o electricity then we have to burn things for silly thing like heat/food and burning things not real great for the environment either.

 

[Jackalope]

Great input from Dwight and Weasel. I started this thread so people would keep a open mind. So in doing this I should keep a open mind myself. To tell the truth I probable knew the out come before hand. While trying to defend how a product works I ran right into the bigger question. Big business will not change their practices unless they are forced. Even when they know something is bad they won't change if it cost them profits. That is where the "Evil" part of the equation comes in. Greed is everywhere so you can't hold that against them. The all mighty dollar is the only thing they understand. We as people should make changes as we learn from our mistakes. Changing our purchases is one way we can make a change............. MG can work, does work, and will work in the future. Should we use it if there are other options??? NO! I loose.... I would like to say I won't use it in the future but that would be a lie. If I have to I will. I can on the other hand quit promoting the use of it though... Thanks for all the comments. It took a bit but it ended up quite interesting.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Busy at work being a wage slave but- great discussion. So what do we do? I have a bunch more botanicare stuff to use up. The Remo stuff is a box I won for NOTY. I also have a few bottles of GH nutes to use up -oh wait GH is owned by you know who.
I'll start a thread when I get a moment and see if we can find any ethical bottled nutes. I think in the long term I can go actual organic -I've looked into it a bunch- but that's another can of worms.

 

[Jackalope]

I'm still a bit selfish. I will be keeping the MG nutrients. I can't even say I won't buy more when it is gone. Best I can do is not promote its use. It is nice to have something as back up. What I have is 4 years old now anyway. Probably going to be useless by the time I need it. All I feed now is guano's. When you go as far as packaging. There is a lot of work to be done. The throw away lifestyle we live is getting out of hand. Funny how bottled water sales went through the roof after people were already aware of landfill problems. So many fingers to point these days no one has enough fingers.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah those water bottles wash up on our beaches here in the millions.
Realistically, we are completely doomed when it comes to the future of the luxuries we used to take for granted - clean water, clean air, clean food, solitude, quiet, diversity of plant and animal life- all that jazz. Oh well- we have the internet and Facebook and cheap Chinese products- for now.
I'll be using the botanicare stuff a bit longer. The place I usually order from doesn't have much better. But I'm looking at other options. Biobizz is a name that comes up in the ethical/organic area. A little more expensive than what I pay now but nutrients are one of the cheapest operating costs of my grow when I factor in time and power bills,etc.
Will it make any difference in the world if I switch nutes and stop giving my money to Scotts and friends?
Only a very very very tiny difference. But I'll feel good about it and so that's quite a bit of gain in my world. Plants might be happier and produce better buds on something more organic too.

 

[Jackalope]

They are making better nutrients now they can design them just for marijuana. So newer should be getting better. Never getting rid of big business. They just buy up all the smaller companies when their market values are high. We as growers should try and keep things as natural as possible. This from the guy that started the MG thread LMAO.