Potency. Is it based on genetics or your growing skills?

[beard o]

I've been growing for some time. Went through the usual steep learning curve. Made my share of errors at first. But had a couple mentors, and used resources like this site to refine my skills.

So here's what I've noticed.
When I got serious years ago, I bought a tent with all the bells and whistles. Spared no expense. I wanted to eliminate that variable.
The first few years I grew some really potent cannabis. Just bought my seeds online, unsure of their genetics or sources. But it was strong, smelled great, my friends loved it.

As I progressed, I began to research my seeds more. Gravitating to seeds billed as "2022 1st place indica" or "2022 most powerful sativa". Bought into the hype.
All the while thinking I'm buying the most current, best of the best.

However, while these seeds produced some beautiful plants, the potency wasn't any different than the lesser known, generic seeds I was growing years ago.

So, is genetics the final word, or is growing knowledge and equipment more important?

 

[Dwight Monk]

Personally think you can grow decent stuff with good genetics in not so ideal conditions, but if genetics are crap then hard to end up with great as it limits the upper end. Personally if I'm researching seeds I don't care about the hype as you say and not care if it won awards, but put more research on how it has grown for people and how stable the genetics are (how well it has been worked), as if 5+ different phenotypes of the Strain it going to be a crapshoot on which one you get or a different combination of those pheno's. There are Breeders out there that have made a name for themselves and already have a following, if the Business hasn't been in operation very long it's hard to say what you will get, as some gems out there but there is also 10k trying to get in on the money grab going on and putting out fake or unworked genetics out there. Not that you can't get killer stuff from crap genetics, as always you still have that genetic dice roll going on and can sometimes find a gem in the rough, but it's more rare.
Like everything you will get a variety of opinions on it. If you have access to local varieties sometimes that helpful too, or mess around with breeding some yourself just for your own use and others you know and not try to get in on the money grab.

 

[Fenderbender]

What exactly is potency?
There's strains that can kick my ass with less than half the usually advertised THC content these days..
Others can keep me up at night.

If you don't feel it, break tolerance by not toking for a bit should work wonders.

 

[Sueet]

What exactly is potency?
There's strains that can kick my ass with less than half the usually advertised THC content these days..
Others can keep me up at night.

If you don't feel it, break tolerance by not toking for a bit should work wonders.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm convinced that thc is not the main product my brain cares about - even though it is the thing everyone markets and breeds for.
There has to be something else to it, since going up and down in thc doesn't make the huge difference it seems like it ought to.

 

[Bean Genie]

My opinion
Genetics is about 50% of it

The other half is split equally between the Grower and The Person in charge of drying, curing, storing the finished product.

And 100% agree that looking at potency simply on a THC scale is like considering a trip across the country in the world’s fastest car.
Sometimes you might want to take the scenic route in an old VW Bus instead.

 

[Carcass]

I've been making, and smoking a lot of hash lately- and the hash will not get me as high as the weed it was made from..
.those terpenes definitely do more than just smell good...

 

[BeccaBuds]

Genetics is the most important variable, imho. Hemp won't get you high no matter how you grow it but it's still cannabis.

 

[beard o]

Ok, my error. Perhaps a case of semantics. I frequently use the terms cannabis and marijuana interchangeably. I was never referring to hemp.

I'll believe specific. I put a lot of time, effort and $$$ into all my grows. I spare nothing, esp when it comes to soil.
When I first began, I grew some really quality , powerful marijuana using some questionable, mediocre seeds. Often free seeds from friends.
Conversely, I've been disappointed a few times buying expensive, highly touted seeds from supposedly highly reputable breeders. You know the kind, "Best Indica of the Year" or "Winner of the Sativa Cup".
Often these highly acclaimed seeds grew pretty plants, but not much better than your average seeds.

 

[Delps8]

My thinking:

Genetics are the base. Give the plant a good grow environment. "sufficient" levels of fertilizer (more than that is, at best, a waste of money), water, wind, etc.

If you add CO2, you'll get more but not better.

You can add lotsa light but, once you hit 800±µmol in flower, you're just increasing yield not increasing levels of secondary metabolites (terpene and cannabanoids). If you don't give your plants enough light, your plants will tend to be tall and spindly and yield will suffer but my sense is that you give your plants a decent amount of light, quality will be there.

The magic number, per the researcher whose name is in the bottom of this graphic, is to keep the temperature at the top of the buds <=78° and 78° is the max you want to have them.

The above graphic is from the videos that he released a year ago. He goes over four areas of the research that he's done for his PhD - he's studying under Bruce Bugbee. The research info that he shares about temperature was in a video that he did in 2021 so you might want to check that one out as well. My paraphrase of his description in the older video was the secondary metabolites were "decimated".

Good genetics, good conditions, just enough nutrients for "sufficiency", about 800-900µmol of light (if your plants can't handle that level of light, figure out why), and LTFA and you'll get a very nice crop.

After that?

I agree with @Bean Genie — drying and curing can make or break a crop. I've tried a few different approaches and think the idiot-proof approach (meaning take me out of the loop) has been to modify a Koolatron wine fridge for drying and storing.

With wine fridge, a Peltier-based dehu, a controller, and about an hour of labor, you put the weed in the box, set the temp, and RH and then gradually reduce RH until you're at 60 ad 60.

Just took this screenshot.

 

[Bean Genie]

My thinking:

Genetics are the base. Give the plant a good grow environment. "sufficient" levels of fertilizer (more than that is, at best, a waste of money), water, wind, etc.

If you add CO2, you'll get more but not better.

You can add lotsa light but, once you hit 800±µmol in flower, you're just increasing yield not increasing levels of secondary metabolites (terpene and cannabanoids). If you don't give your plants enough light, your plants will tend to be tall and spindly and yield will suffer but my sense is that you give your plants a decent amount of light, quality will be there.

The magic number, per the researcher whose name is in the bottom of this graphic, is to keep the temperature at the top of the buds <=78° and 78° is the max you want to have them.

The above graphic is from the videos that he released a year ago. He goes over four areas of the research that he's done for his PhD - he's studying under Bruce Bugbee. The research info that he shares about temperature was in a video that he did in 2021 so you might want to check that one out as well. My paraphrase of his description in the older video was the secondary metabolites were "decimated".

Good genetics, good conditions, just enough nutrients for "sufficiency", about 800-900µmol of light (if your plants can't handle that level of light, figure out why), and LTFA and you'll get a very nice crop.

After that?

I agree with @Bean Genie — drying and curing can make or break a crop. I've tried a few different approaches and think the idiot-proof approach (meaning take me out of the loop) has been to modify a Koolatron wine fridge for drying and storing.

With wine fridge, a Peltier-based dehu, a controller, and about an hour of labor, you put the weed in the box, set the temp, and RH and then gradually reduce RH until you're at 60 ad 60.

Just took this screenshot.

Right you are.

A pretty good grower can get really good genetics to grow right but can also screw up everything if they let the humidity stay too high for a few days (or a multitude of other tiny details)

 

[beard o]

My thinking:

Genetics are the base. Give the plant a good grow environment. "sufficient" levels of fertilizer (more than that is, at best, a waste of money), water, wind, etc.

If you add CO2, you'll get more but not better.

You can add lotsa light but, once you hit 800±µmol in flower, you're just increasing yield not increasing levels of secondary metabolites (terpene and cannabanoids). If you don't give your plants enough light, your plants will tend to be tall and spindly and yield will suffer but my sense is that you give your plants a decent amount of light, quality will be there.

The magic number, per the researcher whose name is in the bottom of this graphic, is to keep the temperature at the top of the buds <=78° and 78° is the max you want to have them.

The above graphic is from the videos that he released a year ago. He goes over four areas of the research that he's done for his PhD - he's studying under Bruce Bugbee. The research info that he shares about temperature was in a video that he did in 2021 so you might want to check that one out as well. My paraphrase of his description in the older video was the secondary metabolites were "decimated".

Good genetics, good conditions, just enough nutrients for "sufficiency", about 800-900µmol of light (if your plants can't handle that level of light, figure out why), and LTFA and you'll get a very nice crop.

After that?

I agree with @Bean Genie — drying and curing can make or break a crop. I've tried a few different approaches and think the idiot-proof approach (meaning take me out of the loop) has been to modify a Koolatron wine fridge for drying and storing.

With wine fridge, a Peltier-based dehu, a controller, and about an hour of labor, you put the weed in the box, set the temp, and RH and then gradually reduce RH until you're at 60 ad 60.

Just took this screenshot.

Great read. Thanks

 

[Sueet]

I've been making, and smoking a lot of hash lately- and the hash will not get me as high as the weed it was made from..
.those terpenes definitely do more than just smell good...

Is it something besides the high you are chasing? Why continue to make hash if it isn't as good as using it other ways?

 

[bluter]

light.

genetics are the base but the light is what makes the difference.
the rest of the environment can be perfect, if the light is lacking the end result will be average at best. even mediocre genetics can be elevated to better levels if the environment is good and there is decent light.

 

[Delps8]

Right you are.

A pretty good grower can get really good genetics to grow right but can also screw up everything if they let the humidity stay too high for a few days (or a multitude of other tiny details)

If the tiny details are during the grow, time will tend to resolve the issue. In contrast, RH at the end of a grow can lead to bud rot and that's fatal. My Springs 2023 grow went down the tubes in a matter of days because of bud rot.

Until that grow, I'd only grown autos and, no surprise, had given them "lotsa light" for 20/4 or 21/3. The plant below was my first photo grow and I'd read about bud rot and, from the picture below, you can see two 6" fans that are under the canopy. That wasn't enough.

IIRC, it was about two days before I planned to harvest that one of the buds looked a bit off and, when I gave it a gentle squeeze, it was soft. There was a lot of damage and, rather than take a chance, I binned the plant.

Thinking back on the experience, I suspect that I'd never had an issue with bud rot previously because, one, good luck but, more importantly, I was running lights on for so long that temps never really got a chance to drop. Switching to photos and having them in the dark for 12 hours was a different story and I got bit.

My current grow is photos and I'm watching RH very closely. The weather has cooperated, in terms of RH, and I've got Govee sensors in the canopy.

My understanding is that botrytis likes temps <75 so I'd prefer to see temps higher than 72.x but I can't do much about that. I run an AC Infnity heater at 77° during lights out but the temp in the garage is 75.8 (sensor # 5). It's another brutal Southern California winter! At least RH in the canopy is < 50% (#1 and #3).


(#2 and #4 are on racks in the Koolatron wine fridge that I use for drying and curing. )

 

[Carcass]

Why continue to make hash if it isn't as good as using it other ways?

Good question, Sueet-
The hash is quicker, and a lot easier on the lungs- it gets me high enough, but it's a different high than if I smoked a bowl of weed- not quite as "heavy" for lack of a better term...

And, I already made a bunch of it, so I've got to use it up...

 

[Fenderbender]

High THC strains, or extracts or hash are a high for me, it keeps me up and alert and busy.
It's not a heavy green hammer hitting stone.

Maybe I need to try some 1:1 strains.. as well I got some CBD extract and man the bodily effects of that are really noticeable, I've been having very deep sleeps and like all the muscles and nerves are super relaxed. tension be gone.. quite amazing.

 

[SmokingWings]

So, is genetics the final word, or is growing knowledge and equipment more important?

It probably is a lot of both genetics and knowledge. Knowledge helps in being able to read the plant and know what to do next.

I believe that someone mentioned something along the lines of genetics is the base. It is what we have that we can work with. Experience helps bring the knowledge to make it easier to work with the type of plant.

Example is the person who grows tomatoes every summer in their backyard garden. They get better and better at it and impress family, friends and neighbors. They learn that their plants grow better in one particular area because they are in the summer sun longer than if they were in another spot. Or they grow better in an area because the soil is has better drainage.

Experience contributes a lot.

 

[beard o]

You made me smile because I'm a serious tomato guy. Over 50 plants each spring. Start all from seed.
I usually start about 100 plants, keep 50 for myself, and gift the rest to neighbors and friends.
The photo is all tomato seedlings.

 

[Fenderbender]

Well the genetics are there, but what gets coaxed out of them or how they express themselves is kinda totally environment & external triggers.

I would say when it comes to terps everything has an influence.
Type of medium, No medium, Spectrum, Nutrients, Temps, Air if you hand out clones to different gardens or different tents they don't come back tasting the same.. sure the flavour is within the profile of the strain but can get skewed in very different directions and can contain extra notes or well be absent of them.
The same plant grown hydroponically with mineral nutes under HPS is a very different product from one grown in soil under LED or outdoor. Like my Channel+ goes from a very singular defined taste in abundance to a very complex taste where every drag of the joint has you going in a different direction. Way more overtones or well overnotes with soil & LED or sunlight than without.

And I do feel that the ratio between all the terps and other cannabinoids can give you very different rides.

 

[Sativa1970]

Everything is controlled by one limiting factor with these plants. Experience, environment, and drying/curing process are all full of small details, that have one detail that limits that processes max quality.

Everything optimized you still have a plant with hundreds of cannabinoids and terpenes mixed in there genetics. Those all interact with each other different and how they interact with each person is different. 10 strains with 10 different people can give you 10 answers of which was the best. The only opinion that matters is what do you like the best.