PitVipers nutrient recomendations

[PitViper]

Pit I was curious why 30 hrs of dark b4 flower? I've read of a few others doing so but I don't understand why exactly.

BWC....great to see you. to make the story short Ill just give the quick and dirty.
An Oldhead told me many things. one was 30 hrs down then bloom.
It sends a clear signal to the plant to bloom. It reduces stretch..Butcher has proved in in a test. He took 4 clones from 1 plant. 3 of then were thrown into 12/12 like he does normally. the 4th was aprox 30% shorter and the trunk twice as thick....all 4 same pheno...if my numbers are incorrect Butcher please post it...I might be conservative on the height.
I always do 30 hrs ..........about 25 members here do 30 hrs based on this.
Cervantes says 36 hrs for the same reason. my Oldhead has grown thousands of plants over 30 years..I trust him, I trust Cervantes and Im willing to state it as fact that is works. no doubt that there will be some flak but I dont care.
again...good to see you!!

 

[PitViper]

thanks for the info. Where do i find a ppm reader?

Grow Lights, Grow Bulbs and Hydroponics - Plantlighting Hydroponics & Grow Lights browse around you will need that sight

 

[BWC BayArea]

Dark Period before switchin 12/12

BWC....great to see you. to make the story short Ill just give the quick and dirty.
An Oldhead told me many things. one was 30 hrs down then bloom.
It sends a clear signal to the plant to bloom. It reduces stretch..Butcher has proved in in a test. He took 4 clones from 1 plant. 3 of then were thrown into 12/12 like he does normally. the 4th was aprox 30% shorter and the trunk twice as thick....all 4 same pheno...if my numbers are incorrect Butcher please post it...I might be conservative on the height.
I always do 30 hrs ..........about 25 members here do 30 hrs based on this.
Cervantes says 36 hrs for the same reason. my Oldhead has grown thousands of plants over 30 years..I trust him, I trust Cervantes and Im willing to state it as fact that is works. no doubt that there will be some flak but I dont care.
again...good to see you!!

Good to be back and see u too my friend. Even better to see that the nest hasn't lost a step. I think I'll have to give the dark period a go. Thanks for the response. Dude ur advice has been so on point, u don't even know. Or maybe u do. Thanks again.

 

[PitViper]

Pit what line of nute are you using in your garden?

Im using Floranova and Floralicious....in both soil and hydro...makes it easier.
I will also be using molasses in both systems.
Ive streamlined my grows and the Floranova just plain works. I have the pics to prove it.
Its supposed to be "organic" it is but not totaly. I dont care...it works great.
If I were to use something different it would be GH's 3 part. I used that my 1st time and it worked great.

 

[Vaporeyes]

do not adjust the PPM thru the week....Ph is the one you want to watch.
watching the PPM will tell you whats happening...but dont adjust
do not set a hard numper on PH. the general belief is setting at 5.5 first and let it wander up to 6.2..thats a good thing. hope that helps

Hey Pit, im a little confused......I use dwc and generally add back nutes with my water daily to keep it where ever im looking for it to be for that week ( say 1500) Am i understanding correctly, thats not the way to go?
If I just add water back for a week before a res change im guessing my ppm would be down to 5-700 at the end of the week....

thanks in advance!

 

[Bolivar]

Im using Floranova and Floralicious....in both soil and hydro...makes it easier.
I will also be using molasses in both systems.
Ive streamlined my grows and the Floranova just plain works. I have the pics to prove it.
Its supposed to be "organic" it is but not totaly. I dont care...it works great.
If I were to use something different it would be GH's 3 part. I used that my 1st time and it worked great.

I think I'll switch from Flora to Floranova next res change. Have to pick up some Floralicious Plus to go with it, which means $80 or so for the two qts...
I'm assuming I won't be using the Floralicious Bloom with the Floranova.

I too have been really happy with the Flora, but it's the only thing I've ever used and this is probably a good time to check out something else (which is also GH).

 

[PitViper]

Hey Pit, im a little confused......I use dwc and generally add back nutes with my water daily to keep it where ever im looking for it to be for that week ( say 1500) Am i understanding correctly, thats not the way to go?
If I just add water back for a week before a res change im guessing my ppm would be down to 5-700 at the end of the week....

thanks in advance!

If you set it at 1500..you will only consume so much. If you change your water weekly like you should be doing then water and nute levels will drop...thats fine. It depends on your res size. 18 gallons is alot more sensitive to change and fluctuation than say 50 gals. I would recomend that if you use 50% of your water in 3 days then go ahead and refill and renute. If your not using that much then just top off with water. myself...I just top off with water if needed...there is no wrong way. hope I didnt confuse you

 

[PitViper]

I think I'll switch from Flora to Floranova next res change. Have to pick up some Floralicious Plus to go with it, which means $80 or so for the two qts...
I'm assuming I won't be using the Floralicious Bloom with the Floranova.

I too have been really happy with the Flora, but it's the only thing I've ever used and this is probably a good time to check out something else (which is also GH).

I use all three of these in hydro and soil. my mix is very unorthodox but it works for me. If you are gonna use these 3 Ill give you the recipe. I shared it with GH and at first they said it wouldnt work....they changed their tune after looking at the pics
Obviously I do the same with the bloom mix

 

[Bolivar]

I use all three of these in hydro and soil. my mix is very unorthodox but it works for me. If you are gonna use these 3 Ill give you the recipe. I shared it with GH and at first they said it wouldnt work....they changed their tune after looking at the pics
Obviously I do the same with the bloom mix

I'm in flowering, so I'll be using the Flora Nova Bloom, Floralicious Plus, Flora Blend, and Liquid KoolBloom. Picked the stuff up this afternoon. What's your bloom mix?

 

[PitViper]

For bloom I use Floranova bloom,Floralicious bloom and Floralic plus...and Sweet

 

[BWC BayArea]

Dirt is Dirty

Pit,
I just saw ur quote. If I remember correctly "dirt is dirty", what happened to that? LOL. Just when I was begining to think u were a good dude u go out fucking around on hydro with "dirt". Umh Umh Umh *shakes head*. Jus teasin, I remeber tho. U should do a journal titled "The Viper's Nest: Down and Dirty".

Sincerely,
Fellow dirtbagger BWC​

 

[Bolivar]

For bloom I use Floranova bloom,Floralicious bloom and Floralic plus...and Sweet

Cool. I've got a bottle of Flora Nectar as well from last grow. Was going to start it last 2-3 weeks of flower.

 

[PitViper]

Re: Dirt is Dirty

Pit,
I just saw ur quote. If I remember correctly "dirt is dirty", what happened to that? LOL. Just when I was begining to think u were a good dude u go out fucking around on hydro with "dirt". Umh Umh Umh *shakes head*. Jus teasin, I remeber tho. U should do a journal titled "The Viper's Nest: Down and Dirty".

Sincerely,
Fellow dirtbagger BWC​

I like dirt and I like hydro. I prefer a smaller operation in hydro hence the flood tray. 2 years ago I never would have considered soil...look at us now.
shortly we will have 4 tents running and the LED tray (pet project).

 

[PitViper]

Cool. I've got a bottle of Flora Nectar as well from last grow. Was going to start it last 2-3 weeks of flower.

never used that one but I suspect its very similar. Ill be using molasses for both soil and hydro starting this week (Sweet is almost empty)

 

[TorturedSoul]

Crashing your thread, hope y'all don't mind a novelette. Some of it might actually be on-topic.

please vote my thread as you see fit....for example 5 stars lol

I like a good General Hydroponics thread. Shows it's not just for beginners. (And third-world nations where the soil is too poor to use and a crappy nutrient means people go hungry. And Antarctic research centers. And orbiting space stations. And...)

Like if my ppm goes from 1200 to 1600 over 2 days i adjust to say 1050 thinking its to high for the strain or if it goes from 950 to 800 i adjust to say 1100 thinking it needs more or should i try to keep it going. PH always 5.5 to 6.2. I over feed and locked out one whole grow so kinda nute shy now. I grow aero (stinkstyle) and dwc bubbles.
thanks

In all probability, it means that your plants have transpired more moisture than they have uptook (uptaken? err... used) nutrients. Let me think... TDS goes down, water goes down = using water but using more nutrients. TDS goes up, water goes down = using more water than nutrients. TDS goes down or stays the same, water goes down, pH gradually climbs = feeding nicely. Anything and pH tanks = clean the living stuff out of your reservoir, lol (and check your roots).

That old Swim feller once did a grow (or two) without changing the reservoir but he doesn't recommend it because checking your TDS or EC will tell you your general nutrient (salt) level but it won't tell you which particular elements the plants used and which ones they left in solution. Continually adding more solution without keeping that in mind can lead to an overabundance of the ones that aren't being used as much. Which can lead to problems down the line. Someone said, "Start growing and you will worry that you don't understand the plants' nutrient relationship. Get a few grows under your belt and you'll feel that you do. Get a few dozen down and you actually might." Until then (and even then), reservoir changes are generally a good idea.

You find a ppm meter either online or at your local grow shop.

I've been to a couple garden centers, but they seem to only stock supplies for outdoor gardens.

Those high-end bait shops (fish & aquarium stores, lol) often have pH meters and may also have TDS and/or EC meters.

Thing about TDS vs. EC meters is that an EC meter measures electrical conductivity. It'll always give you a proper reading. But different salts affect the EC differently (IOW, 100ppm of one salt in pure water will have a slightly different EC reading than 100ppm of a different salt in pure water). A TDS meter actually measures EC but then uses a conversion factor to give a "best-guess" at parts per million of TDS. The conversion factor is not an arbitrary figure; different ones are used depending on the type of salts that the manufacturer assumes will be measured. There are only three or so different conversion factors - but I can't remember them off-hand or which "reference salts" each is based upon.

Milwaukee's web site has some useful information in their FAQs and tech tips. Seems like I read somewhere there that the TDS meters that are based on the sodium chloride conversion factor (many of them are) may underestimate the true TDS by as much as 30% in a typical hydroponics solution. So... this explains why you might mix up your nutrients exactly according to the formulas on the bottles and notice that the stated ppms don't always match what your meter reads. (But with a properly calibrated meter, you should get the same "non-matching" reading every time you mix the nutrients to the same ratios/strengths with the same initial water. And depending on the meter's conversion factor it might be remarkably close.) Seems like EC meters seem to be more commonly used in Europe but I could be mistaken.

Not as complicated as my disjointed rambling makes it sound but it is helpful to understand it (and my "explaining" most likely hasn't helped that, lol but it gives a very general idea... maybe). This is covered by what PitViper called the "fudge factor" - as long as you're feeding more than the minimum and less than the maximum (past which you'd get nute burn symptoms) then being EXACT is not of extreme importance.

Then there's the fact that some organic fertilizers/additives (not primarily composed of nutrient salts) won't read near their actual ppms...

So unless you are using pure salts and are measuring each one by weighing (with a very accurate scale) your reading will be "close (hopefully) or at least close enough" but never exactly correct.

Every manufacturer has different mixtures and the safe way to mix is to follow directions for the size of your reservoir and come in on the low at first and then as you become more comfortable with the products, you can start to decrease or increase the mix.

And it doesn't hurt to keep in mind that many indicas are heavy feeders, while many sativas are light ones. But that is by no means a hard and fast rule (SLH, for example, seems to love the nutrients even though it has a good bit of sativa genetics).

Another thing to do is to become a pro at spotting leaf messages. Learn to be able to spot what deficiencies are killing your plants.

Your plants do talk. You just have to learn their language.

Be sure and keep a journal so that you can pass on what you learn through trial and error.

For sure on getting to know what your plants are "saying" and keeping journals so as to refer back to previous grows when you change something so you have a comparison.

my mix is very unorthodox but it works for me. If you are gonna use these 3 Ill give you the recipe. I shared it with GH and at first they said it wouldnt work....they changed their tune after looking at the pics
Obviously I do the same with the bloom mix

Using both Floralicious (Bloom or Grow) and Floralicious Plus at the same time you mean? I'll bet - I couldn't get a definitive answer from them as to what EXACTLY the difference was. Other than (I think) the Plus might have some tiny amount of microbial life in it? Can't remember. Think you traveled into uncharted territory there, lol but it - obviously - is working well for you. I hope they sent you some free products in return for your sending them the free knowledge. Think that Swim guy would be interested in that knowledge (but I heard somewhere that he uses the 3-part Flora instead of the Flora Nova, along with F+, FloraBlend, Flora Nectar, and the odd bit of "weird shit" ).

Floranova just plain works. I have the pics to prove it.
Its supposed to be "organic" it is but not totaly. I dont care...it works great.
If I were to use something different it would be GH's 3 part. I used that my 1st time and it worked great.

Yeah, 3-5 percent "organic" . But I never bothered to pick nutrients for any plant based on whether they were organic or not (never voted a straight ticket either, lol). Like you, I figure what works great is the best indicator of what should be used. (I just never managed to decide completely what the definitive answer was.)

 

[Bolivar]

Crashing your thread, hope y'all don't mind a novelette. Some of it might actually be on-topic.

<snipped for space>

Yeah, 3-5 percent "organic" . But I never bothered to pick nutrients for any plant based on whether they were organic or not (never voted a straight ticket either, lol). Like you, I figure what works great is the best indicator of what should be used. (I just never managed to decide completely what the definitive answer was.)

Very useful info, and I don't think it could have been any shorter in length. Thanks.

 

[StinkFinger]

Let me think...
TDS goes down, water goes down = using water but using more nutrients.
TDS goes up, water goes down = using more water than nutrients.
TDS goes down or stays the same, water goes down, pH gradually climbs = feeding nicely.
Anything and pH tanks = clean the living stuff out of your reservoir, lol (and check your roots).

TS. This is a beautiful quick lesson that gives a great explanation!!!

Thanks man!
SF

 

[gorilla5]

In all probability, it means that your plants have transpired more moisture than they have uptook (uptaken? err... used) nutrients. Let me think... TDS goes down, water goes down = using water but using more nutrients. TDS goes up, water goes down = using more water than nutrients. TDS goes down or stays the same, water goes down, pH gradually climbs = feeding nicely. Anything and pH tanks = clean the living stuff out of your reservoir, lol (and check your roots).

That old Swim feller once did a grow (or two) without changing the reservoir but he doesn't recommend it because checking your TDS or EC will tell you your general nutrient (salt) level but it won't tell you which particular elements the plants used and which ones they left in solution. Continually adding more solution without keeping that in mind can lead to an overabundance of the ones that aren't being used as much. Which can lead to problems down the line. Someone said, "Start growing and you will worry that you don't understand the plants' nutrient relationship. Get a few grows under your belt and you'll feel that you do. Get a few dozen down and you actually might." Until then (and even then), reservoir changes are generally a good idea.



TS Yea I hear you great info. I do change the rez every 7-10 days my problem is they are only 14 gal rez so it cant last a full week without being topped off.
My water goes down nutes go up a little and ph climbs my issues are that i am geting a nitrogen dif around week 3 I run perpetual and it happens on every set 6 sets now and not sure how to fix it . I even changed to different nutes and still the same result any ideas? thanks in advance

 

[The Butcher]

BWC....great to see you. to make the story short Ill just give the quick and dirty.
An Oldhead told me many things. one was 30 hrs down then bloom.
It sends a clear signal to the plant to bloom. It reduces stretch..Butcher has proved in in a test. He took 4 clones from 1 plant. 3 of then were thrown into 12/12 like he does normally. the 4th was aprox 30% shorter and the trunk twice as thick....all 4 same pheno...if my numbers are incorrect Butcher please post it...I might be conservative on the height.
I always do 30 hrs ..........about 25 members here do 30 hrs based on this.
Cervantes says 36 hrs for the same reason. my Oldhead has grown thousands of plants over 30 years..I trust him, I trust Cervantes and Im willing to state it as fact that is works. no doubt that there will be some flak but I dont care.
again...good to see you!!

PIT I just caught up on the thread. Great flip'n thread Bro!!+rep You are correct. You got the numbers right. I back up Pits conclusion to the fullest. YOu got spot on info rollin out. Job well done!!

 

[eBUD]

Very nice thread PitViper. I'm new to hydroponics and setting up my own nute regimen before I grow. This thread of knowledge provides a great stepping stone into the world of hydroponics.

Im glad this site has so many friendly and knowledgable people with real experience. I was actually about to PM PitViper to ask about this very topic. It's not every day when things just work out this easily.

Once again, thank you for all the knowledge and opinions