PH Keeps Rising

[Catwhisperer]

Hi broz,
I set my hydroponic system up 5 days ago, and i'm constantly battling with the PH of my reservoir. Before i go to sleep i set the PH of the tank to 5 ,when i wake up its 7. Before going to work i set it to 5 ,come home 7,7.
At first obviously i tried to go in the 5,5 range ,but there was one time the PH got to 8 while i was doing my daily routine.
I'm not sure wdfq is going on there.
Its a drip system with expended clay in it ,and two plants. The system has been made for 9 plants but i decided to just play around with only two plants till the time everything will be in place (like for example this ph thingy)
Tank is 60 liters PE tank with about 20 liters of nuted tap water mixed with distilled water (tap water + distilled water ppm = around 300).
For PH reduction i use the "Advanced Hydroponics pH-Down Grow" ,dilluted in tap water.

-I'm absolutely sure it is not algae as the system is only 5 days old and the 60 litres reservoir is 2 days old ,and there is close to non light going in to my reservoir.
-I soaked the expended clays in ph adjusted water for a few hours before using.
-My nuts are called: CANNA Aqua Flores

I would really appreciate any kind of help, and if you would need for that any additional information ill got it ready in no time.

What ive done now before writing here ,is place half of the expended clay what i got in water with PH 4 to have a look if the clays are that much alkaline that it causes this.

 

[Catwhisperer]

The water where i put the clay in yesterday raised to ph 6,2. I reduced it now again to 4,to have a look if it is going to get back to 6 at the end of the day or not.
Is this normal? I read on a few sites that it would be enough to place the clay balls in the desired PH leveled water for only a few hours. Now they are in there for 10 hours and it still raises my PH. Should i use a different medium?

 

[Catwhisperer]

Another 10 hours passed and the water where the expanded clay has been soaking got again to PH level of 6,4 from 4 . Im clueless.

 

[Pigeons420]

My resevouir does the same thing. I'm assuming it's because I use tap water and as the chlorine and other minerals evaporate they leave behind other shit that cause the potential hydrogen(PH) to raise.

You using tap water?

 

[Catwhisperer]

I use tap water mixed with distilled water so I have a lower starting ppm. I was just about to go and do a test with a bucket of ph reduced tap water, if it rises to about the same level as the others that would put some light in to this mystery. I already ordered a RO system, so if that's the case the problem will be sorted tomorrow.
Also meanwhile i wrote a mail to the guys from Advanced Hydroponics, maybe they know something i should know, but i don't seem to find any cases where tap water had an effect like this (maybe i'm wrong here). Another thing is ,if the PH down has problems with tap water i would assume that would stay on the label of the product (maybe i'm wrong here again).
Well ,tomorrow ill know a bit more even if its not the solution to my problem

 

[Pigeons420]

Best of luck. Keep me posted!

 

[Catwhisperer]

So here is the data:

Cup with tap water and PH down: Start PH - 1,9 ,Morning PH - 1,3 ,Evening PH 1,4.
Bucket with tap water and PH down: Start PH - 3,3 ,Morning PH - 2,3 ,Evening PH 2,9.
Reservoir tap/distilled water mix on the drip system with nuts and PH down: Start PH - 4,9 ,Morning PH - 4,8 ,Evening PH 5,1.
Reservoir with the clay soaking in PH downed tap water: Start PH - 3 ,Morning PH - 3,5 ,Evening PH 5,6.

I would assume there is something with the clay. Where i didn't put clay ,the PH even dropped in the morning ,then got back to somewhere btw Start and Morning ...honestly i do not have a single clue why that happened.
Where i had clay (system ,and soaking) the PH got higher at the end.

I just read my mail and the nice lads from Advanced Hydroponics of Holland wrote me back that this is too complicated to write in email so if we can we should talk on skype or per phone. Probably ill call them tomorrow as im very curious now.

The interesting thing is that my system got somewhat stable. 4.9-4.8-5.1 compared to a 5,0-7,7-???? jump is a pretty good achievement even if I have no clue what happened there.

 

[Xipp]

It's the Clay Your pellets were made from, Don't panic give the system till your 1st nute change out by then the Ph in your medium should stabilize. This happens to me every time i buy German Hydroton.After 2 weeks or so your ph will remain stable.

 

[Fenderbender]

It's the Clay Your pellets were made from, Don't panic give the system till your 1st nute change out by then the Ph in your medium should stabilize. This happens to me every time i buy German Hydroton.After 2 weeks or so your ph will remain stable.

Ah, I got the tip to wash the pellets real well, and like with the rockwool, soak them in water at pH 5,5 before I used them.
Maybe that helps?

 

[Xipp]

Could not hurt anything by trying to set the Ph... And i always wash my Hydroton real good and i have tried setting my ph by pre-soaking but good ol time seems to work the best...Like i said don't panic..Keep it around 5.8 to 6.0 for 2 weeks and you will be solid...

 

[Catwhisperer]

thanks for your comment. Well ,i soaked half of my hydroton for about 4 days straight now. The PH is still rising ,and I even adjusted it three times to PH 3-5, today it was 6 again (no plants or nuts added ,only PH down tapwater and hydroton).
It is definitely the hydroton as the bucket i made with only tap water and the PH down was around the same PH since 4 days.
By the way, this hydroton is also a German product.

I was on phone with the guys from Advanced Hydroponics of Holland two days ago ,they told me they have never seen something like this before ,and they have experience in this since 40years. But got a lot of other nice advice's

Next step would be to call the guys who made my hydroton and ask them "dfuqmate?!?!?!" Maybe its some kind of batch mistake. Except that it could be my reservoir ,maybe the water takes something out of it?!?! As i soaked my hydroton in the same kind of PE reservoir as i have on my system.

I'll get to the bottom of this even if its the last thing ill do!

 

[mokel]

got the same problem with my hydroton until i used a (much) bigger bucket to soak them with much more water, like 20kg pebbles and 200l water .... tried it in a 40l bucket without success first, ph rising like hell and driving me nuts.

with more water i had to adjust only once a week, with the smaller one, i had to adjust several times a day

seems we got the same batch german hydroton .... xD

 

[Catwhisperer]

Unfortunately im limited in space so im not able to soak it in more water. I got a 60L container ,i was trying in that.
What i did now is : I bought me Hydroton from another producer, and currently im soaking them in PH adjusted water. If i see a enourmus difference btw the two Hydrotons probably im going to change my whole stock.
Also, this i what i used first:

And this is what im testing now:

The Plagron Pebbles look much better then the Leni ones ,but probably that wont sort my problem


My PH is still rising ,but not that much anymore but i would assume this is because i removed most of the pebbles from my system.
I made this small table till now:

I still have to check it daily twice.

 

[Rifleman]

Rinse the hydroton with running water. You want to wash it off . Only after it is clean and no longer muddling up the water is it ready to use. Let your water for the reservoir sit for a few days to evaporate the chlorine. You will probably find it more stable after that. Once you have plants growing and using the water, ph will rise just about everyday. It's just how it is in hydro.

 

[G00ch]

I believe you problem is stemming from the distilled water, there is no buffer in the water when it is distilled so you can and will have insane swings in your ph. My suggestion use your tap water as it contains lots of beneficial nutrients, go to you rlocal grow store that supplies NPK-RAW ingredients. Pick up OmniA(amino acids), kelp, Phosphorus, and potassium. Packages are inexpensive 10-18 a peice and you only use a very very small amount.
Once you have them add in your base nutrients at half strength, and then mix in the OmniA, and Kelp according to your res size you use you only add between 1/8th teaspoon and 1/16 teaspoon per gallon. If you are in veg you can add the phosphorus and it will help stimulate root growth, but only add it for a week or 2.

 

[Maximo]

Hydroton or clay pebbles need conditioning otherwise they will continue to buffer pH higher.
The conditioning process takes four to five days, as tested with several different brands.
Pre-rinse the media until the water is clear then use the following procedure.

Mix a solution of 20 mils hydrochloric acid or 10 mils of phosphoric acid into 500 mils of water.
Then add that to 5 litres of water to every 5 litres of hydroton/clay pebbles.
On the fifth day tip the solution out and refill with plain water.
Leave for another 24 hours and it will be pH stable and ready to use.

Cheers!

 

[tucker99]

Late getting in but I had the exact same problem with hydroton in a waterfarm. Drove me ape-shit and took a lot longer than a couple weeks for it to final come down; more like 5-weeks. I used about 2/3 bottle of PH down. Researched this extensively and seems to be a pretty common problem with new Hydroton. The easy cure is to clean real good and soak in 1-part vinegar and 2-parts water. I couldn't do that without out disrupting my grow so I can't say for sure if it works.

 

[Maximo]

I wouldn't recommend vinegar or citric acid pH adjusters as they degrade in water rapidly becoming ineffective.
A litre of Hydrochloric acid from Bunnings is around $7 and it's 50 times more concentrated than vinegar.
Please remember to wear safety glasses and latex or rubber gloves when pouring out the 20mils and don't breath the vapors.
I have tried both the HCL and Phosphoric acid solutions with successful pH stability of hydroton after 4 days.
And remember to sit them in plain water for another 24 hours to leach out any remaining acid.

 

[Catwhisperer]

Thanks all for the replys. I really appreciate all of your help and will keep in mind probably for ever!

Since some time now the PH is pretty stable, so i assume it was the hydroton. It needed a lot more time then i have read before.

If somebody is reading this post in the future:
-Let thous clay's soak till there is no tomorrow(i have no clue how long ,but I should say weeks probably) ,or don't be surprised if your ph keeps rising.
-Use 50/50 Tap/Osmo to make it sure. I let my Tap water just sit for a few days (no UV or anything) ,then mix them together, except the problem that my trees wont fit in the growtent in about a week everything is more than perfect with them.

 

[fortphoenix]

Thanks all for the replys. I really appreciate all of your help and will keep in mind probably for ever!

Since some time now the PH is pretty stable, so i assume it was the hydroton. It needed a lot more time then i have read before.

If somebody is reading this post in the future:
-Let thous clay's soak till there is no tomorrow(i have no clue how long ,but I should say weeks probably) ,or don't be surprised if your ph keeps rising.
-Use 50/50 Tap/Osmo to make it sure. I let my Tap water just sit for a few days (no UV or anything) ,then mix them together, except the problem that my trees wont fit in the growtent in about a week everything is more than perfect with them.

so you think it was your hydroton that was causing the ph flunctuations? what brand of hydroton? maybe your hydroton had some nasty bacteria or mold in it or something because for it to be so bad that you recommend soaking for weeks and using 50/50 tap/r.o water shows it was really bad and I've never heard of hydroton doing somebody that bad. idk if youve ever heard of al b. fuct but he's like a grow genius on RIU and he's like the king of single cola sea of green but he said almost every time there are big ph swing is because theres some sort of disease or fungus or pathogen problem thats causing it or maybe it was just a bad batch of hydroton but I'm just surprised the problem was bad enough that you recommend soaking for weeks