Perlite layered airgap in coco anyone tried?

[TorturedSoul]

YMMV is an abbreviation for "your mileage may vary."

 

[Roy Growin]

YMMV is an abbreviation for "your mileage may vary."

RWNJTTI?
Really? Why not just type that instead? lol
Not taking the piss, just a pedantic grammarian

 

[TorturedSoul]

RWNJTTI?
Really? Why not just type that instead? lol
Not taking the piss, just a pedantic grammarian

Then perhaps you could explain why you would assume I might think you were stealing my urine?

Cell phone, terrible virtual keyboard application (it's a Samsung device), poor eyesight that doesn't always allow me to spot errors, fingers that do not entirely point in the directions that they once did (arthritis)... and some degree of laziness. OtOH (lol ( )). I do try torestrict my use of abbreviations to the ones that are most commonly used when communicating via electronic devices these days. But that is not a firm rule.

 

[ppm Charlie]

I had the exact thought but I wondered if it may slow down root penetration to the deeper part of the pot ?
I suppose all I can do is try it out with one pot

This stuff is great. Polyester wicking material. Very air, plants love their roots in it. I used it this summer on the inside bottom of my tomato pots to help retain a little moisture after watering. Wicking materials make a great separator for different soilless media components. DIAL DuraCool 33 in. x 160 in. Evaporative Cooler Pad (5)-3079 - The Home Depot and, Evaporative Cooler Pads - Evaporative Cooler Parts & Accessories - The Home Depot.

 

[Roy Growin]

Then perhaps you could explain why you would assume I might think you were stealing my urine?

Cell phone, terrible virtual keyboard application (it's a Samsung device), poor eyesight that doesn't always allow me to spot errors, fingers that do not entirely point in the directions that they once did (arthritis)... and some degree of laziness. OtOH (lol ( )). I do try torestrict my use of abbreviations to the ones that are most commonly used when communicating via electronic devices these days. But that is not a firm rule.

The phrase 'taking the piss' does indeed derive from its use for Nitrogen in the manufacture of gunpowder
Urine was collected in buckets and left outside for the collector for which providers were paid an understandably small amount
Taking the piss was stealing someone else's urine and tipping it into your own bucket
So taken literally, someone taking the piss out of you is robbing you of some dignity or respect to which you are entitled

 

[013]

Good to see you back Tortured Soul ….. was beginning to think ‘Rona got you

 

[TorturedSoul]

I'm still above ground (just not online all that often). I'm even thinking about starting to grow again, if I can figure out how to rig up a ~2'×2'×5.5' grow space. I happened to look at Mars Hydro's website a while back to see if they had any new lights (wow) out of idle curiosity... and saw that they had expanded their line of tents. But $76 might as well be a million. Besides, I've gone through the majority of my seeds with no luck. If you own a working refrigerator, folks, keep your seed collection in it even if you have to tape an envelope to the back of the produce drawer to hide them from the kids. Or, if you don't have a refrigerator, at least find a cooler place to store them... than a miserable attic bedroom that tops 100°F on those sunny Summer days. And to think of all those seeds I wasted by forgetting they were soaking in cups of water for so long that I finally returned to find a tiny dry, dead seedling stuck to the bottom, lofl. Karma, I suppose.

Anyway, yes, I'm still healthy virus-free (knocks wood like a woodpecker). Combination of some common sense and much paranoia - plus, not being around many people - has served as a shield, I suppose, at least so far (woodpecker refrain). I worry more about Mom than myself. She's in her 80s, COPD, congestive heart failure, broke down and went to the doctor earlier this year to see if she had the virus (nope, just the end of a bout of pneumonia, it turned out), a few more "little issues, " and getting kind of frail. She needs me to help more, these days, and I'm not always up to the walk across town (although I'm hoping that cooler weather will make it a little easier to breathe), so a few times she's called for assistance and I didn't make it until the next day. Hey - I did finally manage to quit smoking, after trying off and on for decades. Just... not soon enough, I guess. <SHRUGS>. Life, yeah? Finally broke down and signed up for food stamps (which, it turns out, aren't stamps at all), so I'm eating better than I have in, well, years. So there's that. And we're coming up on that short period of time when a person is neither sweating nor shivering. Things could be worse.

EDIT: Whoops, that was a ramble and a half. Hey, @Grower2020 , if you do experiment with layers of perlite and coco, will you also run a "control " plant in either 100% coco or a regular mix of it and perlite? If so, and if you end up posting a grow journal, please post a link so that we can follow along and maybe learn something in the process.

 

[Southerncough]

Why make things more complicated than needed and use a small fabric pot full of coco? Once the plant gets going the media will dry and draw oxygen from all directions. Let the roots fill it out and she'll develop a daily wet/dry cycle

 

[nickeluring]

Pure coco holds about 30% air when saturated. Why would you want to give it more air?
I never add any Perlite to my coco since it's not needed and I get better results without it. The fine hairs on the roots get better contact with the substrate if pure coco is used, and that makes the nutrient uptake more efficient. An air layer of Perlite in the soil I reckon would slow down the root development, just from comparing how the roots look like when they grow out of the coco into the bottom drainage layer in my pots. But I use clay balls, so it's different to Perlite.
But who knows until it's been tested. I would love to see a comparison between 2 plants where only one has a Perlite layer.
In soil I always use Perlite, but that's different...

 

[Roy Growin]

Pure coco holds about 30% air when saturated. Why would you want to give it more air?
I never add any Perlite to my coco since it's not needed and I get better results without it. The fine hairs on the roots get better contact with the substrate if pure coco is used, and that makes the nutrient uptake more efficient. An air layer of Perlite in the soil I reckon would slow down the root development, just from comparing how the roots look like when they grow out of the coco into the bottom drainage layer in my pots. But I use clay balls, so it's different to Perlite.
But who knows until it's been tested. I would love to see a comparison between 2 plants where only one has a Perlite layer.
In soil I always use Perlite, but that's different...

Hey @nickeluring - There will be no discernible difference
Folks tend to go for supposedly 'best practice' when in fact no such thing exists
Ideal might be the the last 5% top up, but if the other 95% isn't correct, you're wasting your time from day one in my view

 

[Grower2020]

Day 27 zkittlez autoflower
Well here is my progress on my third experiment in coco within about 35days .
It's kinda gone from an experiment with no expectations to a promising project now. If it keeps going this way there is no way I'm going back to soil unless I'm outdoors.
Very very happy with the progress and the ability to fix mistakes super fast .

 

[Roy Growin]

Day 27 zkittlez autoflower
Well here is my progress on my third experiment in coco within about 35days .
It's kinda gone from an experiment with no expectations to a promising project now. If it keeps going this way there is no way I'm going back to soil unless I'm outdoors.
Very very happy with the progress and the ability to fix mistakes super fast .

Welcome to coco land @Grower2020

 

[Grower2020]

I agree with all comments here, and some funny ones too from @Growings and @TorturedSoul regarding ymmv funny buggers. And lads my main aim is to target the seedling stage as I have lost young seedlings to overwatering in pure coco in big pots so as in previous discussions I believe the 30% oxygen rule doesn't apply to seedlings as my experience with starting seedlings in final pot and saturating whole pot ended badly .
So in an effort to accelerate young roots I'm going to try a perlite or hydroton layer . Not very thick but thick enough, maybe once inch which roots could grow through in 24-48hrs allowing young plants struggling for air in final pots, to be able to thrive in these bigger pots. Can't hurt to experiment and put two babies side by side , one with pure coco no air gap and the other, purr coco with perlite/hydroton air gap.
And soak both pots from about day 3 or 4 to runoff . I bet the one that allows more air to the seedling blows the purr coco pot out of the water in the first ten days for speedy growth

 

[Grower2020]

Welcome to coco land @Grower2020

Thanks brother, do they look ok to you? Perky enough?

 

[Roy Growin]

I agree with all comments here, and some funny ones too from @Growings and @TorturedSoul regarding ymmv funny buggers. And lads my main aim is to target the seedling stage as I have lost young seedlings to overwatering in pure coco in big pots so as in previous discussions I believe the 30% oxygen rule doesn't apply to seedlings as my experience with starting seedlings in final pot and saturating whole pot ended badly .
So in an effort to accelerate young roots I'm going to try a perlite or hydroton layer . Not very thick but thick enough, maybe once once which roots could grow through in 24-48hrs allowing young plants struggling for air in final pots, to be able to thrive in these bigger pots. Can't hurt to experiment and put two babies side by side , one with pure coco no air gap and the other, purr coco with perlite/hydroton air gap.
And soak both pots from about day 3 or 4 to runoff . I bet the one that allows more air to the seedling blows the purr coco pot out of the water in the first ten days for speedy growth

Cool give it a go, it won't do any harm at all
I would be very happy with those plants, they are looking great mate
After your tribulations, it's great to see you getting some good results
Are you now officially a coco convert? lol

 

[Grower2020]

Cool give it a go, it won't do any harm at all
I would be very happy with those plants, they are looking great mate
After your tribulations, it's great to see you getting some good results
Are you now officially a coco convert? lol

Im now officially a coco convert, but I don't want to jinx myself before the harvest is done and dusted but i can't see much going wrong from here on out because I've got my nutes dialed in, making sure I'm getting enough runoff with every plant every time to avoid high runoff ec which would mean build up of old nutes. So I'm confident if I keep feeding to 30% runoff every time and keep my ph and nute strength dialed in not much can really go wrong now

 

[Roy Growin]

Im now officially a coco convert, but I don't want to jinx myself before the harvest is done and dusted but i can't see much going wrong from here on out because I've got my nutes dialed in, making sure I'm getting enough runoff with every plant every time to avoid high runoff ec which would mean build up of old nutes. So I'm confident if I keep feeding to 30% runoff every time and keep my ph and nute strength dialed in not much can really go wrong now

Yep! This is why coco devotees are so adamant it is the best once you got a handle on the watering

 

[Grower2020]

Yep! This is why coco devotees are so adamant it is the best once you got a handle on the watering

Yep can fully understand why now. To begin with its not for the faint hearted though. Have to be dedicated and able to adapt and change your way of thinking immediately things aren't working, try and fail, from and fail, then maybe success upon success . It's worth failing a couple of times to experience the perfection that coco can provide. Wouldn't mind doing a super coco and gaia green amendments grow one day also . Bit of castings in there too. And just follow mrcanucks methods n see how it goes. You would have heard of canuck yeah ?

 

[Southerncough]

I usually mix worm castings in my coco. At least 25%. I used to add perlite too but it's annoying when it floats to the top or when i dump my used media in the yard/garden and it floats away during heavy rain. So instead i just use smaller fabric pots and the coco will naturally aerate when the plants pulls moisture from the coco

 

[Roy Growin]

Yep can fully understand why now. To begin with its not for the faint hearted though. Have to be dedicated and able to adapt and change your way of thinking immediately things aren't working, try and fail, from and fail, then maybe success upon success . It's worth failing a couple of times to experience the perfection that coco can provide. Wouldn't mind doing a super coco and gaia green amendments grow one day also . Bit of castings in there too. And just follow mrcanucks methods n see how it goes. You would have heard of canuck yeah ?

Canuck? Nope
I just use coco, no guessing games