PC Case Micro SCRoG Grow

It they were my plants I would assume they were hungry and a little bit heat stressed. I would re-add the nutes. Almost all of the h202 will have degraded into just water in 12-24 hours. If you keep the res cool you should be able to stall the problem until you can get some conditioner. Since you have organic nutes, you may want to consider adding beneficial bacteria/fungi, after you sterilize, to displace future infections. I can not say how well that works.

I was taught to keep it simple, and to me that means running a sterile res. But each person has their own situation and requirements.

Good news is they are getting older and they will do everything they can to help you help them. Once they have more mass above and below, they will be more naturally resistant to infections and stress.
 
Okay, update...

I've cleaned & flushed out the reservoir and here's some notes I've taken:

-The roots are much whiter than a few days ago, but a bit of brown nasties still remained, so I sprayed the roots down again with 3% H202 and they liked that..By the time I had returned with the clean res with the nute solution, the roots had whitened even more.

-Yes, the lower fan leaves had started to yellow, but plenty of green growth coming out of the top. The lower fan leaves have crisped up a little and are obviously in the process of dying.

So I added in 1/3 strength nutes in pH 5.8 water. Hopefully they'll bounce back. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Butcher,

No, I don't have any hydroton in there. My mesh cups are so small that I would merely be adding a tiny top layer of hydroton. So it's just rockwool with a foil cover over the mesh basket.

Keeping my fingers crossed. :confused:
 
Myzz,

That's my plan depending on what I can harvest. If I can get 1/2-3/4 ounce per plant, that would give me enough time to grow another batch from seeds, since i use a vaporizer. If I get less than that, I think I'm going to need to build a veg box for a mother plant.

We'll see. Harvest seems like an eternity away since I'm so early into this.
 
Ok, so finally a picture update.

And I'm here to say.............

:cheertwo: Both girls rebounded and are pumping out green new growth and getting a bit taller too! Just a little bit though. I know I shouldn't be too excited at this stage, but they look better. A lot better. The fan leaves are showing the damage from earlier, but after two rounds of H202 and H20 and some direct spraying of H202 on the roots, they're doing great. I'm going to leave the fans on until they totally dry up and die, then I'll remove them.

I owe the rebound to you fine folks on here. I was getting disappointed, big time disappointed that I may have messed things up once again. But, no sir, these girls want to live!

So I'm thinking maybe I'll change my reservoir twice a week instead of once to help prevent root rot. Any input? Also, Friday I'm going to pick up some Root Zone. I was reading Dutch Masters info on Root Zone and either they didn't say it or I missed the part where Root Zone is incompatible with organic nutes.

The roots are sprouting off a bunch of little roots right now that are pretty bright white.

I am amazed at how resilient these girls are for their age. So, hopefully this was a lesson learned..:phew:

Here are some pics..
rsz_rebounding_pics_001.jpg

New Green Growth

rsz_rebounding_pics_002.jpg

New Green Growth

rsz_rebounding_pics_003.jpg

More greenage

Oh and yes, I'm still keeping the moist cloth over the res. I just took it off for the pictures.
 
So I'm thinking maybe I'll change my reservoir twice a week instead of once to help prevent root rot. Any input? Also, Friday I'm going to pick up some Root Zone. I was reading Dutch Masters info on Root Zone and either they didn't say it or I missed the part where Root Zone is incompatible with organic nutes.
Click to expand...

The best thing to do is call the manufacturer of either zone or your nutes and ask. Looking at some posts, it looks like some ppl do run zone with organics and have no problems, but I would want an official answer. There are also ppl who run h2o2 with organics and seem to do OK, but we know the official answer to that is 'no no'.

Changing res more often is a way to help keep root rot in check because it reduces the spore load, but I would try changing it just every 7-10 days if you do not see it return. Hate to waste nutes.
 
Because your res is so small, more frequent res changes would probably be a good thing. (twice a week maybe) Many Deep Water Culture I have talked with agree an "air bath" (letting the roots air out of the res) for 10 minutes twice a week has been accompanied by growth spurts. Glad to see the ladies are perking up!
 
Well...(sigh)...

If these girls are to bear any fruit for me, they're gonna kick my ass on the way to it.

Got home tonight, checked the res..Coated in slime..just BOOM..that fast. I left for work today, everything looked okay. pH was sitting at 5.9. I was off to another day of thinking about them vegging out.

So, I did an emergency room procedure and doused them in H202 and took a q-tip soaked in H202 and gently, gently cleaned the roots off. As I poured H202 on it, the scum just disintegrated. The roots got fairly white again, but they're still a slight bit dingy. Filled my res with clean pH water, H202 and put the girls in & I'm hoping for the best. I don't have a good feeling about it this time.

So I think I've learned two things...

I need to move away from organic nutes if this is the downside to it because the heat I'm dealing with is unforgiving. My box temp is still 80.5F throughout the day. Cools down to 77 at night, that's with the CFLs running 24/7. Now the plants aren't drinking a lot of water..maybe 1/8 gallon per day.

For whatever reason, these nutes aren't liking the condition they're put under. So I think I need to move away to another brand.

Suggestions are welcome.

The next person that says "oh weed is easy to grow. Just plop a seed down and bam...pot!" can kiss my ass. That's for damn certain.
 
PlayLoud said:
Well...(sigh)...

If these girls are to bear any fruit for me, they're gonna kick my ass on the way to it.

Got home tonight, checked the res..Coated in slime..just BOOM..that fast. I left for work today, everything looked okay. pH was sitting at 5.9. I was off to another day of thinking about them vegging out.

So, I did an emergency room procedure and doused them in H202 and took a q-tip soaked in H202 and gently, gently cleaned the roots off. As I poured H202 on it, the scum just disintegrated. The roots got fairly white again, but they're still a slight bit dingy. Filled my res with clean pH water, H202 and put the girls in & I'm hoping for the best. I don't have a good feeling about it this time.

So I think I've learned two things...

I need to move away from organic nutes if this is the downside to it because the heat I'm dealing with is unforgiving. My box temp is still 80.5F throughout the day. Cools down to 77 at night, that's with the CFLs running 24/7. Now the plants aren't drinking a lot of water..maybe 1/8 gallon per day.

For whatever reason, these nutes aren't liking the condition they're put under. So I think I need to move away to another brand.

Suggestions are welcome.

The next person that says "oh weed is easy to grow. Just plop a seed down and bam...pot!" can kiss my ass. That's for damn certain.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it play...

Say bro I noticed you have foil to cover your mesh cups and rockwool. That might be another thing you might want to change. The foil might be trapping heat under the cup allowing root rot and high res temps. If you can get some white or black hefty trash bag and cut it into a small cube shape with a slit running threw the center to place around the plant. I'm not saying it will solve your problems bro, but it will be better then using foil. Remember foil is used to trap heat not reflect light homie.... :ganjamon:
 
PlayLoud said:
Got home tonight, checked the res..Coated in slime..just BOOM..that fast. I left for work today, everything looked okay. pH was sitting at 5.9. I was off to another day of thinking about them vegging out.

So, I did an emergency room procedure and doused them in H202 and took a q-tip soaked in H202 and gently, gently cleaned the roots off. As I poured H202 on it, the scum just disintegrated. The roots got fairly white again, but they're still a slight bit dingy. Filled my res with clean pH water, H202 and put the girls in & I'm hoping for the best. I don't have a good feeling about it this time.
Click to expand...

Slime, huh? Got any recognized plant experts that you can take a sample to? (Guessing you could scrape some off and tell them it was from a different sort of plant.) Could it be one of those beneficial organisms that break food down into its component parts for the plant - that can become parasitic under the right (wrong) conditions?

I've read that some organics don't work well in oxygenated reservoirs. Not my area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it might have been something to do with them having evolved to survive as species in soil conditions (part of which includes having controls in place to ensure that they do not over-breed) and then placing them in a highly-oxygenated, nutritious, and (relatively) warm environment which you could say is probably what you'd end up with if you meant to design a special-purpose incubator for them... and without their natural predators/competitors in the mix, they could be breeding beyond rampantly.

As stated, I don't know, this is guesswork on my part.

BtW, when you wash the stuff off of your roots, are they completely healthy? IOW, is it just a matter of them "choking" the roots from receiving oxygen, from receiving nutrients, or perhaps even that they might be receiving too high of a concentration (or the wrong proportions) of nutrients?

I'm not suggesting that you try leaving the slime on the roots, lol. Just attempting to learn what I can.

PlayLoud said:
So I think I've learned two things...

I need to move away from organic nutes if this is the downside to it because the heat I'm dealing with is unforgiving. My box temp is still 80.5F throughout the day. Cools down to 77 at night, that's with the CFLs running 24/7. Now the plants aren't drinking a lot of water..maybe 1/8 gallon per day.

For whatever reason, these nutes aren't liking the condition they're put under. So I think I need to move away to another brand.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't blame the heat alone - I'd seen 100F+ temperatures at times at canopy-height in DWC with an un-chilled reservoir (occasionally I was able to direct air from an a/c vent into that particular space). NOT good conditions at all, admittedly, but the roots were a beautiful white ("non-organic" grow).

So yeah, I'm guessing that the organics, your level (and method) of oxygenation, any microbial life in the reservoir, and yes perhaps the temperatures all are playing a part. Could be anything. With plants that small I wouldn't expect that your nutrient-level is strong at all (in fact, it should be mild as mild can get); if you ARE mixing at a stronger level then what you're feeding IS the microbial life.

I never bothered to cover my pots with aluminum foil. Is that because you had algae growing on your hydroton at some point? Someone told me once that when you injected mad amounts of air into a reservoir, you needed an exit for it and I just figured that since the rest of the reservoir was "sealed" that the pots were as good a place as any and that the air flowing up through the hydroton/root area probably wouldn't be a bad thing. But then again I was using two strong air pumps per reservoir, each with at least two long airstones running from the pumps - and an aquarium powerhead. (I was also told that if you supplied enough O2 to a plant's roots that the plant would be surprisingly hard to kill. That, at least, turned out to be true (for me).) And the reservoirs were much larger.

Hey, I just realized that your reservoir is white. Is there any light getting through it? Think I've read that not all algae requires light (and of that which doesn't, that some of it looks like... brown slime. But still, lol).

PlayLoud said:
Suggestions are welcome.
Click to expand...

Get a MUCH bigger reservoir!

If you cannot figure out exactly what is causing your issues with organics - and how to correct the conditions that allow it to occur - then switch to a "non-organic" form of nutrient.

STERILIZE everything. Your plants are young enough that you'll not be losing much (other than a few headaches, lol) and sometimes starting over from step one ends up being the most productive (at harvest time) answer.

PlayLoud said:
The next person that says "oh weed is easy to grow. Just plop a seed down and bam...pot!" can kiss my ass. That's for damn certain.
Click to expand...

I won't say it then:grinjoint:. But - having seen it growing up from a crack in the sidewalk, and outside my brother's window that he used to toss seeds out of when I was young, and in that overheated reservoir I described above after forgetting to arrange to have someone care for it when we went on vacation and returning to find nothing but a small "puddle" and some damp roots in it and then still having a decent harvest, and... - well, you will perhaps forgive me for thinking it?

Many of us didn't know a thing when we first started. First grow, beginner's luck - great harvest. Second grow, used what we learned in the first grow - slightly better harvest. Third grow, thought we knew everything, went out and bought a bunch of nutrients/supplements, spent an incredible amount of time and effort caring for our plants - dismal harvest, lmao.

Maybe you've just "lucked" into skipping the first two? I think that sometimes we can "care" our plants to death without meaning to do any harm whatsoever.

I just realized that I'm quite happily-medicated (something I've managed to become NOT accustomed to lately, alas) and rambling. Feel free to disregard my words as they've probably gone barking....
 
I also am probably too stoned to be responding...

If I wanted a bigger res but couldn't upgrade due to the size of the grow chamber, I would consider a control bucket. A bigger res that sits beside the case and is connected to the smaller res with a pump circulating the water. The control bucket could also be used to place ice packs in. But that would probably effect the stealth factor. I too wondered about the white lid on the res in the pics, seems like light could shine through that easily. As for the foil covers, They might be helping to trap heat, if the res is hot. If it's chilled, they could help insulate and keep it cool. In any case once your plants get bigger they will provide shade, and you do some DM zone treatments, algae will be much less of a threat, so the foil can come off. Just be mindful that debris doesn't make it's way into the res.

Pretty sure what you are seeing on the roots is not natural. The natural slime that can accumulate on the roots is not aggressive. As roots grow, they discard cells, which can form a slimy coating. In soil, this helps lubricate the root to make it travel through dirt easier. The cells also act as a food source for beneficial microbes. The perfect DWC would probably try to accommodate this. That's why there is debate about sterile res vs colonized res. The best scenario is probably to encourage the good microbes, instead of killing them off for fear of the bad ones taking over. But we are often not in the perfect situation. Some root death is also part of a plants natural life cycle. A few dead or dying roots here and there is no cause for concern.

I've found that meticulously cleaning everything daily is a waste of time when i've been in the situation you are in right now. The slime seems to come back at the same rate no matter what. I gave up and resigned to just changing the water and treating with h2o2 until my DM zone arrived. Once I was ready to add that, I did thoroughly clean my container, air stones, air line, ect before putting it in.

As for nutes, I use the standard three part GH flora series simply because it's cheap. I can recommend them to the point of saying that they work just fine, but they are all I've ever used so I can't compare them to anything else. The good news is that you can run root zone along with them until your roots look better, instead of depriving the girls of food while you flush.

Good luck
 
Thanks guys for all the responses.

Okay, to answer the 1st question. My res temperature is 75.7 degrees F. I have a digital thermometer that is very accurate. I don't know if that's too high or not, but judging by the fact that the plants are only drinking about 1/8 of the res per day, I wouldn't assume heat is too much of an issue in the res.

No, this slime was not natural. The airstone was COATED in that shit yesterday, along with the roots. The good news is that they've bounced back and in pure H20 with the H202 solution, the roots look great once again, plenty of little feeder roots developing off of there. My case temp is staying at 80.1 steady. All in all not bad.

After doing some research :reading420magazine:, the organic nutes tend to not like too high of an oxygenated mixture, or at least that seems to be the consensus from what I've read. I think I'm just going to switch to GH nutes and the DM Root Zone and see what happens. I'll talk to a couple of the grow pros there at the store who are pretty knowledgeable. If I continue to have these problems, I'm going to do the external res with a pump and just do a top feed bubble system.

I'll let you know what I end up with tonight. In the meantime, I'm jealous of all you who are stoned right now. I've got to go make myself a pickup of some killer bud later on. It'll be the 1st I've had in a few weeks, so I should be lit up like a roman candle tonight. :ganjamon:

Thanks again..

I agree about the "caring for them to death"...I can see where that can easily become an issue.
 
You need to check out the links in my sig brother.
Specifically:
Temps and Humidity in Deep Water Culture
and the Trouble Shooting Guide

They should set you straight :ganjamon:

Ideal res temp is 65°, but 60°-75° is supposed to be OK (over 70° can cause root rot)
and H2O2 is your closest friend for the slime (looks like root rot)
The smaller the res, the harder to maintain, I like the suggestion of a Control Bucket if you can swing it.
 
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