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Savvage61
Well-Known Member
Remember the big PARAQUAT scare
Pawpaw Medicine Tent 2.0 Perpetual Grow Journal
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Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi Savvage, all is good here.
Geoflora requires top feeding, so even in SIP I dutifully fed once every two weeks. There is no need to supplement EWC at that point, but it is recommended to give extra K all through the grow and P during bloom.
I have stuck with GF because it works. I was looking for the rock bottom easiest way to grow organically, and I found it in GF.
So let me ask about your LOS. Did you rush it in the cooking department? Why is it failing you? Are you adding extra microbes? Are you using chlorinated water?
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Savvage61
Well-Known Member
No I used a pre-mix pre-cooked Indicanj from purple cow
Becuase Im a dumb azz lol after my issues with my SWICK being packed full of roots I transported soil and plant into a 5 gal Gro Bucket SIP. indicanja recommends a minum 7.5 gallon or bigger after switching containers. Im lucky if I have 4 gallons of LOS left in the pot. I think a lot of my problems is I have to many root without the soil to feed them. I have more colored leaves than a rainbow, every time I turn around I have a new issue
I hope not,lol I am filling my jugs thru a PUR filter then I add some Vitamin C for the chloramine and leaving jugs open for 24 to 48 hrs everything I read or been told says it gets rid of the chlorines (I hope)
I have been so frustrated I wanna throw my plants in the worm bed and go back to My tried and proven FF and GF, and NEVER EVER trying changing 2 major things(soil and method) in one grow. I havent switched to flower. yet Im waiting on happy plants first
Here is the real kicker I leaned into my tent and balanced myself by putting 1 hand on my portable AC. seems I accidently put it on dehumidify which set the ac to 60* which means the air it is pushing is much colder and the AC was blowing extremely cold air on the roots of one plant and all the little new growth turned yellow Kind looks like a Daisy plant
I know it is not nessacary But I am starting to PH 6.2- 6.5, my water to fill the Res (waste of time?) I also been adding cal/mag and top dressing EWC
if it is ok I will double check some things with you before I start my next grow. I am finishing this one if it kills me lol
when you say feed every 2 weeks does that include top water once every 2 weeks? with the los I am using they recommend CX-1 which is thier brand of tea , full of many diffrenent microbes, Like an organic steroid is how they explained it.
Under the correct conditions I belive the the indicanja Is great stuff . I just added to many variables to something I know very little about * I know a lot more now, The hard way
Thx E'm have a great day
I have some Geo flora grows outside That look amazing, that is the only thing that has kept me sane
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I like the looks of that soil and am considering using something like that in the future to get away from having to feed at all during the time in the sip. I am seeing indications that some of these commercial super soils are actually a little light compared to SubCool or Coot, so instead of just using 1/3 of the container of supersoil, it seems better to go with the full pot. Size does matter too, and the little container you are in most definitely has contributed to the problems you are seeing.
With geoflora I was forced to top water not just on the day of the application, but also a week later, just to get a second dose of the nutrient to go below the surface. I got geoflora to work in that environment, but it was more of a challenge than a SIP should be, having to keep track of upper and lower waterings.
Most of your problems this grow are likely due to the changeover from swick to a less than optimum sized pot, so I wouldn't gauge the effectiveness of anything you did this grow on the outcome of this one.
The cx-1 sounds like good stuff so I wouldnt hesitate using it, and it will supplement the microbes coming in with every watering of the geoflora.
With geoflora I was forced to top water not just on the day of the application, but also a week later, just to get a second dose of the nutrient to go below the surface. I got geoflora to work in that environment, but it was more of a challenge than a SIP should be, having to keep track of upper and lower waterings.
Most of your problems this grow are likely due to the changeover from swick to a less than optimum sized pot, so I wouldn't gauge the effectiveness of anything you did this grow on the outcome of this one.
The cx-1 sounds like good stuff so I wouldnt hesitate using it, and it will supplement the microbes coming in with every watering of the geoflora.
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Savvage61
Well-Known Member
Thx E'm as always right on point.
I cant wait till this grow is over. who knows something might happen and end being up my best grow ever. then I woke up
Yes, they are most certainly weaker, and almost always recommend 100% of their soil in the pots. I’ve personally experienced this which is what pushed me to doing it myself.
Absolutely. For example, Coast of Maine’s super soil called Stonington Blend recommends using a 15 gallon container minimum for their soil. If you go lower than that you HAVE to top dress to be able to finish. Their 1.5 cu ft bag will fill a 15 gallon container but it costs 32$ per bag where I am. That gets costly quickly and if I go any lower than 15 gallons I automatically have additional costs from top dressing.
They also seem to be on the lighter side mineral wise. Magnesium was a reoccurring issue for me in anything less than 15 gallons.
Like most things it’s a balancing act. You can go water only with the commercial super soils if you’re willing to fill 15 gallon containers and up. If you go below that, you WILL have to amend/top dress to finish off.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
or make your own legit supersoil and cook it for a few months
This is a valuable observation. What is the difference between a complete LOS and a so-called super soil? What elevates LOS to super soil level? For instance, I use a craft soil that I describe as LOS. It is a water only soil.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Think of LOS like a self sustaining terrarium. Maintaining one is almost like a hobby within the hobby. Everything it needs to sustain life is in there, and can include critters of various kinds, bacteria and fungi from the forest floor are very popular, as well as companion plants that help sustain the tiny ecosystem. Supplement it now and then with what gets depleted, and its a great way to grow pot.
Supersoil is a super mineralized soil. It is chock full of every element that can be stuffed in there and then it is composted for a time to merge all of this into a super rich substance called supersoil. It is intended to be too hot to grow in and a proper supersoil could easily burn plants to a cinder. A real supersoil, not this half strength stuff being sold commercially, is intended to make available everything that the grow could want, locked up in the soil where it takes a little effort to get to it... and this effort needs to be done by microbes. A supersoil out of the bin will have the microbes that are responsible for the breakdown and the formation of the soil, but not necessarily the microbes needed to grow plants.
Subcool recommended that we use the bottom 1/3 of the container to hold the supersoil, that was all that was needed. The rest of the container was to be filled with a lesser base soil, and maybe supplemented with layers and spikes of various nutrients as the Rev taught us with his TLO method. To activate things, specific compost teas were needed, so that different microbes would be created to fulfil the duties at all the stages of the plant's growth. Different teas served different purposes, whereas a common crude compost tea would bring us right back to the composting stage, not the growing stage that is needed. Specific teas were hard to make and required study and specialized equipment back in the day, but today things are much different. When RealGrower's Recharge came out with all the needed growth microbes in a freeze dried instant tea, Supersoil and grow methods like TLO really became popular. I consider a supersoil grow, supplemented with spikes and layers of raw nutrient in the base soil layer to be the very best way, hands down, to grow pot. No nutrients needed, truly water and microbes only.
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Savvage61
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well I officially killed my first Pot plant I froze it to death 
portable ac has a de-humidifier built in it sets the thermostat to 60 *F I bumped my plant right next to the vent and she died 2 days later
But I have a Kosher Haze I been growing outside so My intentions are to to add her to my scrog in p0lace of my frozen grimm truffle POP. I expect adaption issues any warnings or suggestion?
portable ac has a de-humidifier built in it sets the thermostat to 60 *F I bumped my plant right next to the vent and she died 2 days laterBut I have a Kosher Haze I been growing outside so My intentions are to to add her to my scrog in p0lace of my frozen grimm truffle POP. I expect adaption issues any warnings or suggestion?
Correct, which is what I wound up doing. The soil just couldn’t keep up. If it made it through Veg it almost always crapped out at the same time stretch finishes which is the worst time to crap out lol.
You (Emilya) likely already know what I’m about to say but I’ll say it for the group.
The cost difference on commercial SS is still extreme enough that creating your own super soil is a cost effective solution if you’re going to be growing more than a handful of plants throughout the year. You can go a little cheaper than FFOF on your potting mix base to squeeze out even more value if you want but personally I prefer to start with a better quality potting mix like FFOF. I’m gonna be using it for a few years at least so I want a strong jumping point.
You could technically create a strong SS by amending a commercial SS but in my opinion you’re just throwing money away when FFOF can do just as good for half the price.
All of this!
If you want to reach the genetic max potential of a plant (any plant, not just cannabis), this is the way to do it. You will have large yields of high quality cannabis with taste and scent profiles unimaginable to your average smoker. Your palette will eventually be able to pickup on slight variations in nutrient levels during the grow if you’re successful.
One thing to note in regard to microbes and cannabis. Cannabis seeds contain generations worth of microbes and bacteria both on and in the seeds. The moment the seed cracks open, an entire lineage worth of microbes and bacteria jump out and into the environment around them to get to work. These bacteria are responsible for everything from PM resistance to trichome development. These are the microbes the plant and it’s ancestors have spent their entire existence cultivating for their purposes. The ratios and balances differ from strain to strain and even from phenotype to phenotype. Once they are lost, they’re lost forever. You can reintroduce the majority of them but it will never be quite the same, until science figures this out Ofc. So for folks who soak their seeds or use a paper towel you risk handicapping yourself out of the gate unless you pour that water or plant that paper towel into your medium.
Losing these microbes doesn’t mean all hope is lost and your harvest will suck, but it does mean your plant will be inherently weaker and will not be able to achieve its maximum genetic potential. The reference for this information is:
Teaming With Bacteria by Jeff Lowenfels
You’ll notice in that 4th picture Jeff Lowenfels goes so far as to recommend strain specific soils for reuse. It’s wild stuff lol
Great post K, but I don't see veg times posted. Yield is base on the maturity of the plants ( exclude) autos. ( Indoors )Not from soil, which helps of course but a smaller percentage.Correct, which is what I wound up doing. The soil just couldn’t keep up. If it made it through Veg it almost always crapped out at the same time stretch finishes which is the worst time to crap out lol.
You (Emilya) likely already know what I’m about to say but I’ll say it for the group.
The cost difference on commercial SS is still extreme enough that creating your own super soil is a cost effective solution if you’re going to be growing more than a handful of plants throughout the year. You can go a little cheaper than FFOF on your potting mix base to squeeze out even more value if you want but personally I prefer to start with a better quality potting mix like FFOF. I’m gonna be using it for a few years at least so I want a strong jumping point.
You could technically create a strong SS by amending a commercial SS but in my opinion you’re just throwing money away when FFOF can do just as good for half the price.
All of this!
If you want to reach the genetic max potential of a plant (any plant, not just cannabis), this is the way to do it. You will have large yields of high quality cannabis with taste and scent profiles unimaginable to your average smoker. Your palette will eventually be able to pickup on slight variations in nutrient levels during the grow if you’re successful.
One thing to note in regard to microbes and cannabis. Cannabis seeds contain generations worth of microbes and bacteria both on and in the seeds. The moment the seed cracks open, an entire lineage worth of microbes and bacteria jump out and into the environment around them to get to work. These bacteria are responsible for everything from PM resistance to trichome development. These are the microbes the plant and it’s ancestors have spent their entire existence cultivating for their purposes. The ratios and balances differ from strain to strain and even from phenotype to phenotype. Once they are lost, they’re lost forever. You can reintroduce the majority of them but it will never be quite the same, until science figures this out Ofc. So for folks who soak their seeds or use a paper towel you risk handicapping yourself out of the gate unless you pour that water or plant that paper towel into your medium.
Losing these microbes doesn’t mean all hope is lost and your harvest will suck, but it does mean your plant will be inherently weaker and will not be able to achieve its maximum genetic potential. The reference for this information is:
Teaming With Bacteria by Jeff Lowenfels
Flower small plants, you get a small yield.
What really helps my situation out is to build a strong root base in 1 gallons before finals..
Cheers
Good reminder
So when I talk about stuff like this there is a standard I operate from:
From seed, Veg is ALWAYS at LEAST 54 days (54 days above ground). I usually go to 60 days just to keep the numbers even and coordinated in my head. If you’re not growing to 54 days minimum you’re already putting yourself behind. Some plants are faster, some are slower but 60 days will get you where you need to be across all strains/phenotypes. Clones are a little different but regardless, you want to be certain your plant is sexually mature and ready for flower.
Rushing Veg will hurt you in the long run on yield and quality just as much if not more so than most nutrient issues/soils/methods/etc. When I talk about reaching maximum potential, it’s assumed everything else is dialed in like vegging for 60 days
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Savvage61
Well-Known Member
Thank you guys for adding this content I havent given up on super soil, but next time I cant skimp. I need to get some bigger pots. a local place had the Big bags 1.5 cf of FFOF come out to just under $13 a bag, I have 8 big bags next the 15 gal pots I still need 2 55 gal drums. Im to old to mix it everyday But I can roll it lol.
I need to do a few GF/sip To get my confidence back, between my Gnat fungus on my last grow and the nightmare im going thru now. Thats 2 not the best grows in a row. dont make me feel much like a pot farmer
I souldnt complain these have been tough but i gotta remember the good grows
This grow isnt over yet *I did replace my dead Plant with a plant I had growing outside (Kosher Haze from SSSC) it was in a 3 gal planter so It has plenty of room to grow. so time will tell I hope she takes by the end of next week then Ill give it a week to 10 days and see where I am
In case anyone is interested to transfer an outdoors p-lant to a indoor p-lant
1. wash and soak your plant soapy water. I used Dawn works on Ducks gotta work on plants
2. Rinse in clean water
3. lightly shake of excess water and transplant
Doe it work? ask me in a week
stay safe Ill post a pic soon
I need to do a few GF/sip To get my confidence back, between my Gnat fungus on my last grow and the nightmare im going thru now. Thats 2 not the best grows in a row. dont make me feel much like a pot farmer
I souldnt complain these have been tough but i gotta remember the good growsThis grow isnt over yet *I did replace my dead Plant with a plant I had growing outside (Kosher Haze from SSSC) it was in a 3 gal planter so It has plenty of room to grow. so time will tell I hope she takes by the end of next week then Ill give it a week to 10 days and see where I am
In case anyone is interested to transfer an outdoors p-lant to a indoor p-lant
1. wash and soak your plant soapy water. I used Dawn works on Ducks gotta work on plants
2. Rinse in clean water
3. lightly shake of excess water and transplant
Doe it work? ask me in a week
stay safe Ill post a pic soon
I agree with the bigger pot size in "super soil"...10gal.Thank you guys for adding this content I havent given up on super soil, but next time I cant skimp. I need to get some bigger pots. a local place had the Big bags 1.5 cf of FFOF come out to just under $13 a bag, I have 8 big bags next the 15 gal pots I still need 2 55 gal drums. Im to old to mix it everyday But I can roll it lol.
I need to do a few GF/sip To get my confidence back, between my Gnat fungus on my last grow and the nightmare im going thru now. Thats 2 not the best grows in a row. dont make me feel much like a pot farmer
This grow isnt over yet *I did replace my dead Plant with a plant I had growing outside (Kosher Haze from SSSC) it was in a 3 gal planter so It has plenty of room to grow. so time will tell I hope she takes by the end of next week then Ill give it a week to 10 days and see where I am
In case anyone is interested to transfer an outdoors p-lant to a indoor p-lant
1. wash and soak your plant soapy water. I used Dawn works on Ducks gotta work on plants
2. Rinse in clean water
3. lightly shake of excess water and transplant
Doe it work? ask me in a week
stay safe Ill post a pic soon
You guys want big plants??????? "again" VEG longer before you flower them..the bigger pot will not help unless you veg the plant longer..
The whole idea is to fill your canopy of the total space of the garden/ tent.., then flip..yes, there's a couple different ways to get there on plant count. Just fill out the canopy and take your time.
If you're doing perpetual then that's another sorry I wouldn't recommend for you my friend.
Just one shot in flower
Fungus knats are from overwatering the plants.. really let that top layer to dry out or they will multiply quickly.
Cheers, brother. You got this
You either need to go with bigger pots or you need to use layers and spikes of raw nutrients with a well cooked soil. I could grow out a 2-3 gallon pot with the soil I have (you can even do it with a lightly amended commercial SS as seen in my previous journal) but I would have to make powerful spikes and thoughtful layers in my containers to do it and would have to be extremely vigilant about teas and balance. Spikes can contain things like blood meal, bone meal, and oyster shells, in 2 inch round holes made through the container from the top to an inch or two from the bottom. Powerful nutrients that are placed in specific places so the plant can access them and mine them on its terms, not being forced on its roots globally in the soil.
The smaller pots (below 10-15) require a lot more effort to maintain. Especially because I haven’t even mentioned carbon yet lol. @Gee64 and I have had incredibly long and complex talks about carbon and it took a long time for such a simple concept I unnecessarily made difficult to sink in (6 months). Nowadays I keep a Rubbermaid bin full of coco outside rinsing in the weather for when I need to feed the microbes their fuel. Boom, simple concept
Or you could make an alright soil and use Geoflora. You’ll get additional benefits from a nice soil on top of GFs feeding regimen, and you can grow in smaller pots with ease. I would still recommend every mix you use, getting a few parts coco and few parts perlite in it regardless of whatever else you add. Those two items will drive increased growth on their own.
I’ve grown in small containers a few times on purpose to really test my ability to read the plants needs and rescue it because small pots are that finicky. They run out of carbon if not prepared correctly and the balance of bacteria to fungi falls out of wack very easily. It’s easy to underestimate just how much the plant and microbes will eat, especially if you’re successful.
Also, mulch your containers. There’s so many benefits to mulching your containers and relatively few drawbacks, almost all of which are related to the physical act of mulching itself lol. Mulch allows you to toss in some extra resources while allowing huge life to catalyze, it improves water retention, allows roots to grow above the soil line, and has a ton of other benefits I can’t remember because I just woke and toked
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- #418
Savvage61
Well-Known Member
yeah I really just stepped out of my comfort zone using SS and a SIP for the first time. I got my worm farm ready to add the soil and such Ill post about it. one thing I will add to my FFOF is my home grown EWC. if I dont save this current grow. Im gonna change my title from Pot farmer to Worm farmerYou either need to go with bigger pots or you need to use layers and spikes of raw nutrients with a well cooked soil. I could grow out a 2-3 gallon pot with the soil I have (you can even do it with a lightly amended commercial SS as seen in my previous journal) but I would have to make powerful spikes and thoughtful layers in my containers to do it and would have to be extremely vigilant about teas and balance. Spikes can contain things like blood meal, bone meal, and oyster shells, in 2 inch round holes made through the container from the top to an inch or two from the bottom. Powerful nutrients that are placed in specific places so the plant can access them and mine them on its terms, not being forced on its roots globally in the soil.
The smaller pots (below 10-15) require a lot more effort to maintain. Especially because I haven’t even mentioned carbon yet lol. @Gee64 and I have had incredibly long and complex talks about carbon and it took a long time for such a simple concept I unnecessarily made difficult to sink in (6 months). Nowadays I keep a Rubbermaid bin full of coco outside rinsing in the weather for when I need to feed the microbes their fuel. Boom, simple concept
Or you could make an alright soil and use Geoflora. You’ll get additional benefits from a nice soil on top of GFs feeding regimen, and you can grow in smaller pots with ease. I would still recommend every mix you use, getting a few parts coco and few parts perlite in it regardless of whatever else you add. Those two items will drive increased growth on their own.
I’ve grown in small containers a few times on purpose to really test my ability to read the plants needs and rescue it because small pots are that finicky. They run out of carbon if not prepared correctly and the balance of bacteria to fungi falls out of wack very easily. It’s easy to underestimate just how much the plant and microbes will eat, especially if you’re successful.
Also, mulch your containers. There’s so many benefits to mulching your containers and relatively few drawbacks, almost all of which are related to the physical act of mulching itself lol. Mulch allows you to toss in some extra resources while allowing huge life to catalyze, it improves water retention, allows roots to grow above the soil line, and has a ton of other benefits I can’t remember because I just woke and toked
take care
Yeah you made one of the big growing/science sins
The best way is to make small incremental changes you can assess easily. You decided to switch mediums and containers, there’s nothing small or incremental about that I haven’t bothered with SIPs yet myself because I already know it’s going to require different things from me that I’m not prepared for and I’m still dialing in my mixes. I have been looking at self watering containers but even with that, those are plastic and I’m used to fabric so that’s a change to account for.
Oh well lol.. as long as you learn some lessons and don’t get discouraged you’ll bounce back. Determination will win.
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Savvage61
Well-Known Member
Thx Bud I needed That! Im been pondering something I have a lot of FFOF as you know it contains everything need to make super soil especially using Geoflora mixed in the soil If I add some Bokashi or compost starter and let it cook for at least 30 day I will also be adding some store bought EWC and what I harvest from my worms (that a question for later) any way I done expect it to act like SS but will it be a better soil? SWEET!!!! MY worms just got delivered I finished their condo move in dayYeah you made one of the big growing/science sins
I haven’t bothered with SIPs yet myself because I already know it’s going to require different things from me that I’m not prepared for and I’m still dialing in my mixes. I have been looking at self watering containers but even with that, those are plastic and I’m used to fabric so that’s a change to account for.
Oh well lol.. as long as you learn some lessons and don’t get discouraged you’ll bounce back. Determination will win.