Get the OC+ from Amazon my friend. Use a visa gift card
check ur inbox 2 im in MA as well 
Osmocote Plus Plant Food: Discuss Its Use With Cannabis Here!
- Thread starter Munki
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Get the OC+ from Amazon my friend. Use a visa gift card
check ur inbox 2 im in MA as well Could you do this same thing, except without cooking it, say in winter months, you could just add the natural bacteria and whatnot in form of liquid concentrates? Also, you say using peat based product, if you used promix bx, it has mycrhorrzia I cant spell it, but the beneficial web of life bacteria stuff. That's where I have been at for a long time, it's all about the web of life. I was using voodoo juice, but will begin using a new product, I will get the name of it, but it's all the same almost as voodoo juice. Without the heavy price.
Anywho. Sweet stuff bro. I dig it! I am going to run with the oc+ until I find an organic equiv. that takes it's place.
Keep posting!
-Go
Yep.
My ideas have come from:
Uncle Ben
Subcool
Mittleider
Uncle Ben a is very straightforward, no nonsense, grow the plant sort of guy. I ran the OC+ by him, he said it looked great....he was right. His soil mix can be found on the net as well. Uncle Ben says, "Keep 'em green."
Subcool's mix is tried and true....he's been using it, with small variations for 20 years. Subcool likes his plants to change color....not so much yellowing leaves from lack of N...more like fall colors! He says the plants grown in his soil finish purple, orange....even black. Among other reasons for using his mix is the idea that you just add water.
Mittleider---who would probably roll over in his grave if he knew his life's work was being applied to pot....basically teaches hydroponic gardening with a soil/soiless medium. You can grow in sand, top soil, a vacant lot.....wherever you want, using his methods. By grow partner's vegetable garden is Mittleider. They just had a truck bring fill dirt....they put it in raised beds and then amended with gypsum, lime, epsom, borax, micronutes, etc. It's the best vegetable garden I've ever seen, and the taste is incredible.
So....I've basically taken each one's contribution and incorporated in what I think is a sensible manner.
Here's my basic philosophy:
1.)easiest way to best yield, simple, cheap: OC+ in perlite hempy.
2.)easiest way to great flavor, good yield: OC+ in FFOF, Roots, etc.
3.)Special, exquisite, reputation making weed: custom organic blends.
When we grow for edibles, we'll use hempy.
What we grow for smoke will be in custom organic soil.
I'll be dialing it in as we go.....sharing my triumphs and tragedies.
The "just add water" soil recipes are a lot of work and hassle up front, and you have to plan and time things because the soil needs to "cook" for several weeks, but the labor up front pays off for a long time down the line when you use the stuff.
I've seen people try to modify and take shortcuts with Subcool's recipe and burn their plants all to hell, so that won't work.
Sounds like you're doing things the right way with your custom mix, so your results should be excellent once it's cooked and ready.
I've been looking for a "just add water" solution for a while now, so I found Subcool's solution a while back, but just never gathered all the ingredients for it or figured out where I would store a large amount, because if I were going to go through the trouble, I'd make enough for a few grows.
I bet these mixes grow some tasty smoke!
The edibles bin will be good for the less than stellar plants as you experiment, which is nice and efficient.
I've seen people try to modify and take shortcuts with Subcool's recipe and burn their plants all to hell, so that won't work.
Sounds like you're doing things the right way with your custom mix, so your results should be excellent once it's cooked and ready.
I've been looking for a "just add water" solution for a while now, so I found Subcool's solution a while back, but just never gathered all the ingredients for it or figured out where I would store a large amount, because if I were going to go through the trouble, I'd make enough for a few grows.
I bet these mixes grow some tasty smoke!
The edibles bin will be good for the less than stellar plants as you experiment, which is nice and efficient.
Subcool says to let it "cook" for about a month, and then to use 1/2 to 2/3 of the lower end of the pot for the "super soil" while the higher area is reserved for regular soil. It makes sense, because the plants start eating the high performance nutes when they're bigger and starting to really grow. Subcool also uses 7 gallon pots. He is a proponent of long veg times and large, 6-8 ounce yields from single plants.
His method works VERY well, obviously. However, the main reason he's growing large plants is because he is only allowed to grow a small number of plants and remain legal.
So, i'll mix up the Supersoil, with a few tweaks....namely I'll dilute it with regular potting mix, and add a bit of gypsum. The upper half of the bucket will feature OC+ (may try dynamite too, as well as regular OC, due to the fact that I have that nice micronute mix now.)
Of course, this new organic OC product may make all this hard work a moot point.
We've got a cement mixer to mix the soil, not that hard to do with the right tools. Pop it in trash cans, water, and let it sit out back.
The Lurker
New Member
Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis: I like it, Doc! The Hegelian Dialectic at work in the garden. A good way to improve any process.
Sounds like he's hit on a combination of nutes that, along with his genetics, may promote more Anthocyanin production (and/or change the color of that already present in plant tissues) in the plants he's using:
Effect of pH and magnesium on colour development and anthocyanin accumulation
It's well known that the introduction of different metals can change the color in flowering plants (incl. fruits). Interesting to note that at least in the study above, they found Anthocyanin and Chlorophyll production to be roughly inversely proportional when using different fertilizers (page 5), which makes sense (one takes energy away from the other, in terms of their production). I'm sure you can promote some higher Anthocyanin levels / different metallic complexes for additional color without taking away from the Chlorophyll production o'ermuch, too, with the right mix. Maybe Subcool's got it down, at this point.
Soil science can be just as complicated, if not moreso, than pure hydro. I actually think hydro's easier to understand (and correct if there are issues)...
Cheers,
-TL
Yep! I think you've got it!
Hydro, to me, is like a synthetic drug, while organic soil is like a natural drug.
Synthroid vs. Armour thyroid. The former is laboratory made T4, while the latter is dessicated porcine thyroid gland....T3, T4 and all the trimmings. Doc's in the know prefer Armour, due to the subtle differences (not so subtle in some cases.)
From what I can gather, keeping 'em green will result in a large yield. Subcool himself says that his yield isn't "great" but that he grows for flavor. Obviously, either of these two legends have more experience than I do by a factor of 100 or so.....so I've concluded that they're both right!
I'm going to try to meet in the middle.....green healthy plants with enough of a soil culture to bring out the flavors.
One thing I can say for sure....growing with more N than is commonly accepted does NOT result in bad tasting buds....not at all. Overfeeding is what causes that.
Hopefully, I'll avoid that with my method.
Grower Z
New Member
Any of you folks have experience with calcined clay as the medium?
This stuff supposedly can be used in such a way that a perched water table is deliberately created. It probably is the relatively high air porosity. I've seen people use it Hempy buckets at 100% and 90/10 with coir. So far, I've only used in passive wick containers for house plants.
check these studies on corn production from the U. of Iowa.
Purdue e-Pubs
....One graduate student grew a few corn plants in a tray that held 3 cm of water. He simply kept this tray full and grew healthy plants - no tricky decision making or watering technique.
that's from Optimizing Greenhouse Corn Production: What Is the Best Irrigation Strategy?, Westin Rink, Derek Gambrel, Robert Eddy, and Daniel T. Hahn
Turface MVP + OC Plus + Plain water
I think it's been mentioned already, but there was another study mentioned in GPNmag in which twice weekly fertilizations with N in addition to the CRF in the medium was the best combination for growth and yield.
I have a 400w HPS in a closet to use for experiments such as this. I'm going to use 1 gallon, mesh bottom pots. twice weekly feedings with Alaska Fish 5-1-1, the rest with plain water. Turface MVP as the only medium with no amendments accept for 27 grams of OC+.
I'm curious how this compares to the Hempy bucket with OC+. Simplicity is about equal, wouldn't you say?
This stuff supposedly can be used in such a way that a perched water table is deliberately created. It probably is the relatively high air porosity. I've seen people use it Hempy buckets at 100% and 90/10 with coir. So far, I've only used in passive wick containers for house plants.
check these studies on corn production from the U. of Iowa.
Purdue e-Pubs
....One graduate student grew a few corn plants in a tray that held 3 cm of water. He simply kept this tray full and grew healthy plants - no tricky decision making or watering technique.
that's from Optimizing Greenhouse Corn Production: What Is the Best Irrigation Strategy?, Westin Rink, Derek Gambrel, Robert Eddy, and Daniel T. Hahn
Turface MVP + OC Plus + Plain water
I think it's been mentioned already, but there was another study mentioned in GPNmag in which twice weekly fertilizations with N in addition to the CRF in the medium was the best combination for growth and yield.
I have a 400w HPS in a closet to use for experiments such as this. I'm going to use 1 gallon, mesh bottom pots. twice weekly feedings with Alaska Fish 5-1-1, the rest with plain water. Turface MVP as the only medium with no amendments accept for 27 grams of OC+.
I'm curious how this compares to the Hempy bucket with OC+. Simplicity is about equal, wouldn't you say?
Grower Z
New Member
I realized that maybe the article hasn't been mentioned.
Combination Fertilizer Programs
Combination fertilizer programs for flowering pot plants can be the best bet for consumer success.
By Fred Hulme
Contributing Author
May 2007
What's missing from this study are plants fertilized with WSF much more often, more similar to the way we've all been doing it.
Combination Fertilizer Programs
Combination fertilizer programs for flowering pot plants can be the best bet for consumer success.
By Fred Hulme
Contributing Author
May 2007
Plants with no fertilizer (either CRF or water soluble) performed very poorly (Table 1). The limited growth produced by these plants was likely achieved by using the starter nutrient charge in the growing mix. In general, as fertilizer concentration increased, plant growth (indicated as dry weight) also increased. The maximum dry weight measured was for plants grown at the highest concentration of CRF and 300 ppm N twice a week: 253.8 g, 220.8 g and 253.6 g for petunia ‘Easy Wave Pink,’ petunia ‘Wave Blue’ and verbena ‘Wildfire Rose,’ respectively.
[..]
As expected, plants with no fertilizer (either CRF or WSF) performed very poorly (Figures 1 and 2). In general, as fertilizer concentration increased, plant growth (indicated as dry weight) also increased. Although some dry weights for the 3.8 oz. per pot treatments were smaller than the ones for the 2.9 oz. per pot treatments, these differences were not statistically significant. Plants that received WSF at 600 ppm N once month with no CRF were lighter (smaller) than any of the plants that received CRF (Figure 2). Even the lowest CRF rate (2.9 oz. per pot) produced more biomass than the plants in the treatment imitating how an average homeowner might fertilize (600 ppm N once per month). Measurements for heights and diameters followed the same general trend as dry weights.
Recommendations
The Scotts Company recommends growers choose a WSF program based on a complete water test. The CRF component should provide a steady and extended release of N-P-K, Mg and minor elements. Match Osmocote Plus longevity with your growing temperatures and desired delivery time. In most cases, a CRF with eight to nine months longevity will perform through production to provide post-production feeding of flowering crops for the retailer and consumer. Please refer to the label for specifics.
Recommend rates:
■ Use the low CRF rate (around 3 to 4 lb/cubic yard) for salt-sensitive, tender species such as fuchsia, begonia, fern and impatiens; for bedding plants; high water-retentive media; minimal leaching.
■ Use the medium CRF rate (around 5 to 6 lb/cubic yard) for more vigorous species and heavy feeders such as trailing petunia; low water-retentive media (containing coarse bark); frequent leaching.
■ WSF concentrations need to be lowered when using in combination with CRF. Reduce your constant feed to 50 to 75 ppm N for bedding plants, 100-150 ppm N for flowering pot crops and baskets.
[..]
As expected, plants with no fertilizer (either CRF or WSF) performed very poorly (Figures 1 and 2). In general, as fertilizer concentration increased, plant growth (indicated as dry weight) also increased. Although some dry weights for the 3.8 oz. per pot treatments were smaller than the ones for the 2.9 oz. per pot treatments, these differences were not statistically significant. Plants that received WSF at 600 ppm N once month with no CRF were lighter (smaller) than any of the plants that received CRF (Figure 2). Even the lowest CRF rate (2.9 oz. per pot) produced more biomass than the plants in the treatment imitating how an average homeowner might fertilize (600 ppm N once per month). Measurements for heights and diameters followed the same general trend as dry weights.
Recommendations
The Scotts Company recommends growers choose a WSF program based on a complete water test. The CRF component should provide a steady and extended release of N-P-K, Mg and minor elements. Match Osmocote Plus longevity with your growing temperatures and desired delivery time. In most cases, a CRF with eight to nine months longevity will perform through production to provide post-production feeding of flowering crops for the retailer and consumer. Please refer to the label for specifics.
Recommend rates:
■ Use the low CRF rate (around 3 to 4 lb/cubic yard) for salt-sensitive, tender species such as fuchsia, begonia, fern and impatiens; for bedding plants; high water-retentive media; minimal leaching.
■ Use the medium CRF rate (around 5 to 6 lb/cubic yard) for more vigorous species and heavy feeders such as trailing petunia; low water-retentive media (containing coarse bark); frequent leaching.
■ WSF concentrations need to be lowered when using in combination with CRF. Reduce your constant feed to 50 to 75 ppm N for bedding plants, 100-150 ppm N for flowering pot crops and baskets.
What's missing from this study are plants fertilized with WSF much more often, more similar to the way we've all been doing it.
Grower Z
New Member
I've got a few diff. groups of plants going....
60/40 coir/perlite Hempy buckets that were amended with OC+ today - 18 days into 12/12 and will be watered with the Peters hydro + calcium nitrate + epsom salts.
Another group in veg that were transplanted a week ago. 60/40 Hempy buckets with Gypsum and OC+ that are getting plain water only until bloom. I might occasionally hit these with Alaska 5-1-1.
Another group of seedlings that are going straight into 12/12 (Thanks DocBud for that idea too). This will the Turface MVP grow as mentioned elsewhere. Turface MVP in 1 gallon mesh bottom nursery pots with OC+ that are subirrigated with a deliberate perched water table.
And also partially inspired by Docbud, another group of seedlings that will be grown in 2 gallon growbags in a soilless mix. 1 part Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix + 2 parts coir + 25% coarse perlite + blood + bone + kelp meal + d. lime + gypsum + OC+ - plain water only. The point of that will be to compare yields and quality against the Hempy buckets. I can't take too many pics but will post what I can along with data. Perhaps my own thread is in order when the seedlings get transplanted.
60/40 coir/perlite Hempy buckets that were amended with OC+ today - 18 days into 12/12 and will be watered with the Peters hydro + calcium nitrate + epsom salts.
Another group in veg that were transplanted a week ago. 60/40 Hempy buckets with Gypsum and OC+ that are getting plain water only until bloom. I might occasionally hit these with Alaska 5-1-1.
Another group of seedlings that are going straight into 12/12 (Thanks DocBud for that idea too). This will the Turface MVP grow as mentioned elsewhere. Turface MVP in 1 gallon mesh bottom nursery pots with OC+ that are subirrigated with a deliberate perched water table.
And also partially inspired by Docbud, another group of seedlings that will be grown in 2 gallon growbags in a soilless mix. 1 part Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix + 2 parts coir + 25% coarse perlite + blood + bone + kelp meal + d. lime + gypsum + OC+ - plain water only. The point of that will be to compare yields and quality against the Hempy buckets. I can't take too many pics but will post what I can along with data. Perhaps my own thread is in order when the seedlings get transplanted.
Grower Z
New Member
Developments in Plant and Soil Sciences, 2002, Volume 92, Symposium 10, 776-777, DOI: 10.1007/0-306-47624-X_377
Release of nitrogen from two controlled release fertilizers
L. Andersen
Release of nitrogen from two controlled release fertilizers
L. Andersen
Grower Z
That last post confused the heck out of me, (as most of the technical ones do). lol
What happened to put a hole in the bucket and grow? I see weeds growing through the cracks in the sidewalk that end up 4 or 5 feet tall. Are we getting way to technical trying to eek out 110% from our plants?
Anyway, I was reading in Doc's un-lucky earlier about temps.
So
Is it the temperature of the room or the temp of the soil that matters?
My friends grow room is on the hot side. Its usually around 85 in there. Getting ready to start our next grow. Is it still ok to use OC+ or Dynamite? Or should we use more conventional ferts?
We have had an unusually hot summer here most days were in the 80's and several days in the 90's and I used OC+ in my veggie garden. My tomatoes are awesome, biggest on the block. Some are starting to die now because I planted so early this year and their is also some sort of blight going around,but a few are taller than me and still growing.
That last post confused the heck out of me, (as most of the technical ones do). lol
What happened to put a hole in the bucket and grow? I see weeds growing through the cracks in the sidewalk that end up 4 or 5 feet tall. Are we getting way to technical trying to eek out 110% from our plants?
Anyway, I was reading in Doc's un-lucky earlier about temps.
So
Is it the temperature of the room or the temp of the soil that matters?
My friends grow room is on the hot side. Its usually around 85 in there. Getting ready to start our next grow. Is it still ok to use OC+ or Dynamite? Or should we use more conventional ferts?
We have had an unusually hot summer here most days were in the 80's and several days in the 90's and I used OC+ in my veggie garden. My tomatoes are awesome, biggest on the block. Some are starting to die now because I planted so early this year and their is also some sort of blight going around,but a few are taller than me and still growing.
Hole in the bucket is for the hempy thread...this is for OC+.
Regarding the temps....it's the temp of the room and the soil that matters. As long as the soil is moist, it's not going to assume room temp, but will always be a few degrees cooler, especially if things cool down at night!
In warmer temps, OC+ will work just fine, but you should keep the initial dose on the moderate side and be prepared to add more....the nutes are going to dump a bit faster.
Grower Z
New Member
^^^^^
What Docbud said.
The main point to take away from my last post is that the ammoniacal nitrogen content is what gets released first from the prill.
That form of N can, but doesn't have to play a large role on substrate pH.
What Docbud said.
The main point to take away from my last post is that the ammoniacal nitrogen content is what gets released first from the prill.
That form of N can, but doesn't have to play a large role on substrate pH.
Guys!! I am getting some red/rustish looking colors on some of my older-lower down the plant leaves! What is going on??
I will get some pics as asoon as I can, but it's going to be a couple of days!
Any idea's what I can do?
Medium- Promix BX- Peat and perlite basically and some good junk too-
Fertz- OC+ top-coated to soil about 2 weeks ago or so.
Filtered water. from PUR filter dispenser.
Plants are vegging under 600W spectra LED unit
Thanks dudes!!
I will hit the problem solving charts as well.
-Go
I will get some pics as asoon as I can, but it's going to be a couple of days!
Any idea's what I can do?
Medium- Promix BX- Peat and perlite basically and some good junk too-
Fertz- OC+ top-coated to soil about 2 weeks ago or so.
Filtered water. from PUR filter dispenser.
Plants are vegging under 600W spectra LED unit
Thanks dudes!!
I will hit the problem solving charts as well.
-Go
Hard to say without pics...but i'd merely add more. If there's a deficiency, it could be due to the fact that the promix drains well, and all the prills are on top. No big deal, just add more.
Hey you guys should check out my thread. i am very impressed. let me know ur thoughts? OC+ is going in tomorrow on 1/2 the plants and the DM is going on the other 1/2. screw the GH MAXI!!
All right guys i just bought a bottle of the OC+ for $12.00 today. let me share how.. today and Sunday OSH is having a 15% off sale on their ferts and they also have a 20% off coupon in their add off of 1 thing. so at the end i paid $12.00 for the 4.5lb thing of OC+.. you can get the add in the mail or at the store
now if you want to try the DM ferts i got mine at Home Depot for around $3.00 instead of $10.00. heres to ways to save allot of money but you have to act fast.
now if you want to try the DM ferts i got mine at Home Depot for around $3.00 instead of $10.00. heres to ways to save allot of money but you have to act fast.