Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

Bluenoser said:
Thanks Sue :)
Day 3, all is good.
The diarrhea is tapering off, and the feeling of dread is gone. I just have a weakened hang over feeling now, but the worst is over.
I'll be OK now :)
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Oh gosh Bluenoser.... that made my morning. * snif * :hugs:
 
I'm not sure the wine is doing anything for me, I think I felt worse after drinking it.
I'm still having odd waves of nausea now and again, and oddly, tastes and smells are really bothering me now, everything smells more intensely than before.

The problem now is pain. It's extreme.

I'm trying to figure out what to take to curb the pain now that there is no pain killers in my body, last night I totally took too much oil, got overly stoned and anxious feeling, thank God for the CBD isolate powder, took some of that and the anxiety left pretty quickly. So, I know I'm at the top of my useful dose as far as THC goes.
:)
 
Bluenoser said:
Yikes, we have a powerful nor'easter pounding down on us, power is out all around us!
Not sure why I'm the only one left with power, lol.
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Somehow the universe seems to provide for those in need! Stay strong. I finally fell asleep at a normal hour last night. But I could attribute that to the 2 hours of sleep the night before.... seems I need double strength meds. 2 night caps had me sleeping like a baby! ( and half a melatonin, hoping to be off that by next wed.)
 
TheMadDabber said:
Somehow the universe seems to provide for those in need! Stay strong. I finally fell asleep at a normal hour last night. But I could attribute that to the 2 hours of sleep the night before.... seems I need double strength meds. 2 night caps had me sleeping like a baby! ( and half a melatonin, hoping to be off that by next wed.)
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Organic hemp seed oil works to put you to sleep as well, for a while at least. Eventually your body gets used to it, but it knocked me out for the first week or so. It's also really good for you. Keep it in the fridge even before you open it (it's better cold) and it tastes a bit like alfalfa sprouts!

Congrats MadDab and Bluenose on working through this!
 
I'm starting to feel like my old self again, the problem is that my old self sux, lol
That's the reason I started taking those poison pills again.

I watched a group of young men, obviously from a rehab out for a group walk today, I couldn't help but think how lucky I am to be free of this and not having to be checked in somewhere to detox.

There goes the power flickering again, I might just drop off the map yet, lol.
 
If you refer to the pain being intolerable, then it might be time to get that under control. :hugs:

Guys, those of you with experience using cannabis for pain - and keeping in mind that the best clinical results are done 1:1 - what would you suggest for a starting dose for pain management of this scale?

The trials for Sativex show clearly that a low-dose 1:1is the best approach. I'm cognizant of the fact that those trials were done to get that product out there with a metered dose doctors can feel good about, but their findings seem to be holding up. I'm more interested in the real world, but they may be onto something. When we hurt we reach for THC, and it's real easy to keep going once the pain slips away. Euphoria feels so good your body was evolved to create it in house. Lol!

If indeed pain management is a special dosing case, it might be a good idea if we listen to the message.

My sticking point is I have no serious pain to manage, so I can't relate to what you live with. I don't, in all honesty, know what dose range works for chronic pain.

And so I turn to you all for guidance. :battingeyelashes:
 
TheMadDabber said:
Somehow the universe seems to provide for those in need! Stay strong. I finally fell asleep at a normal hour last night. But I could attribute that to the 2 hours of sleep the night before.... seems I need double strength meds. 2 night caps had me sleeping like a baby! ( and half a melatonin, hoping to be off that by next wed.)
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Wonderful news. :hugs::hugs::hugs:

This is gonna turn out to be one of my favorite rooms. Lol!
 
SweetSue said:
Cannabis

Cannabis

  • Media owner SweetSue
  • Date added
The gateway drug OFF of opioids


Tapering Off Opioids for Pain Relief with Dr. Gregory Smith a Green Flower Media class

Decreasing or quitting opioid medications using medical cannabis.

We're all aware by now, aren't we, that our medical profession has created a nightmare of addiction by overprescribing opioid medications? I recently took a class at Green Flower Media on using cannabis to taper down the opioid dose with the hope of getting completely away from these medications that were only meant for short-term use of around two weeks.

Some Perspective

The US has 5% of the world's population but uses 80% of the opioid medications prescribed. There's been a four-fold increase in prescription opioid deaths since the year 2000, causing over 40 deaths a day, most as a result of a patient taking too much of the opioid medication. Research shows that opioids are ineffective for the long-term treatment of chronic pain. The epidemic is caused by prescription-writing practices of physicians stimulated by the marketing practices of pharmaceutical companies.

All of the studies done on opioids were done for two weeks, the length of time the medications are most effective. All of the research on cannabis was done using cannabis with around 25% THC and negligible CBD. The doses were 20-30 mg of THC, multiple times a day

Any negative effects presented by research were done with questionable science. The data of the effectiveness of cannabis as a healing herb overwhelmingly overshadows any parinoid percieved problems that've never really materialized.

There's no correlation between the studies done by our government and how cannabis is used in the real patient world.

The medical community created this opioid dilemma. This is a step towards repairing the damage.

It wasn't until a decade ago that the prescribing practices of physicians began changing. Previously opioids were for end-of-life conditions or for post-surgery. It wasn't until the last couple years, when they were doing studies to show that the opioids could be effective long-term that they discovered the tendency to increase pain perception, the opposite of what they were marketed to do. Long-term opioid use causes increased pain

Pain signalling can be modulated by simply using the power of your mind. After a few weeks the tissues are healing, so the cells are quieting. Pain isn't sharp and knife-like, but dull and achy. This is when opioids can begin to ramp up the pain signal.

Research has shown the severe problems inherent in current opioid use practices. Long-term use actually increases the patient's perception of pain, leading to higher and higher doses of opioids. Patients are regularly being terminated by their pain doctors for testing positive for "illicit substances," usually cannabis.

These opioid-addicted patients end up seeking street opioids to feed their cravings. The cheapest street solution, unfortunately, is heroin. Overdoses of herion add another 26 deaths a day to the climbing numbers of opioid failure.

Opioid tolerance and enhanced pain perception

Opioids are useful following surgery or trauma, and in the beginning, that was how they were used, for short-term pain relief. When used long-term you bring new concerns into the healing space. After a few months patients develop an addiction to the opioids. Their perception of pain is enhanced, so that minor pain is perceived as major pain. The patient's mind calls for more opioids. The harsh reality is that long-term opioid use leads to marked magnification of the pain response.

This is not what you envisioned when your doctor said "Take these every day and come back to see me in three months" was it?

Tolerance comes into play because over time the opioid receptors become desensitized. Now you need more opioids and more frequent dosing times to achieve the same level of relief. After a few months the patient can become so addicted to the opioid medication that discontinuing, or even delaying the taking of a dose, can result in the onset of severe withdrawal symptoms - sickness, pain, undeniable cravings for opioids

Early symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Anxiety/Agitation
* Muscle aches (profusely, throughout the body)
* Increased tearing for no reason
* Insomnia
* A clear, runny nose
* Sweating for unknown reasons
* Craving opioids

Later symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Intense abdominal pain
* Diarrhea
* Dialated Pupils
* Nausea and vomiting

These sick patients crave the opioids to make the sickness go away, making it difficult for an individual to make the break from opioids on their own. If a patient stops and then restarts an opioid regimen they typically require a higher dose to begin again.

A patient who stops opioids successfully and then later starts again on that same dose can end up dead. During the time away from opioids the tolerance levels are reset. You won't need as much, so if you take that much it could be fatal.

The side effects no one likes to talk about
- Severe, intractable constipation, associated with abdominal bloating, nausea, and colic.
- Decreased testosterone in males to the point where it's common for a long-term patient to need hormonal replacement therapy.
- Depression, a common occurance with long-term use.

These side effects call for the use of other prescription medications that can further complicate the treatment of chronic pain.
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8 year opiate/benzo addict.... clean 18 months now because of cannabis!
Herb replaced 8 medications for me personally.
 
SweetSue said:
If you refer to the pain being intolerable, then it might be time to get that under control. :hugs:

Guys, those of you with experience using cannabis for pain - and keeping in mind that the best clinical results are done 1:1 - what would you suggest for a starting dose for pain management of this scale?

The trials for Sativex show clearly that a low-dose 1:1is the best approach. I'm cognizant of the fact that those trials were done to get that product out there with a metered dose doctors can feel good about, but their findings seem to be holding up. I'm more interested in the real world, but they may be onto something. When we hurt we reach for THC, and it's real easy to keep going once the pain slips away. Euphoria feels so good your body was evolved to create it in house. Lol!

If indeed pain management is a special dosing case, it might be a good idea if we listen to the message.

My sticking point is I have no serious pain to manage, so I can't relate to what you live with. I don't, in all honesty, know what dose range works for chronic pain.

And so I turn to you all for guidance. :battingeyelashes:
Click to expand...
I have settled in to a nice routine of CBD oil and High THC flower to manage. It is definitely about balance. Certain times of day & differing levels of pain require different treatment. Since I don't have access to dispensaries, I make due with what I have.
 
Preston9mm said:
I have settled in to a nice routine of CBD oil and High THC flower to manage. It is definitely about balance. Certain times of day & differing levels of pain require different treatment. Since I don't have access to dispensaries, I make due with what I have.
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Welcome Preston. :hugs:

Would you be so kind as to tell me a bit more specifically how you dose yourself on a typical day and then how you do that on a bad day? I tend to think that a lot of the data we get from clinics may be shaded by what patients don't tell the doctor. I'm trying to get a good grasp on reality.
 
SweetSue said:
Welcome Preston. :hugs:

Would you be so kind as to tell me a bit more specifically how you dose yourself on a typical day and then how you do that on a bad day? I tend to think that a lot of the data we get from clinics may be shaded by what patients don't tell the doctor. I'm trying to get a good grasp on reality.
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Alright... So, I'm treating chronic pain from 5 spinal fusions, insomnia/RLS, ptsd/anxiety, and depression.... Whew!
Each of these affects me differently on different days so I generally incorporate my CBD oil as "the equalizer".
Wake up sore, wake-n- bake to start my day. If I'm working that day, I can clear away some of that "heady" feeling with CBD, or sometimes I use it to decrease anxiety brought on by a strong strain.
Living in a prohibited state, it is hit or miss on what variety buds I get. I'm growing my own now, so I am managing this better. But, I'm still a novice grower and am not 100% self sustained.
So... That being said, I think the addict in me directly associate's the "high" sensation with pain relief but reality is, using CBD oil in conjunction with that THC is the golden ticket.
None of my symptoms are 100% relieved, but overall, they are ALL managed better than they were on opiates.
 
Your story is very encouraging Preston, thanks for sharing with us.
And than you Sue for your continued support and suggestions, and for pulling in others to help out who have specific knowledge.

I have been a grower since 2011, growing many different strains (until Canada yanked our grow licenses in 2014) and using CCO since then, and tried every kind of CBD product I could find. I doubt much of it even had any CBD in it, when you buy from a dispensary, you "trust" them, and most have no clue what they are selling because they "trust" whomever sold it to them.

As you know, I'm still waiting for my grow license renewal, hopefully by next month.

Until I recently tried the CBD isolate powder I could not ever notice that CBD diminished the euphoria and anxiety caused by THC, this is the only thing I've ever found that allows me to use CCO without discomfort. I've tried for 10 years to increase THC to build up a tolerance, but it never happens.

Even high CBD strains of cannabis still got me pretty stoned and anxious, no matter what strain I tried.

This is why I came here to initially see if anyone had any strain suggestions that I may not have heard of.

I guess at this point, I have to start all over again and figure out strain, dose and ratio of CDB to THC.

Right now I can barely move, my lower back and neck are too painful.
 
Bluenoser said:
Your story is very encouraging Preston, thanks for sharing with us.
And than you Sue for your continued support and suggestions, and for pulling in others to help out who have specific knowledge.

I have been a grower since 2011, growing many different strains (until Canada yanked our grow licenses in 2014) and using CCO since then, and tried every kind of CBD product I could find. I doubt much of it even had any CBD in it, when you buy from a dispensary, you "trust" them, and most have no clue what they are selling because they "trust" whomever sold it to them.

As you know, I'm still waiting for my grow license renewal, hopefully by next month.

Until I recently tried the CBD isolate powder I could not ever notice that CBD diminished the euphoria and anxiety caused by THC, this is the only thing I've ever found that allows me to use CCO without discomfort. I've tried for 10 years to increase THC to build up a tolerance, but it never happens.

Even high CBD strains of cannabis still got me pretty stoned and anxious, no matter what strain I tried.

This is why I came here to initially see if anyone had any strain suggestions that I may not have heard of.

I guess at this point, I have to start all over again and figure out strain, dose and ratio of CDB to THC.

Right now I can barely move, my lower back and neck are too painful.
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A good topical would do wonders for that neck and back pain. Do you have access to any? You’ll want a high THC value.

Starting over, when you know there’s a strong light at the end of your tunnel of pain, is a very good thing in my mind.

Preston, thank you for the specifics. I take it you’re dosing primarily with inhalation? Are you open to trying a capsule regimen using infused oils? We’ve seen great success with this approach for many conditions, chronic pain among them. Also, are you in possession of a high THC topical?

At the top of the back there’s that pad of skin covering a proliferation of unmyelated axions, dangling from the brain. It’s right at the point that the cervical and thoracic spine meet.

Topicals applies to this area will greatly enhance the pain management regimen. It feeds cannabinoids to the brain without introducing more than a sense of well-being.

Topicals are highly underrated for pain relief, but we’re slowly changing that perception.
 
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