Derbybud
Well-Known Member
I'm not a crop king fan anymore but I do love their CBDream. 1-1 indica dominate. Just melts my pain away with a slight head buzz. Will give you the munches.
Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
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- Tags
- opioid-related tapering
My doctor told me when I went for my medical MJ card that it is Best to get a 1:1 ratio or a 1:2 ratio of THC/CBD and that it works best when it in the same bud. He said it can work if you add a CBD strain with a THC strain but it is Best to get it from the same Plant, Strain BudWhat have you found to work best ? Also can members recommend a good 1:1 or 1:2 ratio strain ? I plan to grow my own medicine and want to buy some seeds with these ratios in mind. I suffer from Chronic Pain, Depression, and fatigue along with other aliments. Looking forward to some suggestions Thank You
What has been and is happening in medicine is terrible.
I'm going to disagree about both coming from the same plant. I don't think it matters and taking from two different plants may increase the cannabinoid profile and therefore create a better entourage effect.
I will defer to SweetSue, but you may want to lay down a baseline 1:1 oral intake, starting low and going slow to reach the desired effect and then supplement with smoke and other means of administration. This is similar to using methadone for extended relief with another shorter acting between doses when needed. The oral takes longer to kick in but lasts much longer (6-8 hours vs 2-4).
Wedding Cake/Pink Cookies (available from Canuk seeds from sponsor TrueNorth) is a good strain for pain, depression, anxiety, sleep. Orange Sherbet is another strain good for depression and anxiety (and pain?). Both are high THC strains. White Widow or White Russian may work. Harlequin and similar strains offer a more balanced ratio of CBD:THC. We have one member who is fond of Hidrow, a 2:1 CBD:THC strain.
This new venture will take some research on your part and very likely some experimentation, too. Good luck on your journey. We will try to help you along the way.
PCaddict
Member
Thank You, I am glad I have gotten some really good suggestions from the members. I have tried a few different strains but most were high THC because it comes from my buddy who gets some from states where it is MUCH cheaper then it is in Ohio at dispensaries it is $59.99 for a tenth of an ounce. I do buy CBD strains at the dispensaries to add in with the other, I just cant afford it too often. 2:1 CBD:THC is what my Dr. recommended I will check out the Hidrow , I bought some Harlequin a few months ago but a tenth of an ounce doesn't go very far.... I have also tried ACDC and Electric bubblegum but I can only afford a tenth each month so it doesn't go far which is why I will be growing my own medicine. I have been looking at super soil or Living Soil. I want to build my own living soil start some 1:1 or 2:1 strains I am new to growing so I know I have a lot to learn. The members have been Really helpful and I appreciate all the input and suggestions. I plan to look at all the strain recommendations you made as well as others suggestions. I would rather use edibles then smoking but I do also smoke it in the evenings. I don't like smoking that much I have COPD as well as all the other stuff so edibles is what I prefer. I bought the Magic Butter Machine and you have to use an ounce at a time to make stuff in it so I cant make a lot until I can Grow, Dry and Cure my own which takes a little time. Once again Thank You for the input
PCaddict
Member
Thank You I have looked it up and will order some seeds to try it.
Derbybud
Well-Known Member
A 2-1 cbd-thc again from the king is there CBDutch Treat. These 2 strains are very easy to grow. I use this one for my oils I take 3x a day.
PCaddict
Member
I looked up Aliens on Moonshine and it looks good. Its not sold by the places I have been looking at to order seeds from. I found it on Choice seedbank. I got ripped off from one seed supplier so I am leery of where to order from. I would Love to get some seeds and try my hand at growing some.
PCaddict
Member
I also went through YEARs of opioid use, I had a bad break up with my x wife. I was on HEAVY meds from my Psychiatrist. I am Bi-Polar so it through me into a depression so bad I slept 20 hours a day for two years. My brother introduced me to a girl, He didn't know she was a crack head. one time she came over and put something in a glass tube and smoked it then she wanted me to try it I did and it was off to the races. For the first time in years I wasn't depressed, I felt like I had won the lottery when I hit it. after years of that the dealers started giving out caps of Boy so I tried it and another 8 years went by. I ODed 3 times then went septic I was in ICU for 21 days I had renal failure, Liver failure, etc. They told me it was a miracle I survived. The doctor agreed to put me on Methadone, High dose then in April this year they cut me off all at once. It has bee Really Bad. I had also been on Vics and perces for years. Now that I am off Opioids I will not go back to them unless it is short term for surgery etc. I hope you stay the course and use mother earths best medicine Cannabis. That's what I plan to keep doing. Good Luck and I enjoyed reading your post
I only on my first grow but I use super soil myself. Not once have I added anything to my water to change the pH or add nutes so far. Have to be careful to not overwater but other than that it's relatively low maintenance. It is a chore to get started (has to compost 6-8 weeks) but that work pays off later.
Great job getting off the harmful stuff and finding this medicine.
Great job getting off the harmful stuff and finding this medicine.
PCaddict
Member
I am doing my first grow too I have pictures posted in the growing section. I plan to start building a living soil in a couple weeks so it will be ready by winter to start some plants the end of or mid March put them in my greenhouse. Thanks for the positive replay
PCaddict
Member
My pictures are under the( I need a good super soil recipe)in the growing section. Do you have any pictures of your grow ? I would Love to see them. We got a late start so my plants are still kind of small. I hope I can finish them before winter hits and I hope I don't have to move them in doors My wife can not stand the smell. She can tell if I take the bag of ground bud and load my bowl hours before she comes home...……
My pictures are under the( I need a good super soil recipe)in the growing section. Do you have any pictures of your grow ? I would Love to see them. We got a late start so my plants are still kind of small. I hope I can finish them before winter hits and I hope I don't have to move them in doors My wife can not stand the smell. She can tell if I take the bag of ground bud and load my bowl hours before she comes home...……
You have some good looking plants.
Here's a link to my latest photo dump in my grow journal: Alafornia's 1st Time Multistrain Medical Grow
PCaddict
Member
Nice your plants look better then mine... I plan to do a lot more next year, Well starting with building a good soil this year then start some inside to take to my greenhouse early spring
The soil is key.
Wow - It's been almost a year to the day I joined 420mag, I forget what my doses were when I attempted tapering w Cannabis. However I cannot say tapering off seems realistic at this time. I do recall I was down to as little as 60 mg Oxycontin daily.
Due to the intense depression of having total knee replacements which seem more painful than my arthritis was it is uncertain as to how I will proceed. Aside from double TKR surgery I was primary care giver to a relative dying with cancer.
My partner and I totally were in denial of the impact of caring for a terminally ill person...it was probably a good 18 months before we began to realize the impact it has taken.
Anyway so as I said I got to 60 mg daily give or take. The most difficult part for me aside from the pain is the gloom and doom. I am self employed so w/o motivation strength and chemical changes after 20+ years of opiods up to 180 mg daily just before my surgery.
FF to today, I completed my second grow which was much more manageable at least concerning electric bills. I did winter grow my yields were less, but I think w / our current consumption will get me through until Fall comes!
I am not sure cannabis helps much with my pain but 1000% can improve my mood, I really prefer tincture GD and edibles. Did my first cobbing & totally love this curing method. The problem I had was I tended to experiment of course right after harvesting, this leads to much quality testing hence I typically am a bit too high. So my cobs one totally overdone came out looking like ABV. But makes great tincture or I just weigh out a bit use it like tobacco chew for a bit then swallow.
Eating Cobs vs ABV tends to have a steep learning curve as such made for some intense adventures! Also went on family vacation & to keep spirits up used tincture from that cob. That ended with a near psychedelic experience. It was funny as hell because our AIRBNB was a bit rustic in the Berkshires. Here I was so so high and the host had mostly portable AC units. After moving one to my kids room, all adults by now BTW, I looked at the outlet with only 2 prong plug ( the light switch was the kind w 2 buttons) I said this is sketchy probably blow a fuse.
I walked from bedroom to the dining rm he came out w panic in his eyes uhh you were right and electric blew for 1/3 of the house. So I said do you see a basement or breaker box anywhere? These are millennial's BTW he looked at me what's a breaker box?! So I had to go on a quest which led to a dark wet dirt floor basement and me with my phone light! Of course he would not enter the "scary" place! Bear in mind all knew I over did the drops as I was trying to keep pain manageable enough to meet them at a restaurant.
So let me change what I said earlier cannabis does help reduce pain for me, but it's a slippery slope. I have not done the do enough - just enough to feel the affects. Sometimes that makes me just more aware or amplifies the perceived pain.
Anyway - I just cannot deal with the pain mgt doc anymore each time I had someone that would really work with me seems they left the practice. That practice is not accepting anymore pill pain patients. Thanks again DEA! As such while I was dropping my doses & the PA believes 20 mg morphine = 20 mg oxy I had months of agony, telling myself I think I can do it. So I began experimenting with Kratom today I am using kratom, cannabis (mostly eves), still valium which helps muscle spasms or if I get a bit to anxious from MMJ.
After my experience from my first grow now I take T- breaks 2-3 days if tolerance gets too high. I still wish I could use MMJ during the day regularly but dosing is too unpredictable thus far. With Kratom I get pain relief but not the same euphoria from real opiods. Can't say exactly but at least one month on kratom only. I am struggling with just going to Big Pharma's cure for the "opiod crisis" my guess is brain chemistry will even out a bit more on this regimen but know I could function much more w/o such effort taking suboxone. One pill daily & could always just shave them down for longer taper.
Last visit to my primary doc she asked if I was still taking oxy I said nah started kratom, she says have you tried CBD? At which point I pull out my PAX2 vape. I said yep but the only way I feel real benefit from CBD is vaping, I think THC much more effective for me.
Since from all reading I have done reports any CBD strains typically like 25% will yield what I want. Until I find some kind of affordable lab testing of my crops I just order flower online. I vape it alone or grind into my own stash. Then my edibles & tinctures I know have a fair amount of CBD also. I think I mixed a bit into my Green Crack Cob also.
So I am going to try to ride out a bit longer with kratom typically 12-15 gr daily. There is no desire to overdo it like with pain pills. If I was having bad time or really need to not be a cranky couch lump I would bump my pain pills & a bit of vape or tincture.
I know suboxone helps pain and improves my mood and motivation but withdrawals apparently are worse AFAIK. All reports are anecdotal but I believe it. Switching to kratom was not a picnic either initially causes gas headaches other side effects not much fun. I had not made more than a week in prior attempts. It causes health concern as well not much on safety & no one really wants to study the benefits of pain relief or opiod withdrawals.
Just another note on pain mgt w / MMJ it's really weird as a kid I was daily user for years & felt fully functional today I get so I don't feel so on point cognitively. certainly pulls me out of denial about responsibilities if I just trusted I could do what I needed to during the day would make life simpler.
Sorry if a bit disjointed and long winded! LMAO I'm always long winded which is why I don't post frequently!
Thanks to all of you for your support in this forum & site with a special ; ) to Sweet Sue Sorry took a year to post in this forum!
Due to the intense depression of having total knee replacements which seem more painful than my arthritis was it is uncertain as to how I will proceed. Aside from double TKR surgery I was primary care giver to a relative dying with cancer.
My partner and I totally were in denial of the impact of caring for a terminally ill person...it was probably a good 18 months before we began to realize the impact it has taken.
Anyway so as I said I got to 60 mg daily give or take. The most difficult part for me aside from the pain is the gloom and doom. I am self employed so w/o motivation strength and chemical changes after 20+ years of opiods up to 180 mg daily just before my surgery.
FF to today, I completed my second grow which was much more manageable at least concerning electric bills. I did winter grow my yields were less, but I think w / our current consumption will get me through until Fall comes!
I am not sure cannabis helps much with my pain but 1000% can improve my mood, I really prefer tincture GD and edibles. Did my first cobbing & totally love this curing method. The problem I had was I tended to experiment of course right after harvesting, this leads to much quality testing hence I typically am a bit too high. So my cobs one totally overdone came out looking like ABV. But makes great tincture or I just weigh out a bit use it like tobacco chew for a bit then swallow.
Eating Cobs vs ABV tends to have a steep learning curve as such made for some intense adventures! Also went on family vacation & to keep spirits up used tincture from that cob. That ended with a near psychedelic experience. It was funny as hell because our AIRBNB was a bit rustic in the Berkshires. Here I was so so high and the host had mostly portable AC units. After moving one to my kids room, all adults by now BTW, I looked at the outlet with only 2 prong plug ( the light switch was the kind w 2 buttons) I said this is sketchy probably blow a fuse.
I walked from bedroom to the dining rm he came out w panic in his eyes uhh you were right and electric blew for 1/3 of the house. So I said do you see a basement or breaker box anywhere? These are millennial's BTW he looked at me what's a breaker box?! So I had to go on a quest which led to a dark wet dirt floor basement and me with my phone light! Of course he would not enter the "scary" place! Bear in mind all knew I over did the drops as I was trying to keep pain manageable enough to meet them at a restaurant.
So let me change what I said earlier cannabis does help reduce pain for me, but it's a slippery slope. I have not done the do enough - just enough to feel the affects. Sometimes that makes me just more aware or amplifies the perceived pain.
Anyway - I just cannot deal with the pain mgt doc anymore each time I had someone that would really work with me seems they left the practice. That practice is not accepting anymore pill pain patients. Thanks again DEA! As such while I was dropping my doses & the PA believes 20 mg morphine = 20 mg oxy I had months of agony, telling myself I think I can do it. So I began experimenting with Kratom today I am using kratom, cannabis (mostly eves), still valium which helps muscle spasms or if I get a bit to anxious from MMJ.
After my experience from my first grow now I take T- breaks 2-3 days if tolerance gets too high. I still wish I could use MMJ during the day regularly but dosing is too unpredictable thus far. With Kratom I get pain relief but not the same euphoria from real opiods. Can't say exactly but at least one month on kratom only. I am struggling with just going to Big Pharma's cure for the "opiod crisis" my guess is brain chemistry will even out a bit more on this regimen but know I could function much more w/o such effort taking suboxone. One pill daily & could always just shave them down for longer taper.
Last visit to my primary doc she asked if I was still taking oxy I said nah started kratom, she says have you tried CBD? At which point I pull out my PAX2 vape. I said yep but the only way I feel real benefit from CBD is vaping, I think THC much more effective for me.
Since from all reading I have done reports any CBD strains typically like 25% will yield what I want. Until I find some kind of affordable lab testing of my crops I just order flower online. I vape it alone or grind into my own stash. Then my edibles & tinctures I know have a fair amount of CBD also. I think I mixed a bit into my Green Crack Cob also.
So I am going to try to ride out a bit longer with kratom typically 12-15 gr daily. There is no desire to overdo it like with pain pills. If I was having bad time or really need to not be a cranky couch lump I would bump my pain pills & a bit of vape or tincture.
I know suboxone helps pain and improves my mood and motivation but withdrawals apparently are worse AFAIK. All reports are anecdotal but I believe it. Switching to kratom was not a picnic either initially causes gas headaches other side effects not much fun. I had not made more than a week in prior attempts. It causes health concern as well not much on safety & no one really wants to study the benefits of pain relief or opiod withdrawals.
Just another note on pain mgt w / MMJ it's really weird as a kid I was daily user for years & felt fully functional today I get so I don't feel so on point cognitively. certainly pulls me out of denial about responsibilities if I just trusted I could do what I needed to during the day would make life simpler.
Sorry if a bit disjointed and long winded! LMAO I'm always long winded which is why I don't post frequently!
Thanks to all of you for your support in this forum & site with a special ; ) to Sweet Sue Sorry took a year to post in this forum!
Tapering Off Opioids for Pain Relief with Dr. Gregory Smith a Green Flower Media class
Decreasing or quitting opioid medications using medical cannabis.
We're all aware by now, aren't we, that our medical profession has created a nightmare of addiction by overprescribing opioid medications? I recently took a class at Green Flower Media on using cannabis to taper down the opioid dose with the hope of getting completely away from these medications that were only meant for short-term use of around two weeks.
Some Perspective
The US has 5% of the world's population but uses 80% of the opioid medications prescribed. There's been a four-fold increase in prescription opioid deaths since the year 2000, causing over 40 deaths a day, most as a result of a patient taking too much of the opioid medication. Research shows that opioids are ineffective for the long-term treatment of chronic pain. The epidemic is caused by prescription-writing practices of physicians stimulated by the marketing practices of pharmaceutical companies.
All of the studies done on opioids were done for two weeks, the length of time the medications are most effective. All of the research on cannabis was done using cannabis with around 25% THC and negligible CBD. The doses were 20-30 mg of THC, multiple times a day
Any negative effects presented by research were done with questionable science. The data of the effectiveness of cannabis as a healing herb overwhelmingly overshadows any parinoid percieved problems that've never really materialized.
There's no correlation between the studies done by our government and how cannabis is used in the real patient world.
The medical community created this opioid dilemma. This is a step towards repairing the damage.
It wasn't until a decade ago that the prescribing practices of physicians began changing. Previously opioids were for end-of-life conditions or for post-surgery. It wasn't until the last couple years, when they were doing studies to show that the opioids could be effective long-term that they discovered the tendency to increase pain perception, the opposite of what they were marketed to do. Long-term opioid use causes increased pain
Pain signalling can be modulated by simply using the power of your mind. After a few weeks the tissues are healing, so the cells are quieting. Pain isn't sharp and knife-like, but dull and achy. This is when opioids can begin to ramp up the pain signal.
Research has shown the severe problems inherent in current opioid use practices. Long-term use actually increases the patient's perception of pain, leading to higher and higher doses of opioids. Patients are regularly being terminated by their pain doctors for testing positive for "illicit substances," usually cannabis.
These opioid-addicted patients end up seeking street opioids to feed their cravings. The cheapest street solution, unfortunately, is heroin. Overdoses of herion add another 26 deaths a day to the climbing numbers of opioid failure.
Opioid tolerance and enhanced pain perception
Opioids are useful following surgery or trauma, and in the beginning, that was how they were used, for short-term pain relief. When used long-term you bring new concerns into the healing space. After a few months patients develop an addiction to the opioids. Their perception of pain is enhanced, so that minor pain is perceived as major pain. The patient's mind calls for more opioids. The harsh reality is that long-term opioid use leads to marked magnification of the pain response.
This is not what you envisioned when your doctor said "Take these every day and come back to see me in three months" was it?
Tolerance comes into play because over time the opioid receptors become desensitized. Now you need more opioids and more frequent dosing times to achieve the same level of relief. After a few months the patient can become so addicted to the opioid medication that discontinuing, or even delaying the taking of a dose, can result in the onset of severe withdrawal symptoms - sickness, pain, undeniable cravings for opioids
Early symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Anxiety/Agitation
* Muscle aches (profusely, throughout the body)
* Increased tearing for no reason
* Insomnia
* A clear, runny nose
* Sweating for unknown reasons
* Craving opioids
Later symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Intense abdominal pain
* Diarrhea
* Dialated Pupils
* Nausea and vomiting
These sick patients crave the opioids to make the sickness go away, making it difficult for an individual to make the break from opioids on their own. If a patient stops and then restarts an opioid regimen they typically require a higher dose to begin again.
A patient who stops opioids successfully and then later starts again on that same dose can end up dead. During the time away from opioids the tolerance levels are reset. You won't need as much, so if you take that much it could be fatal.
The side effects no one likes to talk about
- Severe, intractable constipation, associated with abdominal bloating, nausea, and colic.
- Decreased testosterone in males to the point where it's common for a long-term patient to need hormonal replacement therapy.
- Depression, a common occurance with long-term use.
These side effects call for the use of other prescription medications that can further complicate the treatment of chronic pain.
The dilemma described above is called opioid-induced hyperalgesia & I used to buy into it. My partner points out often that I taught her about it. I am just getting back to this forum but want to say, IMNSHO if this is in fact a real clinical occurrence I have not experienced it. What the good doctor describes as those of us struggling with chronic pain typically is more an issue of opiod tolerance.
I have done much reading scouring tapering tolerance till my eyes almost bled! I don't recall what NIH doc I found and additional studies that strongly assert it as a bogus. What most likely occurs is we just take more than we should or in my case took enough to function daily and have no pain.
When I can I will find some of the sites if anyone is interested. The rest I can attest is all true lower testosterone, depression, on and on. No doubt opiods not a good thing, but if the "theory" of opioid-induced hyperalgesia which BTW my doctor said I was afflicted with. Well he kinda mumbled it...LOL. Any way if it were so then when I cut my finger or stub my toe you get the idea, I would rail with pain whereas someone not afflicted would maybe say ouch!
I would wager a lot that someone w/o this syndrome and I went through a verified scientific test one of the best freezing cold water our reactions would be similar.
Good luck/fortune in your quest for clear headed pain relief, noobgrow1. It is such a hard thing, what you're doing.
We have two crises in regard to opioids right now:
1. The opioids
2. The response to the opioid crisis, which is making the opioid crisis worse
Keep searching brother and don't give up.
We have two crises in regard to opioids right now:
1. The opioids
2. The response to the opioid crisis, which is making the opioid crisis worse
Keep searching brother and don't give up.
- Thread starter
- #777
I believe I may have found that study noobgrow1.
Opioid-induced hyperalgesia (OIH): a real clinical problem or just an experimental phenomenon?
Now let me go back and read closely. Thank you for the candid share.
- Thread starter
- #778
That sent me down a scary rabbit hole. If OIH expression isn’t as frequent as believed and the patients misdiagnosed are being treated in a way that’s contraindicated that’s not good news for the patients.
What to do about such a thing?
What to do about such a thing?
I believe I may have found that study noobgrow1.
Opioid-induced hyperalgesia (OIH): a real clinical problem or just an experimental phenomenon?
Now let me go back and read closely. Thank you for the candid share.
Sue!
Dang woman you really kick some serious butt w/ the research! That is at least one source I have come upon. I just don't buy it. If it were such a phenomenon every heroin addict would be complaining about minor bumps and bruises all the time.
Few get as banged up as a hard core heroin addict typically when deep in throws of addiction they go for "the nod" in a past life I was a substance abuse counselor worked w / a hell of a lot of heroin addicts. The biggest trait I recall is they with the exception of compulsive gamblers are some of the all time best liars.
Sell ice to Eskimo's & would be thanked profusely for the transactions!
- Thread starter
- #780
The caution goes, “How do you know a heroin addict is lying? Their lips are moving.”
Opioids destroy lives far more often than they help them, IMHO.
I’ve been giving this thought as I work on more pressing things. It keeps popping up in my head. Some of the disturbing things I’ve learned in my studies is how many chronic illness are being misdiagnosed in large numbers and then being treated in ways that encourage disease growth.
Haven’t found a useful answer to the dilemma, other than I no longer have much faith in the official healing arts practitioners. I can’t stay in that limited mindset, I know. It’s not helpful to the cause.