One TSW2000 or 4 TS600's in a 4x4 tent: old grower learning about LEDs

[Don Smoke]

one TS3000 or 2 TS2000 is the best choice for 4x4.
The TS600 has no power supply and no dimming, which means you'll waste some of your electricity bills during the VEG phase.
The TS2000 and 3000 will also last longer than the TS600 without the power supply design.
If you compare their spectra, you will find that the TS600 has a lower red light spectrum than the other lights, and the TS2000 and 3000 have a higher red light spectrum, which is more conducive to flowering.

Hi and thanks for the great answer @Mars Hydro
I have ordered the tsw2000 already. I dont know why but i could no longer sign in under my original username.. very strange, so had to make this new account.
Thanks to everyone who replied
Really looking forward to use these new type of lights, new to this old timer anyway

 

[Don Smoke]

Hey guys, I have a question about light distances and PAR and DLI.
Mars recommend;
During seedling: above 30''
- During veg: 18~24''
- During flowering: 12~18'' above the canopy
......at full power, so i have read on several posts from google but it seems most of these posts were about the older tsw2000 without the dimmer.
Normally i would assume the light and output i s pretty much the same.
The reason for the question is, i had the light at 30" on 30% power, the week old seedlings didnt seem to like it, praying leaves and to me very slow growth.
When at this level my PPDS app on my phone showed about 300-400 umols and a DLI of about 16-20, when looking at PAR levels online the best for young seedlings seems to be about 10-15 DLI......... i have adjusted the light and they are now at about 12-14 DLI and seem to look happier and are growing a little now.

I started 4 GSCookies from fastbuds about 4 days before my light and tent came, paper towel and as soon as root showed, into their final pot, organic soil.
The temps were a bit down during the night, daytime sun heated the pots and damp inside dome covers, they poped after one day (day10/3) in these pots, but the nights were cold.... i think the nights stunted their start as they didnt do much until the tent/light arrived, once in the warmth of the tent they started to grow but are a little behind so i really want to keep the light at best distance to not hurt them any more.
Two are growing well but the other two look to be mutated but are growing in the last 2 days and will see if they grow out of it and catch up.
Tent is 4x4 18-6 hours light 22-28C and 55%RH DLI at about 14 now.
With the plants having a bad start and being small, 2 sets of leaves yesterday, it is hard for me to note effects from the light.

So any tips on how you guys use the tsw2000 during grows (PAR-DLI distance etc) i would love to know your thoughts please.

I am not too bothered as it is my first grow with these new LEDs i just want to get to grips with the light for my next beans.

P.S should i also post this in another section??


PICS are at day 10 from breaking ground...... 3 days ago.

 

[Buds Buddy]

High There ! Looks like the TSW 2000 is lighting thing up pretty good for you. I run a 2000 & a 3000 together in my 5 x 5.
Only I thing is when you get to the flowering stage, you might want to buy a couple cheap Mylar Emergency Blankets to hang in your tent to reduce it down to a 3 x 3. Cheap, easy fix that will direct more light to the flowering plants.
Personally, I'd of got the 4 - TS 600's since they do a 2 x 2. That comes out to a perfect 4 x 4 coverage & you could have 1 light on each of 4 plants which I believe would give a bigger yield.

 

[Don Smoke]

High There ! Looks like the TSW 2000 is lighting thing up pretty good for you. I run a 2000 & a 3000 together in my 5 x 5.
Only I thing is when you get to the flowering stage, you might want to buy a couple cheap Mylar Emergency Blankets to hang in your tent to reduce it down to a 3 x 3. Cheap, easy fix that will direct more light to the flowering plants.
Personally, I'd of got the 4 - TS 600's since they do a 2 x 2. That comes out to a perfect 4 x 4 coverage & you could have 1 light on each of 4 plants which I believe would give a bigger yield.

Hey Buds, i did ask Mars earlier in this thread, i also thought the same as you, used to grow indoors25 years ago and more lamps, each unit with less power gave a better overall spread... but i was advised this was best light for me, for my budget at the time.
I also had the idea of using mylar sheets to keep the reflection closer to the plants when flowering .

My problem right now is how much light to give these girls now while they are still seedlings, Today I turned lamp up to 30% and now have 15-16 DLI at the plants and have found an old house fan with an integrated ultrasonic water mister (humidifier) so now have the mister part blowing into the tent and it has raised the RH to 70% so i will see if the low RH was holding them back...... just trying to give them the best i can to help them try and bounce back.

Will see how they cope with the DLI of 15 today and the increased humidity, not expecting miracles

Going to start some other beans and will use this grow as a learning curve to get this light dialled in, so any advice from people with more experience with these lights would be great.


PICS are from this morning, at 13 days old, 3 days after above pics. Also shows humidity being blown into tent and pushed around by oscillating fan.............. not sure why some are out of focus.

 

[Reave]

How I adjust my led I watch then plants. If they have had too much light check them at about 12 hours into the day see if they are still praying to the light. If they get droopy before a few hours to lights out then raise the light or lower the power. My seedlings were happy with around 250 PPFD. Some want more and some want less. Anyway that’s how I adjust it because none of these little buggers want the same thing. I listen to the plant now.

 

[Don Smoke]

Thanks Reave, So are you saying they should be praying? and only if they droop close to lights out raise it a bit?

Trouble for me with little Auto experience and with these new lights its all a bit new to me, doesnt help the cold nights they had as they were popping so am also looking at slightly 'behind' plants too. i think i have it about right now.

I made my own organic soil i used for my outdoor phenos, so these will only get water and maybe some calmag if needed, i am a great believer of "listen to the plant" too.
Thanks

 

[Reave]

So are you saying they should be praying? and only if they droop close to lights out raise it a bit?

Plants droop for a number of reason but I have found under intense LED lights they will droop when getting too much light in one day. At least that is my experience.

And yes preying is good , I think it means they are precipitating correctly.

 

[Don Smoke]

Was trying to find some info on it, i know in my old grows praying was good... think i have miss read recently looking at info on LED lights as it's all new to me and know how easy it can be to burn with hps etc when new to it.
well i have been keeping a diary and i had the healthiest plant praying at almost what DLI i got them at now. they were so poorly i back the light off.
I checked them earlier and with the humidifier the tent was at 75-82% rh, i had the machine on second setting in the AM so have knocked it down to lower setting now the tent has acclimatised and see if it will settle more around 70%, All four plants were praying, even the two mutants! and could see a tiny bit of new growth from this morning, before they seemed life less, i wasn't expecting much growth after the bad start but they just didn't show signs of much growth before, like nothing, so today is a huge step for them and for me!

PICS are early evening and all looking a lot better

 

[Reave]

Looking real good.

 

[Don Smoke]

Looking real good.

Cheers, I think they should be ok, probably not going to grow to full potential but i am happy as the first run to get used to the lights so now i am much happier i got the light dialled in.
Just have to wait and see if the mutated ones will show some better leaves now, as it is my first time, unless they go complete mutated i will let them grow out.
Thanks for the advice Reave

 

[Buds Buddy]

I'm going to disagree with the praying part. If the leaves are pointing upwards they are reaching for the light that you have to high up. Plants will stretch & node spacing will be farther apart. To get the best photosynthesis the leaves should lay flat. At least that's what "The Grow Book & Equipment guide says". It's posted in my current journal if you're interested.

 

[Reave]

I'm going to disagree with the praying part. If the leaves are pointing upwards they are reaching for the light that you have to high up. Plants will stretch & node spacing will be farther apart. To get the best photosynthesis the leaves should lay flat. At least that's what "The Grow Book & Equipment guide says". It's posted in my current journal if you're interested.

please post it. There is a difference between happy praying and stretch praying. Just look at all the growers in flower with perfect plants and tell me whichbway and angle their leaves are.

 

[Buds Buddy]

please post it. There is a difference between happy praying and stretch praying. Just look at all the growers in flower with perfect plants and tell me whichbway and angle their leaves are.

Lot's of people have their own opinions on that. I'm just stating what my book says & the way I do it. I'll look through my scanned files tonight for the article on it. It's also in my journal.
Because lot's of people do it .... does that make it correct ? Lot's of people drink & drive too !

 

[Reave]

Lot's of people have their own opinions on that. I'm just stating what my book says & the way I do it. I'll look through my scanned files tonight for the article on it. It's also in my journal.
Because lot's of people do it .... does that make it correct ? Lot's of people drink & drive too !

Come Grow With Me: A Beginners Guide Your own plants are praying bud, Im not arguing Im asking for evidence of your claim. Please provide it so we can all learn together.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Come Grow With Me: A Beginners Guide Your own plants are praying bud, Im not arguing Im asking for evidence of your claim. Please provide it so we can all learn together.

Hey Reave, I think my book may have outdated info. It's from 2000. I did a bunch of internet searches on praying leaves & 4 out of 5 say praying leaves are good most the time; but not always. Depends on the health & growth rate of the plant. Maybe because it was written before the days of the newer lighting technology, not really sure why it says that.
Then again, this book is written by a Hydroponic Equipment store owner & it sure seems like he was more of a salesman in his book.
Anyways, sorry about the misunderstanding. Now I'm not sure which is best. I've always tried to keep my leaves laying out flat because of that book. This grow was kind of an exception as I started with 25 plants & it was too much trouble to raise & lower my lights so they've been at the same height the entire grow.

 

[Don Smoke]

Hey Reave, I think my book may have outdated info. It's from 2000. I did a bunch of internet searches on praying leaves & 4 out of 5 say praying leaves are good most the time; but not always. Depends on the health & growth rate of the plant. Maybe because it was written before the days of the newer lighting technology, not really sure why it says that.
Then again, this book is written by a Hydroponic Equipment store owner & it sure seems like he was more of a salesman in his book.
Anyways, sorry about the misunderstanding. Now I'm not sure which is best. I've always tried to keep my leaves laying out flat because of that book. This grow was kind of an exception as I started with 25 plants & it was too much trouble to raise & lower my lights so they've been at the same height the entire grow.

I have grown since i was 20 i am now over 50..... started building carbon scrubbers and ebb and flow tables before they were for sale in 'grow shops', so seen a lot of plants and praying is normally a good thing, praying, being spindly and stretching so fast you can see the jump in a day is lack of light.......... i have moved my yellow stick labels in the pots each day level with top of each plant to check this, small normal upward growth and they only started praying when i increased the light, they weren't praying for the 3 days before with much less light..... also by the end of the day i could see new growth as in the next set of leaves starting to form, a huge step for them so think i have light about dialled in now........ thanks for the input though Buds Buddy!!

But you made a good point about that info being a bit out of date. And is exactly why i was questioning my light height, these new LED's are much different to the old HID's etc i used to use and did not want to under or over light them with DLI, especially after their slow start they had....... yesterday i went from 15 DLI to 20 DLI and they have taken to it very well............. i also think me increasing the humidity to 70% has also helped them. but the light is my main learning curve and now think i have it pretty good and can only get better.

Cheers guys!

 

[Buds Buddy]

I have grown since i was 20 i am now over 50..... started building carbon scrubbers and ebb and flow tables before they were for sale in 'grow shops', so seen a lot of plants and praying is normally a good thing, praying, being spindly and stretching so fast you can see the jump in a day is lack of light.......... i have moved my yellow stick labels in the pots each day level with top of each plant to check this, small normal upward growth and they only started praying when i increased the light, they weren't praying for the 3 days before with much less light..... also by the end of the day i could see new growth as in the next set of leaves starting to form, a huge step for them so think i have light about dialled in now........ thanks for the input though Buds Buddy!!

But you made a good point about that info being a bit out of date. And is exactly why i was questioning my light height, these new LED's are much different to the old HID's etc i used to use and did not want to under or over light them with DLI, especially after their slow start they had....... yesterday i went from 15 DLI to 20 DLI and they have taken to it very well............. i also think me increasing the humidity to 70% has also helped them. but the light is my main learning curve and now think i have it pretty good and can only get better.

Cheers guys!

I usually use my LUX Meter to determine light height. I just had too many plants this grow to be trying to raise & lower my lights. I wont do 25 plants at once again. Too hard to keep up with. 4 - 6 hours work every 2 days during flower. Wasn't so bad in Veg but now that they are bigger & drink so much it's a lot of work. I go through about 20 gal. of nutes every 2 days on just the 13 plants I have left. Looking forward to hooking up my drip system to make feeding easier.
Anyway, I think I need to buy some up to date books. Seems the newest one I have has a 2010 copyright date so even it's 11 years old. Anyone know of books published in the last 3 years ?

 

[Reave]

Hey Reave, I think my book may have outdated info. It's from 2000. I did a bunch of internet searches on praying leaves & 4 out of 5 say praying leaves are good most the time; but not always. Depends on the health & growth rate of the plant. Maybe because it was written before the days of the newer lighting technology, not really sure why it says that.
Then again, this book is written by a Hydroponic Equipment store owner & it sure seems like he was more of a salesman in his book.
Anyways, sorry about the misunderstanding. Now I'm not sure which is best. I've always tried to keep my leaves laying out flat because of that book. This grow was kind of an exception as I started with 25 plants & it was too much trouble to raise & lower my lights so they've been at the same height the entire grow.

No problem at all. I’m just here to learn and I have only been growing for two years so I still have many many things to learn. That said I am a quick study and do research as best I can. Lots of the information is changing since legalization. We are moving from bro science to actual science. This one guy I was listening to on a podcast said that we are in the stages where we were with when lemon juice fought scurvy. They didn’t know about vitemen c but they knew it helped. Later they found out why. It is the same with plants. They know some things effect the microbials and system as a whole they just don’t know why yet. Even though they thought they did. Folic acid is one of those things now he was saying. A lot of that talk was over my head but I got the idea. Happy growing friend. I checked out your journal and you have a great looking garden.

 

[Reave]

wont do 25 plants at once again. Too hard to keep up with. 4 - 6 hours work every 2 days during flower.

I was kinda jelly of your grow space until I read this. I dunno if I need that much extra work.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I was kinda jelly of your grow space until I read this. I dunno if I need that much extra work.

If I had a large open area it might not be so bad. But I have to pull plants out of the tent & Flower room to feed every time. Probably takes an hour just to mix & pH the nutes. Another hour moving plants in & out. The rest of the time tying, trimming & feeding. I'm sticking with 4 - 5 plant grows from now on. 2 Tents - 1 for veg & 1 for Flower.