One or More Plants Die During Every Grow ... What Am I Doing Wrong?

Are you committed to hydro? If not, hempy or coco like Bluter mentioned, or a soil SIP grow (link in my sig) might be a simpler grow option at least until you get the basics down.

Any of those methods will challenge hydro in terms of yield but have a lot fewer things that can go wrong.
 
Are you committed to hydro?
Hey Azimuth,

Thanks again for the advice. The only reason I am "committed" to hydro is because that's all I've ever known since I started growing 8 years ago. I have absolutely no clue how to grow in soil (or any other medium, for that matter), and to date, I haven't had the balls to try (call it fear of the unknown?). It would be starting all over for me and would involve trashing all the equipment, nutes, etc. that I currently have and replacing all of that with what would be required for growing in the new medium. I know there's plenty of good advice on this forum about growing in mediums other than hydro. My current plan is to start this next grow (in about two weeks) with hydro using the newly acquired chiller (arriving on or about Nov. 27th) I'll have and implementing some of the other suggestions you guys made (including fewer plants). If I still have a 25% - 50% plant fallout, I will try my next grow with another medium. Meanwhile, during the 4-month grow cycle, I'll use the time to study the forum here, educate myself, and formulate a plan for using something other than hydro on the next grow to see if my results improve.

I sincerely appreciate the efforts you, Bill284, bluter, and SmokingWings have exerted to help me.

... Don
 
Hey Azimuth,

Thanks again for the advice. The only reason I am "committed" to hydro is because that's all I've ever known since I started growing 8 years ago. I have absolutely no clue how to grow in soil (or any other medium, for that matter), and to date, I haven't had the balls to try (call it fear of the unknown?). It would be starting all over for me and would involve trashing all the equipment, nutes, etc. that I currently have and replacing all of that with what would be required for growing in the new medium. I know there's plenty of good advice on this forum about growing in mediums other than hydro. My current plan is to start this next grow (in about two weeks) with hydro using the newly acquired chiller (arriving on or about Nov. 27th) I'll have and implementing some of the other suggestions you guys made (including fewer plants). If I still have a 25% - 50% plant fallout, I will try my next grow with another medium. Meanwhile, during the 4-month grow cycle, I'll use the time to study the forum here, educate myself, and formulate a plan for using something other than hydro on the next grow to see if my results improve.

I sincerely appreciate the efforts you, Bill284, bluter, and SmokingWings have exerted to help me.

... Don
Hey Don :ciao: good morning Amigo.
I understand you have all that equipment and experience in hydro so a change can be worrisome, and expensive.
You have some good suggestions that I'm sure will improve your garden.
I run coco @Bill284 Method, which is technically hydro aswell.
Simple easy way to grow huge girls.
If you ever decide to experiment with a couple pots I can explain everything and help if needed.
But I'm sure your about to have your best hydro grow yet and won't even consider changing after that.;)
Hope you decide to run a journal and hang with us.
We love having new members grow great gardens. :thumb:




Stay safe
Bill284 😎
 
If you ever decide to experiment with a couple pots I can explain everything and help if needed.
Stay tuned, sports fans ... I'm going to take you up on that offer!

Where do I start? What do I need to purchase/acquire? This will be that "education" I referred to while I'm waiting on this next grow to finish. Point me to some good "starting point" info about it so I can begin putting together what I will need.

Can't thank you guys enough!
... Don

Hope you decide to run a journal and hang with us.
Count on it!
 
Hey Azimuth,

Thanks again for the advice. The only reason I am "committed" to hydro is because that's all I've ever known since I started growing 8 years ago.

i got out of active hydro yrs ago after a move. having to haul and set up all the gear pushed me into simpler methods. it's good to explore different grow styles. a lot of the experience is transferrable from one method to another. it helps to have a broad base of understanding.
 
Stay tuned, sports fans ... I'm going to take you up on that offer!

Where do I start? What do I need to purchase/acquire? This will be that "education" I referred to while I'm waiting on this next grow to finish. Point me to some good "starting point" info about it so I can begin putting together what I will need.

Can't thank you guys enough!
... Don


Count on it!
You can have a look at that thread.
It has the most pictorials on my method.
Everything from solo cups to 200 gallon bags.
I use coco and perlite in a specific method to build huge root balls that give me massive harvests.
I utilize Bokashi & Frass in my root zone with DYNOMYCO for a healthy root ball.
It's in every pictorial.
It increases the volume of nutrients I can uptake daily.
Plus it keeps them healthy.
I prefer air pots but bags work well too.
Have a look I can explain everything in detail when required.
I've had lots of members use it very successfully.
It gives you the benefit of hydro growth with the convince of a pot.







Stay safe
Bill284 😎
 
You can have a look at that thread.
It has the most pictorials on my method.
Everything from solo cups to 200 gallon bags.
I use coco and perlite in a specific method to build huge root balls that give me massive harvests.
I utilize Bokashi & Frass in my root zone with DYNOMYCO for a healthy root ball.
It's in every pictorial.
It increases the volume of nutrients I can uptake daily.
Plus it keeps them healthy.
I prefer air pots but bags work well too.
Have a look I can explain everything in detail when required.
I've had lots of members use it very successfully.
It gives you the benefit of hydro growth with the convince of a pot.







Stay safe
Bill284 😎
GREAT! I'll dive in ... feels like I'm back in school again 😜
 
The only reason I am "committed" to hydro is because that's all I've ever known since I started growing 8 years ago. I have absolutely no clue how to grow in soil (or any other medium, for that matter), and to date, I haven't had the balls to try (call it fear of the unknown?).
Understandable.

It would be starting all over for me and would involve trashing all the equipment, nutes, etc. that I currently have and replacing all of that with what would be required for growing in the new medium.
Nah, not necessarily. I feel that a fair amount of the equipment you already have could be used if you were to start trying to grow with other 'hydro'.

Same with nutrients. Many fertilizer companies mention that their line of fertilizers can be used both for hydro and soil methods of growing. Pretty much all that really changes will be the amounts to use and how often.
 
Understandable.


Nah, not necessarily. I feel that a fair amount of the equipment you already have could be used if you were to start trying to grow with other 'hydro'.

Same with nutrients. Many fertilizer companies mention that their line of fertilizers can be used both for hydro and soil methods of growing. Pretty much all that really changes will be the amounts to use and how often.
You"ve made me feel better about it alteady 🤔
 
The three alternatives I'd suggest are @bluter 's perlite hempy grows (link in his signature above), @Bill284 's coco grows, or looking at the SIP Club for soil grows (link in my sig).

Bluter's or Bill's styles will be closer to what you're already doing so I'd start with those two, but any of them would be good alternatives to at least have a look at.
 
The three alternatives I'd suggest are @bluter 's perlite hempy grows (link in his signature above), @Bill284 's coco grows, or looking at the SIP Club for soil grows (link in my sig).

Bluter's or Bill's styles will be closer to what you're already doing so I'd start with those two, but any of them would be good alternatives to at least have a look at.
Thanks, Azimuth ..
I'm going to study all three this weekend. I'll get back with any questions.

Have a great weekend, my friend!
...Don
 
I've read through the thread and I think your decision to go with fewer plants is the right move.

Two key points about water temperature - at 64°, phosphorus uptake starts to roll off. Dissolved oxygen levels do tend to increase as temperature drops but I would not run a hydro grow at 64°. One issue is that it's not going to be 64°. It's going to be about 64° and, since P uptake rolls off at 64 and the level of DO is only slightly higher at 64 than at a slightly higher, safer temperature there's little benefit yet there can be a signficant negative impact to water that cold. I've grown at 68° for years without issue and have had excellent results.

A water chiller does throw off some heat—it is an electrical device that reduces the temperature of water and that energy has to go somewhere, right? If heat is an issue, move the chiller to another location, and drop in a submersible pump. The hoses to my chiller are 15' or so.

The difference between an Active Aqua chiller, for example, at $400 and less expensive chillers might be because Active Aqua uses a titanium core in their chillers. My chiller has been in use to four years and has worked flawlessly.

Re. the number plants is an issue. The key to yield is not the number of plants. The key to yield is how many mols of light the plant/plants over the lifetime of the grow. The formula for yield is based on moles of per square meter of canopy. More light ≈ more weed.

Something's got to catch all of those photons and that's where the idea of "more plants" comes in. But it's not more plants, per se, it's the larger canopy area that's the key. If you grow one large plant vs multiple small plants, the yield is very similar. The biggest issue is to generate lots of light and make sure that you have lots of canopy to catch all of those photons.

Confirm that this is the system that you're using?

If that's the case, I would grow one plant. It's only an 8 gallon bucket so the actual volume of nutrient liquid is about 6 gallons I would estimate. As you've demonstrated, a reservoir that size cannot support five plants.

A "5 gallon bucket" holds about four gallons and you can get a nice crop from one plant in a 5 gallon bucket. As a point of reference, I grow in a "35 gallon" reservoir which holds 28 gallons of nutrients and, historically, I've grown one plant. My current growy current grow is two plants and I should have stuck with just one.

Not many growers use a "35 gallon" res but my grow is a DWC setup with a water chiller so the information and the lessons learned at the grow journal links in my signature block might be helpful.
 
I've read through the thread and I think your decision to go with fewer plants is the right move.

Two key points about water temperature - at 64°, phosphorus uptake starts to roll off. Dissolved oxygen levels do tend to increase as temperature drops but I would not run a hydro grow at 64°. One issue is that it's not going to be 64°. It's going to be about 64° and, since P uptake rolls off at 64 and the level of DO is only slightly higher at 64 than at a slightly higher, safer temperature there's little benefit yet there can be a signficant negative impact to water that cold. I've grown at 68° for years without issue and have had excellent results.

A water chiller does throw off some heat—it is an electrical device that reduces the temperature of water and that energy has to go somewhere, right? If heat is an issue, move the chiller to another location, and drop in a submersible pump. The hoses to my chiller are 15' or so.

The difference between an Active Aqua chiller, for example, at $400 and less expensive chillers might be because Active Aqua uses a titanium core in their chillers. My chiller has been in use to four years and has worked flawlessly.

Re. the number plants is an issue. The key to yield is not the number of plants. The key to yield is how many mols of light the plant/plants over the lifetime of the grow. The formula for yield is based on moles of per square meter of canopy. More light ≈ more weed.

Something's got to catch all of those photons and that's where the idea of "more plants" comes in. But it's not more plants, per se, it's the larger canopy area that's the key. If you grow one large plant vs multiple small plants, the yield is very similar. The biggest issue is to generate lots of light and make sure that you have lots of canopy to catch all of those photons.

Confirm that this is the system that you're using?

If that's the case, I would grow one plant. It's only an 8 gallon bucket so the actual volume of nutrient liquid is about 6 gallons I would estimate. As you've demonstrated, a reservoir that size cannot support five plants.

A "5 gallon bucket" holds about four gallons and you can get a nice crop from one plant in a 5 gallon bucket. As a point of reference, I grow in a "35 gallon" reservoir which holds 28 gallons of nutrients and, historically, I've grown one plant. My current growy current grow is two plants and I should have stuck with just one.

Not many growers use a "35 gallon" res but my grow is a DWC setup with a water chiller so the information and the lessons learned at the grow journal links in my signature block might be helpful.
Thanks so much, Delps8, for your comprehensive consideration. Regarding the ideal liquid temp, I have done some research on that these past few days and I'm finding answers ranging from 64 deg. F to 68 deg. F. I'm going to look at a few more sites and then make up my mind what temp I'll use.

The light volume I have is from two 600W LED lights ... which should be more than adequate for the space in my grow tent. I get what you're saying about the effect of the canopy coverage ... makes sense. I also know that to get that kind of coverage from a single plant, I'd have to use topping (and or other techniques) ... and so far, I haven't had the nerve to do that since I don't know what the hell I'm doing and am afraid of killing the plant. I have watched a number of videos on the topic ... but still feel horribly unqualified!

The actual liquid volume in the reservoir I'm using is 8 gallons. The reservoir holds more than that (probably 10 gallons?) but 8 gallons brings the water level up to just beneath the plant basket bottom (where it needs to be in hydroponics). Besides cutting back from 5 plants, I'm also going to replace the reservoir with something larger. I will also have the chiller external to the grow tent. I'm also redoing my exhaust system from the tent to vent the heat outside the room (closet) where the grow tent is located. Right now, it vents to the same room ... which I know is kind of stupid!

I'll check out your grow journals ... I'm like a sponge right now when it comes to all this "new" education you guys are so kind to provide me.

Thanks again for taking your valuable time to help me out with this ... I sincerely appreciate it!

... Don
 
Thanks so much, Delps8, for your comprehensive consideration. Regarding the ideal liquid temp, I have done some research on that these past few days and I'm finding answers ranging from 64 deg. F to 68 deg. F. I'm going to look at a few more sites and then make up my mind what temp I'll use.

The light volume I have is from two 600W LED lights ... which should be more than adequate for the space in my grow tent. I get what you're saying about the effect of the canopy coverage ... makes sense. I also know that to get that kind of coverage from a single plant, I'd have to use topping (and or other techniques) ... and so far, I haven't had the nerve to do that since I don't know what the hell I'm doing and am afraid of killing the plant. I have watched a number of videos on the topic ... but still feel horribly unqualified!
:)
I get it about topping. I've never grown anything before I started growing cannabis so I was hesitant but it's really very simple. I top above the fourth node. Interestingly, whether is an auto or a photo, they're ready to top right around the 21 day mark. One hint - wait until the plant has grown enough so that you can leave at least ½" of stem above where you top. That will reduce the chances of the stem splitting when the plant gets older. Overall, cannabis is very forgiving.


The actual liquid volume in the reservoir I'm using is 8 gallons. The reservoir holds more than that (probably 10 gallons?) but 8 gallons brings the water level up to just beneath the plant basket bottom (where it needs to be in hydroponics). Besides cutting back from 5 plants, I'm also going to replace the reservoir with something larger. I will also have the chiller external to the grow tent. I'm also redoing my exhaust system from the tent to vent the heat outside the room (closet) where the grow tent is located. Right now, it vents to the same room ... which I know is kind of stupid!
Don't knock yourself. It takes time to figure things out.

8 gallons will be one happy plant. If you check out the offerings at PA Hydro, you'll see that they offer 8 and 13 gallon setups. Those are excellent kits, BTW.


I'll check out your grow journals ... I'm like a sponge right now when it comes to all this "new" education you guys are so kind to provide me.

Thanks again for taking your valuable time to help me out with this ... I sincerely appreciate it!

... Don
The earlier journals reflect my ignorance and my "helicopter (plant) daddy" perspective. It took a while for me to get it but eventually it sunk in — It's.A.Plant.

Give it lots of light, go easy on the fertilizer, resist the urge to hack off leaves, and you'll end up with a really good harvest.
 
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