I'm in 4th week of flower with Skywalker OG in Happy frog, using RO water with 5ml of "Calmag Plus" per gallon, Ph 6.4. I added 1 TBS of Earth Juice Rainbow Mix organic bloom nutes at 3rd week of being transplanted into Happy frog, which would have been 2nd week of flower. I'm in 5 gal plastic pots. In a 2x4x6 tent with mars hydro tsl 2000 300w led set at 65% strength. Temps. Are 75 degrees F when lights on- 70 degrees when lights off...45-55% humidity. Symptoms started with lightning of the green pigment on newer leaves...so I upped the Calmag to 7.5ml per gal., thinking it was the start of Calmag deficiency... leaves stayed the same followed by edges and tips turning yellow into brown. I had the same problem in Ocean Forest the last two grows, but had no problem with the first grow using ocean Forest. Last 2 grows had same problems around same time, so I thought I'd try happy frog since it is less hot than ocean Forest, and with my added organic bloom fertilizer I thought I would be good this time... NOPE, same problem. What am I not picking up on??! Just flushed them with 10gal plain 6.4 Ph two days ago...these are pics from today
Nutrient burn - again!
- Thread starter Cheschire
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Listersmeghead
Well-Known Member
Hiya cheschire.
Do you know the N-P-K values of the earth juice bloom mix?
All I can find online is it's 2-14-2.
I'm not sure that's correct. If it is correct that's a lot of phosphorous in the mix, very little nitrogen and potassium.
Do you know the N-P-K values of the earth juice bloom mix?
All I can find online is it's 2-14-2.
I'm not sure that's correct. If it is correct that's a lot of phosphorous in the mix, very little nitrogen and potassium.
With all that growth and foliage, 65% light strength in flower seems low to me.
I think @Listersmeghead is on the right track. I find the same numbers. Your Fox Farms doesn't have enough nutrition to carry you through a grow. Probably not even enough to get it all the way through veg properly. Then your bloom nutes are a horrible ratio. Not nearly enough N or K and massive amounts of P. They are pale from lack of N, and the "burn" you think you're seeing is necrosis from lack of K. You don't have burn from overfeeding or hot soil, what you have is starvation.
Listersmeghead
Well-Known Member
As far as I can tell the earth juice is a 2 part system. The grow part is a slow release fert that you can mix into the soil. This provides the N & K part for the whole grow, then you add the bloom as Well later.
So you're only getting 1 part of the formula with the bloom.
It seems more a general purpose fert like miracle grow..great if you can get the balance of N-P-K right.
I'd go for something a little more canna specific.
So you're only getting 1 part of the formula with the bloom.
It seems more a general purpose fert like miracle grow..great if you can get the balance of N-P-K right.
I'd go for something a little more canna specific.
You have successfully grown a plant to the limits of the soil and the amounts of fertilizer you are adding to that soil. The plant needs more than what it is able to get and that is why you are seeing the problems on the leaf. Success is great but it sometimes introduces a new problem or two.
The amounts of NPK in the Earth Juice Rainbow Mix organic bloom nutrient mix are not enough. The Grow Mix contains the Nitrogen and Potassium that @Listersmeghead mentions. Best bet is to add the Grow along with the Bloom at the amounts recommended by the company.
It might not be necessary to continue adding the Cal-Mag at 7.5ml per gallon since there seems to be plenty of Calcium in the combined Grow and Bloom. Supposedly it is hard to overdose plants with Calcium buy why push luck.
That is what it looks like is happening.
Putting the two part fertilizer program together should really help reduce the deficiencies we are seeing. Will they go away, no, but they can be slowed down to almost a total stop and I look at that as a winning situation. And you should be able to carry on through harvest.
Will the leaves repair themselves? No, for the most part, nope. Except for some of the yellow caused by low Nitrogen which once that start being taken up by the root system does allow leaves to start greening up.can fix itself. Other nutrient deficiency damage is usually permanent. Leave the damaged leaves on until the plant is finished with them and they will fall off by themselves or with a slight tug.
While working on the nutrient deficiencies that are showing there is plenty of time to start check out what looks like insect damage visible front and center in the first photograph in the opening message.
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They seemed to burn quicker, so I turned it down from 75%
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- #8
That makes total sense, because I did not use the veg nutrients because I was scared of getting nutrient burn like the last couple of times
Yes...always battling the mites...I layed off the Dr.Z spray because I wasn't sure if too much of that was causing any problems for I was spraying daily when lights went off to try to get on top of the almost infestation
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- #9
Turning it back up now. Lol
Never used the Dr. Z stuff and it has been awhile since I have read the label on a bottle. But, I am guessing it is a contact spray and maybe systemic.
Be sure that the spray is getting the underside of the leaves. At times I do not even bother to spray the top of the leaf since I feel it accomplishes very little since the insects rarely will be walking or crawling around on the top side while the lights are on. I even use my free hand to separate the stems so I can spray into the center of the leaf canopy.
Makeminefullgrown
Well-Known Member
To me this looks like a plant that’s been well taken care of overall but is showing you what’s she’s lacking. She’s hungry and taking from her reserves.
Happy Frog is not amended as heavily as Ocean Forest (which u already know) and will need the proper nutrients added in the correct ratios almost from the start….at least when you transplant a mature plant into it.
While the plant won’t use as much N during flower, it stills needs it and in early flower it should still be given at levels similar to veg.
So I’m thinking that when you upped the cal mag it would have been better to give something w/more macros.
The flush likely made the issue worse….while you may have reset your soil, you also leeched out some needed nutrients.
Your buds look great and you don’t have too many weeks left. Feed her an appropriate bloom nutrient…..a 1-3-2 (N-P-K) would be a safe bet. And keep her fed until she’s ready.
Smartly, you’ve left enough foliage, with enough reserves, to carry it for the next month or so…provided you give her what she needs.
Happy Frog is not amended as heavily as Ocean Forest (which u already know) and will need the proper nutrients added in the correct ratios almost from the start….at least when you transplant a mature plant into it.
While the plant won’t use as much N during flower, it stills needs it and in early flower it should still be given at levels similar to veg.
So I’m thinking that when you upped the cal mag it would have been better to give something w/more macros.
The flush likely made the issue worse….while you may have reset your soil, you also leeched out some needed nutrients.
Your buds look great and you don’t have too many weeks left. Feed her an appropriate bloom nutrient…..a 1-3-2 (N-P-K) would be a safe bet. And keep her fed until she’s ready.
Smartly, you’ve left enough foliage, with enough reserves, to carry it for the next month or so…provided you give her what she needs.
Redwiggler
Well-Known Member
I’ve had ph, nutrient lok out problems and I’ve done everything correctly……EXCEPT….. I WASN’t cleaning my ph pen and calibrating frequently.
Since I marked on my daytimer to do these two things every 10 days..no problem.
I was ph my solutions…getting nutrient burn…then told to check the ph with my spare ph , meter…what I thought was 6.2, was in fact 5.4.
so, I mention this as a possibility for people that are doing everything correctly.
Since I marked on my daytimer to do these two things every 10 days..no problem.
I was ph my solutions…getting nutrient burn…then told to check the ph with my spare ph , meter…what I thought was 6.2, was in fact 5.4.
so, I mention this as a possibility for people that are doing everything correctly.
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
I'm having the same problem with Fox Farm soils, everything looks great until around week 5 of flower and then all hell breaks loose. Are you on the east coast by chance? There are a lot of bad batches of Fox Farm being sold on the east coast.
I have a thread up trying to figure out why I'm struggling mid flower. One of our master growers here mentioned that Happy Frog has Sphaghum Moss and it has a tendency to become acidic over a few months. You really need to check your soil PH, mine dropped to 4.5 and caused lockout. (3 times, three grows all mid flower)).
Flushing can help, (it got me to harvest) but I've found that Happy Frog doesn't do well when watered heavily. The soil likes to be lightly watered or it will become compacted. After flushing, you can see the soil level drop at least an inch (not good)... So, next grow I'll try Happy Frog one more time, but this time I will try to lighten up the soil with more perlite, rice hulls, or maybe mix it 50/50 with light warrior.
First Pic Durban Poison before all hell breaking loose, second after... (one plant)
Last thing, I tried Ocean Forest twice--two different bags of soil from two different nurseries. You don't want to see those pictures, the plants look horrible. I won't touch Ocean Forest again.
I have a thread up trying to figure out why I'm struggling mid flower. One of our master growers here mentioned that Happy Frog has Sphaghum Moss and it has a tendency to become acidic over a few months. You really need to check your soil PH, mine dropped to 4.5 and caused lockout. (3 times, three grows all mid flower)).
Flushing can help, (it got me to harvest) but I've found that Happy Frog doesn't do well when watered heavily. The soil likes to be lightly watered or it will become compacted. After flushing, you can see the soil level drop at least an inch (not good)... So, next grow I'll try Happy Frog one more time, but this time I will try to lighten up the soil with more perlite, rice hulls, or maybe mix it 50/50 with light warrior.
First Pic Durban Poison before all hell breaking loose, second after... (one plant)
Last thing, I tried Ocean Forest twice--two different bags of soil from two different nurseries. You don't want to see those pictures, the plants look horrible. I won't touch Ocean Forest again.
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- #14
What grow medium would you suggest? I used to use Pro Mix BX waaaaay back in the day when there was really nothing else to choose from...I know it is a nute-less mix so everything is up to you on add-ons.I'm having the same problem with Fox Farm soils, everything looks great until around week 5 of flower and then all hell breaks loose. Are you on the east coast by chance? There are a lot of bad batches of Fox Farm being sold on the east coast.
I have a thread up trying to figure out why I'm struggling mid flower. One of our master growers here mentioned that Happy Frog has Sphaghum Moss and it has a tendency to become acidic over a few months. You really need to check your soil PH, mine dropped to 4.5 and caused lockout. (3 times, three grows all mid flower)).
Flushing can help, (it got me to harvest) but I've found that Happy Frog doesn't do well when watered heavily. The soil likes to be lightly watered or it will become compacted. After flushing, you can see the soil level drop at least an inch (not good)... So, next grow I'll try Happy Frog one more time, but this time I will try to lighten up the soil with more perlite, rice hulls, or maybe mix it 50/50 with light warrior.
First Pic Durban Poison before all hell breaking loose, second after... (one plant)
Last thing, I tried Ocean Forest twice--two different bags of soil from two different nurseries. You don't want to see those pictures, the plants look horrible. I won't touch Ocean Forest again.
There have been many threads started by soil growers who have problems start to show up several weeks into the flowering cycle. We, as growers start to push the plant to produce as much as possible and that often is more than the soil and soil micro-organisms can provide.
Once we start to help out by adding fertilizers with decent N-P-K ratios and some additional micro nutrients the plants start to produce more than just the soil alone.
The thing I have found is that I have to start using these fertilizers at the beginning of flowering and sometimes a bit sooner.
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
That is a good question! As a new grower, I had hoped that buying high end soil (Fox Farm Etc..) would be all that I needed but I was very wrong. Every bag of dirt you buy can be good or bad for many reasons. For example, go to your local nursery and look to see how the soil is stored. I was surprised to see most soil stored on pallets outside with NO protection from rain or bugs. Many of the bags had big gaping holes as well.
To answer your question. I don't know, and sadly it's not as simple as you'd think. I'm leaning towards adjusting Happy Frog soil and sending it out to have it thoroughly tested. I'll be using up my bag of Happy Frog one more time before giving up on Fox Farm using Dolomite lime, Worm Casings, Rice Hulls, and Perlite.
I've heard Pro Mix, Roots Organics, and Coast of Maine Platinum are decent, but they all have the same problems I mention above. If your nursery isn't taking care of the soil, your stuck.
@Cheschire Turning it back up now. Lol
Soil issues all year. Finally found local supplier with out infestation issues. Fml
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
Yes, and add the fact that yellowing of leaves and Senesense can be normal towards the end of flowering, so as a newbie it's tough to troubleshoot. I've seen many pictures of big buds on Seedbank photos (420) for example with plants leaves that look horrible at flower end.
In my case, I know I have a PH problem mid flower, either salt build up or soil deterioration. (Spaghum Moss) If I can just keep my plant healthy to around week 7 of flower, I'll be happy.
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