Sueet
Well-Known Member
It is NOT a 'bad' batch of soil if your problems are starting at 4 weeks into flowering. Any soil you buy in a bag is going to be depleted by that point. The plant is simply starving to death.
Nutrient burn - again!
- Thread starter Cheschire
- Start date
I am doing everything I can to keep my plants as green as they can be for at least the first 6 weeks after the pistils start showing. Two more, maybe three, weeks and I am harvesting.
To a point, yes, it is considered normal. But with some extra work put into nutrient schedules and amounts this yellowing can be reduced. The buds are bigger and the quality increases.
Senescence is normal in plants when they are done for the season. To have excessive yellowing while annual plants are still attempting to finish ripening fruit/seeds during their one and only chance to perpetuate the specie is not good for a next generation. Even annual plants that flower and produce seeds all summer long don't drop their leaves until the very end.
If we want to get all we can from our plants then we have to slow down the start of the Senescence and its death spiral.
When growing or gardening is a hobby then troubleshooting is part of the game.
Troubleshooting can still be part of the game if growing is not a hobby but then it might not be as satisfying even when we get it right.
- Thread starter
- #23
I think the "bad batch" reference was to the infestation of larve in the medium
Sueet
Well-Known Member
Even if that is true, it is not a 'bad' batch of soil if things want to live in it, and it is not the manufacturer's fault if the vendors store it outside.
Of course the bags get damaged, that really can't be prevented. If you find soil that is stored outside that nothing is living in, you should take that as a cue that a plant probably wont like it either.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
This thread is a good example of common issues that growers have while using Fox Farms soil or similar media. It's not easy to judge when plants need supplemental nutrition.
On the other hand, this is not a problem with peat and coco because the grower always determines what the feed is. The awkward transition phase of running out of nutes in the soil and providing supplements never happens.
On the other hand, this is not a problem with peat and coco because the grower always determines what the feed is. The awkward transition phase of running out of nutes in the soil and providing supplements never happens.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
That's true, but then you have to be hands on every single day with those media, where soil gives you time. Every style has merits to it, but also disadvantages. Best to choose whichever one suits you best
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
Peat can be watered like soil. One big watering every 2-3 days.
Coco benefits from more frequent watering.
Coco benefits from more frequent watering.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
And pure peat always runs into pH troubles eventually. They all have ups and downs.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
Ready to use mixes of peat, perlite and lime do not commonly have pH issues if the feed is pH'ed correctly. It's a forgiving media. The runoff can be as low as 5.3ph early in the grow and as high as 7.8pH late in the grow without getting any leaf issues. That's a huge range.
Infested soil is considered bad soil when, you're in controlled environment.
And if soil is packaged, sealed, and stored properly there shouldn't be anything In it.
If I wanted to throw money and time down the drain fixing pest issues, I would go dig a hole.
Most people like to use controlled media indoors. I don't care about the occasional pest. But when you slice into a bag, and every organism on god's earth falls out.......you ain't putting that shit in your grow room. I dunno maybe you do.
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
It was brought to my attention that many are having problems with Happy Frog becoming acidic late in the grow. Apparently, Sphagnum moss deteriorates and can cause the PH to drop. I also have problems with Happy Frog and Aeration/Drainage and soil becoming compacted (with added perlite).
On the other side, one of the bags of Ocean Forest I purchased was rancid. After watering it, my grow room spelled like a pig farm. Both batches of Ocean Forest I purchased were pure poison.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
And it is my contention that the issues occur after they are sold - Soil is not something that gets stored indoors generally. I will agree that soil with wildlife living in it isn't ideal for indoors but again I say it isn't the manufacturers fault. The simple fact that there is so much good stuff in the bag is the reason things want to live there. If the soil was bad, it would be bereft of life.
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
Here are a few responses I got from folks here concerning Happy Frog...
happy frog has a tendency to drop PH alot because of the wood chunks in it.
I wont ever use anything other then coco now, watering problems solved.
Here is another response....
Emilya said:
I guess I am lucky. My Ocean Forest, bought from a local farm supply store, is perfect. I use it all the time and transplant into it immediately out of the solo cup stage, where I do use happy frog. Happy Frog was sold in the beginning as a medium most conducive to growing roots, and you are seeing that in your early plants. After that you need a more robust soil, and you don't need the sphagnum moss in your grow because as it breaks down, it goes acidic. I see this often in late flower when people are in this stuff, when the pH of the soil drastically changes, and without flushing out the decomposed moss, it can kill a grow.
Fast forward to around 2:00 mins to see problems with Happy Frog and OF. This is a Soil comparison video by a gardener--(as you can see I've done quite a bit of research on this!)
That is true for peat moss and/or coco based soil mixes. Also true for a typical natural/organic type of soil mix bought at the store or mixed up by the user. If the grower determines what has to be fed and when then no out of control problem.
It happens with soil-less mixes which are those coco coir or peat moss bases mixes all the time. It almost seems like every time there is a soil grower concerned about why the leaves on their plants are turning yellow and brown there is the same question from someone growing in a coco-peat type of mix. It is just that their question or complaint is in another sub-forum.
And how often is the answer the same for either group...switch to flowering nutrient mixes or the plant needs more water or...whatever. The answers are so similar.
Soil or soil-less...neither is the perfect choice for everyone. Each requires some knowledge of the pluses or minuses. And each comes with unique problems.
And a proper natural or organic soil mix does not have pH issues. Less concern regarding the pH of the water going and no need spending time and money checking the water that runs through and fills up the saucer.
If someone does their research and learns from what they have read they can have a great grow using either type of soil mix or even skipping that stuff and just sticking their plant in a basket just touching a tub of fertilized water.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
Not true. Because coco and peat don't come with a huge supply of nutes in the media. So there isn't a transition phase. Salt nutes are fed from the beginning at specific doses determined by the grower.
Peat is the perfect choice for me because it has the least amount of issues and it's the cheapest.
Biological and chemical processes determine what is fed to plants in soil. The grower simply adds water to the soil and lets nature do the work. Then the grower has to determine when to supplement nutes. This can cause problems due to uncertain timing. Another problem is nature has a lot of variables and the bags of soil are not consistent.
Then there must be a lot of un-proper soil mix out there.
- Thread starter
- #36
" Improperly stored" batch of soil
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
@SmokingWings is correct... these commercial potting soils become depleted after a time, and that length of time depends on your pot size and what strain you are growing, and auto or photo. Then you need to start regular feeding of liquid ferts. Fox Farm has their line of liquid ferts, as do other potting soil companies. You have ferts for veg, and ferts for flower. Have a look at my potting soil analysis, link in my signature.
happy growing!
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
@Cheschire , how are your plants doing now?
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Most soil growing problems stem from growing in too small of pots and trying to use a heavy dirt like its coco. Which is constantly adding synthetic nutrients.
IMO if someone wants to use soil then use large pots of at least 20 gallon fabric minimum, use a very well draining Clackamas Coots type mix, keep the soil moist, always have a thick layer of mulch, add a few worms, add some predator mites and rove beetles to take care of the fungus gnats.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae and or use a proper Bokashi to get the soil alive.
Depending on your mix you could probably just use water only all the way to harvest without a single issue.
My current grow I only added a little top dressing a few days before flipping to flower, plus a little Bokashi, watered a couple times with a Fermented Plant Juice of insect frass to trigger the trichomes and thats pretty much it except for I always add a small amount of Yucca extract to the water.
If bottled nutrients are your preference or don't have room for 20+ gallon fabric pots then always better off to just use coco and water/feed daily.
IMO if someone wants to use soil then use large pots of at least 20 gallon fabric minimum, use a very well draining Clackamas Coots type mix, keep the soil moist, always have a thick layer of mulch, add a few worms, add some predator mites and rove beetles to take care of the fungus gnats.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae and or use a proper Bokashi to get the soil alive.
Depending on your mix you could probably just use water only all the way to harvest without a single issue.
My current grow I only added a little top dressing a few days before flipping to flower, plus a little Bokashi, watered a couple times with a Fermented Plant Juice of insect frass to trigger the trichomes and thats pretty much it except for I always add a small amount of Yucca extract to the water.
If bottled nutrients are your preference or don't have room for 20+ gallon fabric pots then always better off to just use coco and water/feed daily.
CharlesBukowksi
Well-Known Member
@SmokingWings is correct... these commercial potting soils become depleted after a time, and that length of time depends on your pot size and what strain you are growing, and auto or photo. Then you need to start regular feeding of liquid ferts. Fox Farm has their line of liquid ferts, as do other potting soil companies. You have ferts for veg, and ferts for flower. Have a look at my potting soil analysis, link in my signature.
happy growing!
I used the Fox Farm Trio for my first two grows and have switched to Dynagrow (Foliage Pro, Bloom, Protekt.)