Small is great if they bulk up well. Look at what Carcass did with a 17" plant!
NorthernCosmos' First Indoor Soil Auto Grow: 2019
- Thread starter NorthernCosmos
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- #922
NorthernCosmos
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17"!? That's a huge monster - Banana Monkey stands 8 inches tall...
That Super Silver Haze harvest of @Carcass' is rather nice, I agree!
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- #923
NorthernCosmos
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Day 90 and CHOP for the CBD 20:1. Here it is in the drying box. It was a tiny plant, smaller than Banana Monkey. The colas are very dense, trichy and smelly, so the quality seems to be good. It's not really trimmed, just pulled off fans and snipped off the yellows. The plan is to dry it for the ca 5-6 days is takes here, then go straight to decarb and coconut oil infusion. There might just be medicine sometime early next week 
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- #924
NorthernCosmos
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I'm close to making some CBD infused coconut oil. I'll draw on some of the experience here to check that I'm on the right track - @InTheShed, is it OK to ask you to do a quick sanity check on this one?
Te goal is to make an oil infusion for my mum, to use as medicine against general pain and a variety of ailments that may be helped by CBD. She wants no high from it, this is CBD only.
The buds are Fastbuds CBD 20:1 auto, specced to 10 - 20 % CBD and 0.3 – 0.85 % THC. I have 40g of this.
The oil is an organic virgin cold pressed coconut oil with neutral taste, one 500ml jar.
The recipes I see generally say 7-10g buds for 250ml oil.
I'll decarb the buds, split to small nuggets, at 121°C (250°F) in the oven for 30 minutes. I may stretch this to 50 minutes if it's right that this will shave off the THC potency - or is the THC so low that I shouldn't bother.
Next I'll pour the decarbed buds into the melted oil in a double boiler at 85°C (185°F) for a couple of hours, stirring occasionally.
Then I'll strain the oil through a cloth into sterile jars, and that should be it - yeah?
If using 10g of buds @ 15% CBD for 250ml oil, the strength works out to 5mg CBD per ml at 0.85% efficiency (I found the 0.85 efficiency number at Shed's here) :
10g * 0.15 / 250ml * 0.85 = 0.005g <= Edit: had wrong scaling there!
Is that a reasonable strength, or should I up the amount of buds?
How much and how often should an elderly woman use for general pain relief, say to stir into a cup of coffee?
Te goal is to make an oil infusion for my mum, to use as medicine against general pain and a variety of ailments that may be helped by CBD. She wants no high from it, this is CBD only.
The buds are Fastbuds CBD 20:1 auto, specced to 10 - 20 % CBD and 0.3 – 0.85 % THC. I have 40g of this.
The oil is an organic virgin cold pressed coconut oil with neutral taste, one 500ml jar.
The recipes I see generally say 7-10g buds for 250ml oil.
I'll decarb the buds, split to small nuggets, at 121°C (250°F) in the oven for 30 minutes. I may stretch this to 50 minutes if it's right that this will shave off the THC potency - or is the THC so low that I shouldn't bother.
Next I'll pour the decarbed buds into the melted oil in a double boiler at 85°C (185°F) for a couple of hours, stirring occasionally.
Then I'll strain the oil through a cloth into sterile jars, and that should be it - yeah?
If using 10g of buds @ 15% CBD for 250ml oil, the strength works out to 5mg CBD per ml at 0.85% efficiency (I found the 0.85 efficiency number at Shed's here) :
10g * 0.15 / 250ml * 0.85 = 0.005g <= Edit: had wrong scaling there!
Is that a reasonable strength, or should I up the amount of buds?
How much and how often should an elderly woman use for general pain relief, say to stir into a cup of coffee?
Glad to help!
That's a 100% difference in possible CBD potency.
Decarb is 110ºC for 60-90 minutes regardless of whether it's THC or CBD. I do 240ºF for 90 minutes but I decarb in a foil pouch, which means it takes longer for the buds to get to temp.
And remember, bud weight is measured post-decarb for calculation purposes.
Melted? EVOO is liquid at room temps.
Ideally, you would stir every 30 minutes and run it at 160ºF for 8 hours, cool it overnight, and do the same on day 2. If you can only do it once that's okay, but run it for 8 hours. After you strain, add 1Tbs liquid sunflower lecithin/cup of oil if you can get your hands on some. Mix it in and leave it in the fridge overnight.
Using 15% CBD (as a rough estimate and ignoring the low THC), this is what I get with 10g of decarbed bud and 250ml oil, at 80% efficiency (because you aren't using a Magical Butter machine):
4.8mg CBD/ml of finished oil.
That could really be anywhere from 3.2mg to 6.4mg in reality given the range from the breeder.
CBD is not known as a pain reliever the way THC is. What it does is lower inflammation in the body with constant use (not like taking ibuprofen which works quickly). I would advice her to take 2 ml 3x a day and see if she notices a difference after a week or two. It will really depend on what kind of pain she's having whether it works well though.
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- #926
NorthernCosmos
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Thank you, Shed!
OK - a little adjustment to decarbing. I'll have to look at that oil again - it's not liquid, none of the types of coconut oil I could get was.
That's a lot more cooking than I thought. Then again, I have read about people cooking for quite a while too. I can do that, no problem - a little lower temp and a longer time. And adding a little oil, ok - I have rapeseed, olive and sesame oil, hopefully some of that is usable.
Oh, and sorry, had a decimal error there, so yes, around 5mg (edited). And yes, that 10 -20 % - depends on the grow I guess, but this thing is so sticky and smelly that I don't think it's weak, so let's call it 15%.
Come to think of it I never knew exactly what the percentage amount of THC and CBD meant. Percentage of what? But I now take it that it's the percentage of the weight of the dried flower(?)
That sounds like a reasonable enough dose to start with. I'll try it myself first of course. If not direct pain relief, the hope is that there might be some some kind of positive net effect.
Maybe there'll be some cookies or something made eventually. I read that the coconut oil is great for baking.
Thanks again! I feel fairly confident now
OK - a little adjustment to decarbing. I'll have to look at that oil again - it's not liquid, none of the types of coconut oil I could get was.
That's a lot more cooking than I thought. Then again, I have read about people cooking for quite a while too. I can do that, no problem - a little lower temp and a longer time. And adding a little oil, ok - I have rapeseed, olive and sesame oil, hopefully some of that is usable.
Oh, and sorry, had a decimal error there, so yes, around 5mg (edited). And yes, that 10 -20 % - depends on the grow I guess, but this thing is so sticky and smelly that I don't think it's weak, so let's call it 15%.
Come to think of it I never knew exactly what the percentage amount of THC and CBD meant. Percentage of what? But I now take it that it's the percentage of the weight of the dried flower(?)
That sounds like a reasonable enough dose to start with. I'll try it myself first of course. If not direct pain relief, the hope is that there might be some some kind of positive net effect.
Maybe there'll be some cookies or something made eventually. I read that the coconut oil is great for baking.
Thanks again! I feel fairly confident now
Sorry NC, I misread your oil as I was looking at all the numbers! Yes, virgin cold pressed coconut oil is solid at room temps. 
Indeed!
There should be if she gets enough of it in her system, over time. And the calming effect generally from CBD too. For immediate pain relief you might want to be closer to 1:1 THC:CBD.
I preferred to use canna-butter for cookies, but if the coconut oil isn't too powerful it's worth a go. Make sure you check out what the substitution ratio is in case they're not a one for one swap.
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- #928
NorthernCosmos
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Another day, another chop! This is Banana Monkey chopped at day 92 since seed in soil. Although it was one of my winter-temp dwarfs, the yield is ok; fas buds, looking at no less than 2oz dried. This is good as I've managed to build up the stash again after almost emptying it.
Here's the tent right now - almost nothing! But I have 3 plants in the stash now, and 1 in medicine production. I also have 2 seeds in water now, another CBD 20:1 auto from Fastbuds and a Zkittly Zi Zi auto from Bulk Seed Bank. I'm building up the grow from a broken triple overlapping schedule - It takes surprisingly long to get it going again. By next month there will be 6 plants in there again.
To the left is an up-potted and LST'ed Jack Hair auto, my first test of up-potting an auto after day 29 from seed. It had a good root ball in the 1.1l pot. Now let's see how it fares in its new 12l home. It's younger sibling at day 23 will be up-potted in a few days. The up-potted JH has some rust spots an yellowing on the lower fans - I have no idea why, with this being a new strain and my first new staged-pot grow:
Other than that, I'm decarbing the CDB 20:1 as I type. I guess, the coocnot oil infusion will start in an hour or so. I've not yet decided how to cook it. I'm trying a crock pot right now, with the same volume of water in it as the oil and buds . It's a very simple model with three fixed temp settings so I don't know if it can stay in the 70°C - 80°C range. If not I'll have to rig a double cooker on the induction stove, but the problem might be the same, too coarse temp control, which leaves me the last option of doing it in the oven. The oven has a pretty precise temperature monitoring and control, but it feels a bit much to run that for 16 hours with a small pot of oil in it...
Here's the tent right now - almost nothing! But I have 3 plants in the stash now, and 1 in medicine production. I also have 2 seeds in water now, another CBD 20:1 auto from Fastbuds and a Zkittly Zi Zi auto from Bulk Seed Bank. I'm building up the grow from a broken triple overlapping schedule - It takes surprisingly long to get it going again. By next month there will be 6 plants in there again.
To the left is an up-potted and LST'ed Jack Hair auto, my first test of up-potting an auto after day 29 from seed. It had a good root ball in the 1.1l pot. Now let's see how it fares in its new 12l home. It's younger sibling at day 23 will be up-potted in a few days. The up-potted JH has some rust spots an yellowing on the lower fans - I have no idea why, with this being a new strain and my first new staged-pot grow:
Other than that, I'm decarbing the CDB 20:1 as I type. I guess, the coocnot oil infusion will start in an hour or so. I've not yet decided how to cook it. I'm trying a crock pot right now, with the same volume of water in it as the oil and buds . It's a very simple model with three fixed temp settings so I don't know if it can stay in the 70°C - 80°C range. If not I'll have to rig a double cooker on the induction stove, but the problem might be the same, too coarse temp control, which leaves me the last option of doing it in the oven. The oven has a pretty precise temperature monitoring and control, but it feels a bit much to run that for 16 hours with a small pot of oil in it...
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- #929
NorthernCosmos
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The decarbing was a bit smelly, with nice citrus'y aromas... 24g buds became 20g, which is exactly the required amount for 500ml coconut oil. And here is the oil cooking - in the crock pot for now. Using a double boiler in there to get enough water volume in the crock pot and a suitable volume for the oil & buds, as well as a stable temperature:
Congrats on the harvest and dare I say almost empty tent! Nice solid collection of buds hanging in there. Great training on the wild Hair too. 
I like your double boiler/crockpot method of cooking down the oil. Longer runs and more of them (with cool down in between) seems like the best method of infusion.
Not sure if your oven is gas or electric, but at my house it would be cheaper for me to do a jar in the gas oven than a bowl in an electric crockpot for the same length of time.
I like your double boiler/crockpot method of cooking down the oil. Longer runs and more of them (with cool down in between) seems like the best method of infusion.
Not sure if your oven is gas or electric, but at my house it would be cheaper for me to do a jar in the gas oven than a bowl in an electric crockpot for the same length of time.
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- #931
NorthernCosmos
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There's no gas here. Anyway the crockpot seems to work OK'ish, but the temp reaches almost 80°C (176°F) which is a bit high, right? It gets switched off for a bit to cool to the recommended 71°C (160°F), then on again. I don't know if this is good.
Got to run and stir the pot a bit
Got to run and stir the pot a bit
I'm sure it will be fine at 80ºC. If that's where it tops out I wouldn't bother tracking temp.
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- #933
NorthernCosmos
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It's starting to get a nice golden colour. There's ca 2.5 hours left of today's cooking.
About the oil to be added at the end, I read that some lecithin is made from sunflower or soy oil. As mentioned I have non of that, only rapeseed, olive and sesame -oil. Lecithin can only be had locally in capsules made from soy, and they're not cheap. Assuming the effect we're after is that of lecithin enhancing bioavailability and/or emulsifying (I've read about both), and if sunfIower oil specifically is the next best thing, I can get that locally.
About the oil to be added at the end, I read that some lecithin is made from sunflower or soy oil. As mentioned I have non of that, only rapeseed, olive and sesame -oil. Lecithin can only be had locally in capsules made from soy, and they're not cheap. Assuming the effect we're after is that of lecithin enhancing bioavailability and/or emulsifying (I've read about both), and if sunfIower oil specifically is the next best thing, I can get that locally.
I'm guessing that sunflower is better than soy because of the phytoestrogens in soybeans, and I can't remember why liquid is better than crystals. I'm sure it's that the powder doesn't provide the same emulsifying effect as the liquid, which is what it's used for.
LSL is pretty cheap here (16 ounces for $13 off Amazon).
LSL is pretty cheap here (16 ounces for $13 off Amazon).
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- #935
NorthernCosmos
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Done!
It's liquid gold!
The crockpot double boiler stabilized at 74°C as measured in the oil, so I reckon that was perfect. It got the full 2 x 8 hours cooking. The result is 460ml product from 500ml coconut oil + 2 tbsp sunflower oil, so the buds may have drunk around 50ml. I couldn't squeeze anymore out of them. I have a feeling that the plant matter and those 50ml could've been used for something...
It's liquid gold!
The crockpot double boiler stabilized at 74°C as measured in the oil, so I reckon that was perfect. It got the full 2 x 8 hours cooking. The result is 460ml product from 500ml coconut oil + 2 tbsp sunflower oil, so the buds may have drunk around 50ml. I couldn't squeeze anymore out of them. I have a feeling that the plant matter and those 50ml could've been used for something...
If you don't mind the grit the have the same cannabinoid content as the oil! Sue use to bake her THC sludge into the canna-brownies. Extra THC and fiber as well.
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- #937
NorthernCosmos
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Ah, yes, I had an inkling that it could be used for baking. The straining and clean up went quickly, and the elation was such that nobody thought to follow up the "waste". Oh well, next time I'm not wasting it!
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- #938
NorthernCosmos
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It's day 36 for Jack Hair (Herer..) #2 and say 28 for Jack Hair #1 (#1 was replanted because the first seed died).
These are my first up-potting experiments with autos. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to go too well. They got up-potted on day 25 for #1 and 24 for #2, when they exceeded the pot diameter, had a good net of roots and drank a watering in one day. They grew nicely in their 1.1l pots, except #2 started getting rust spots and yellowing on the lowers several days before up-potting. There are no new factors with medium, nutes or lighting , so I had expected a lot more growth for building that "jungle" in the tent.
After the up potting they're not improving and the growth seems to be almost halted.
Here's JH #2 at day 36 - note the rust spots and yellowing, and not least the miniature size. Even the previous "bonzais" that got stunted in the winter cold were larger. It also got into pre-flowering around the day I up-potted it. I don't know what to make of it:
Here's the current state of the tent. Two more plants have broken the soil: Back left is Zkittly Zi Zi auto and fron left is the new CBD 20:1. To the right is JH #1 which like #2 has started getting rust spots and yellowing on the lower fans:
So, the up-potting is not a success story so far. I should've done it with a known strain, e.g. the Amnesias that I have grown a few of, since strain was the only new factor. This being my first up-potting I could've done everything wrong, although I have no idea what those "things" might be. I mentioned the timing of the up-potting above (plant diameter larger than pot, good root, drinking a watering in a day), and I was super gentle with the mechanics of the process.
Any thoughts?
These are my first up-potting experiments with autos. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to go too well. They got up-potted on day 25 for #1 and 24 for #2, when they exceeded the pot diameter, had a good net of roots and drank a watering in one day. They grew nicely in their 1.1l pots, except #2 started getting rust spots and yellowing on the lowers several days before up-potting. There are no new factors with medium, nutes or lighting , so I had expected a lot more growth for building that "jungle" in the tent.
After the up potting they're not improving and the growth seems to be almost halted.
Here's JH #2 at day 36 - note the rust spots and yellowing, and not least the miniature size. Even the previous "bonzais" that got stunted in the winter cold were larger. It also got into pre-flowering around the day I up-potted it. I don't know what to make of it:
Here's the current state of the tent. Two more plants have broken the soil: Back left is Zkittly Zi Zi auto and fron left is the new CBD 20:1. To the right is JH #1 which like #2 has started getting rust spots and yellowing on the lower fans:
So, the up-potting is not a success story so far. I should've done it with a known strain, e.g. the Amnesias that I have grown a few of, since strain was the only new factor. This being my first up-potting I could've done everything wrong, although I have no idea what those "things" might be. I mentioned the timing of the up-potting above (plant diameter larger than pot, good root, drinking a watering in a day), and I was super gentle with the mechanics of the process.
Any thoughts?
Assuming you know how to transplant without upsetting the roots, you are just another grower who has shown the truth behind the "plant autos into their final homes" advice.
Someone else did a thread here where they transplanted autos three times to say: "See? No big deal!" That it didn't make a significant difference (but who really knows!) has no bearing on what most of us tell auto growers.
Why take chances on a plant with a mind and clock of its own? Plant autos into their final homes when they sprout and let the roots (and plant) grow without interruption.
/rant!
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- #940
NorthernCosmos
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I don't think I could have upset the roots less than what i did. I used your pot-imprint method for the up-potting and treated the plants with kid gloves all the way. The mechanical disturbance of the roots was close to zero, at most they were subjected to a few grams of pressure from the surrounding soil. The soil of the transplant and the final container was the same, and both had the same moisture at about "half way between waterings".
I've heard about people doing it with success, and even with growth spurts after the transplant. Which is why I tried it, as I could only fit the small pots in my tent at the time. Of course the variable set is large and different for every grow, and with autos in the mix, I'm not too surprised to be surprised.
Well, it's a learning experience. I may try it again some time, IF I find out that I did something wrong AND I find some hard evidence of it being advantageous. Until then I'll keep starting autos in the final container. I'm even pondering whether I should pull those JHs, and get some bigger ones going, but one month in it may be past the point where I save growing time and resources by doing that(?)
I've heard about people doing it with success, and even with growth spurts after the transplant. Which is why I tried it, as I could only fit the small pots in my tent at the time. Of course the variable set is large and different for every grow, and with autos in the mix, I'm not too surprised to be surprised.
Well, it's a learning experience. I may try it again some time, IF I find out that I did something wrong AND I find some hard evidence of it being advantageous. Until then I'll keep starting autos in the final container. I'm even pondering whether I should pull those JHs, and get some bigger ones going, but one month in it may be past the point where I save growing time and resources by doing that(?)