Non-Stop Deficiency Battle - Pics

[fortphoenix]

i flood and drain in rapid rooters/hydroton/1gal buckets. 400w A/C on 24/7, flood every 6 hours, 5.9PH 850ppm, RH 35-60% 72-78 degrees. nirvana ak48 are the bigger plants, sensi Northern Lights are the smaller ones

i made a lot of beginner mistakes when the plants were younger that stunted growth but they're almost 2 months old (AK are about 2 weeks older than NL, NL went in the tray last week) and growth is still very slow and i been battling non-stop deficiency issues (thought i was calcium or nitrogen) I've tried using maxigro in different strengths with and without calmag and with and without r.o water and now I'm trying 5 parts flora micro with 4 parts flora bloom with 1/2 gram/gal epsom, making a perfect 3-1-2 ratio with r.o (121-40-81 with 122 calcium and 27 magnesium to be exact plus and extra like 13ppm from epsom) i know the NL and AK should be in separate trays but i don't have that option right now

the problem is the fan leafs keep dying from the bottom and they're showing spotting. the only fan leaves left on the AKs are the fan leaves at the top 3 nodes, I've also noticed the lower fan leaves are all really dry, especially on the northern lights the leaves are curling and crumbly with brown spots and I've also noticed the petioles are purple but I've seen people say AK48 just does that naturally but the NL have the purple too, also the new growth on the AK has yellow tips and the very newest growth has a brownish/red tint to it which has had me worried for a while

i also topped the all the plants exactly 9 days ago (tried to FIM lol) and i put a lighter next to the node where they were topped so you can see how much (how little) they've grown in the past 9 days (keep in mind i topped them again today so you couldn't see the half inch of growth i took off the nodes i just topped)

 

[Serpent]

Hey Fort hang in there buddy your doing good fighting off the deficiency keep it up the cannabis plant can take a pounding just make sure your PH is spot on all the time that will stop the problem. I seen your toping it will starting growing fine when the plant gets back on track but looks like you have stem rot on one of the plants if anything this is bad deficiency are one thing but stem rot is bad we need to fix that first

 

[fortphoenix]

Hey Fort hang in there buddy your doing good fighting off the deficiency keep it up the cannabis plant can take a pounding just make sure your PH is spot on all the time that will stop the problem. I seen your toping it will starting growing fine when the plant gets back on track but looks like you have stem rot on one of the plants if anything this is bad deficiency are one thing but stem rot is bad we need to fix that first

thanks for the reply! and yes they can sure take a beating lol but yes i just calibrated my ph and ppm and the ph has been at 5.9 the past week with little to no swings but yes the stem worried me so i wanted to get a pic of that (its on the bigger AK) I'm just not sure how to stop or combat stem rot other than keep it dry but that still means my northern lights are suffering deficiencies

 

[Serpent]

i know just the guy that can help fix your stock he's help me in the past ill PM him now

 

[Papageno]

So there is definitely Calcium Def all over. One of those looked like late stage Magnesium Def also. 2 looked like something else but may just be seriously advanced Magnesium.

So I would make sure to be adding some of that back to your solution and if you have been it aint enough. The issue I think is you are trying to keep it at 5.9 and Calcium is absorbed best up closer to 6.4 even in hydro. Often times when people have an issue with Calcium they will raise the res pH and dump in a load of calcium for a day and then dump the res and go back.

This is just one of the side affects of trying to force the res to an unnatural state and not letting it fluctuate around in the good range. In a healthy system it will go up and down and stay stable somewhere between 5.5 and 6.3 and nothing is wrong. You really don't want to add pH adjustment until you are crossing out of the good zone.

A good dose of beneficial bacteria helps to maintain this. Which brings me to my next point.

The Stem base you showed was way too wet. the medium is not drying out between floods. You look like you may have some rot starting there which can be catastrophic and cause pH to be real bad and hard to control. It may be so acidic there that Calcium is having a hard time moving through the cube and up the system.

So I would consider getting a beneficial supplement or making your own (that's what I do). I make my own microbial tea that has everything a plant needs and it fixes any sort of infection or rotting problems in the medium or res.

For more on that see this post. I have an older recipe near the end. if you want to brew it just ask any questions and I can give you details. The warnings about it being strong is something where I have since figured out the dose.

Or you can buy some Orca and that will be some of the stuff.

 

[baxbax]

i lost my 1 m tall plant because stem rot just before flowering i would say for this remove soil from effected area and dont remove the rot effected parts of stem just water around pot and let effected area stay always dry i did what im saying for my plant but it was very damaged by this bacteria it used my hard work as food

 

[Serpent]

Good read Villiageidiot just the man to fix the job

 

[Papageno]

forgot to add the link...

here...lots of good stuff.

Tea Bag your DWC

 

[Dreamofgreen]

i would make a hole with a screwdriver or pencil a couple inches from the trunk and push an airline in 2/3rds of the way to bottom. the roots need o2 so pump it to 'em.
my hunch is you've over feed on calcium and it's locking out K (potassium).

have you done a thorough inspection with at least a 30x 'scope to rule out unwanted critters? different kinds of mites and aphids can cause similar issues. russet mites are especially hard to detect, and to get rid of. i hope that's not part of their problem.
if it is, burn your house down. collect the insurance and rebuild. start over. easy peezy.

 

[fortphoenix]

So there is definitely Calcium Def all over. One of those looked like late stage Magnesium Def also. 2 looked like something else but may just be seriously advanced Magnesium.

So I would make sure to be adding some of that back to your solution and if you have been it aint enough. The issue I think is you are trying to keep it at 5.9 and Calcium is absorbed best up closer to 6.4 even in hydro. Often times when people have an issue with Calcium they will raise the res pH and dump in a load of calcium for a day and then dump the res and go back.

This is just one of the side affects of trying to force the res to an unnatural state and not letting it fluctuate around in the good range. In a healthy system it will go up and down and stay stable somewhere between 5.5 and 6.3 and nothing is wrong. You really don't want to add pH adjustment until you are crossing out of the good zone.

A good dose of beneficial bacteria helps to maintain this. Which brings me to my next point.

The Stem base you showed was way too wet. the medium is not drying out between floods. You look like you may have some rot starting there which can be catastrophic and cause pH to be real bad and hard to control. It may be so acidic there that Calcium is having a hard time moving through the cube and up the system.

So I would consider getting a beneficial supplement or making your own (that's what I do). I make my own microbial tea that has everything a plant needs and it fixes any sort of infection or rotting problems in the medium or res.

For more on that see this post. I have an older recipe near the end. if you want to brew it just ask any questions and I can give you details. The warnings about it being strong is something where I have since figured out the dose.

Or you can buy some Orca and that will be some of the stuff.

i just calibrated my ppm and ph today and they're both on point. my ph is at 5.9 and its been steady the past week, haven't added any PH adjuster and i haven't seen any PH drifts, haven't touched it at all. what are the proper ratios for calcium to say nitrogen or potassium, do you know? because right now i have the same ppm for calcium as i do nitrogen. i was thinking about just doing straight lucas formula and see if that works better than the 3-1-2 ratio but I'm afraid ill get a nitrogen deficiency again like i did using just maxigro and it sucks, you're telling me its a calcium deficiency and the other guy is telling me i over fed on calcium lol

 

[fortphoenix]

i lost my 1 m tall plant because stem rot just before flowering i would say for this remove soil from effected area and dont remove the rot effected parts of stem just water around pot and let effected area stay always dry i did what im saying for my plant but it was very damaged by this bacteria it used my hard work as food

yeah i definitely need to take care of that asap I'm going to lower my flood level and take the hydroton off the top of the rapid rooter and i might even take it out of the tray for a few floods

 

[Serpent]

Burn the house down and call insurance company lol I'll remember that when I find bugs on my next grow. I think the insurance company will think I'm a ️ When I tell them the story

 

[fortphoenix]

i would make a hole with a screwdriver or pencil a couple inches from the trunk and push an airline in 2/3rds of the way to bottom. the roots need o2 so pump it to 'em.
my hunch is you've over feed on calcium and it's locking out K (potassium)

have you done a thorough inspection with at least a 30x 'scope to rule out unwanted critters? different kinds of mites and aphids can cause similar issues. russet mites are especially hard to detect, and to get rid of. i hope that's not part of their problem.
if it is, burn your house down. collect the insurance and rebuild. start over. easy peezy.

are you serious with putting a hole in them? lol never heard of that before but what ratios do you think are ideal for calcium and say nitrogen and phosphorus? i have the same ppm of calcium and nitrogen in my res, I'm thinking of just doing straight up lucas formula but I'm afraid ill have another nitrogen deficiency like the one i got using maxigro but nah i checked for bugs all over.. i got a 60-120x scope plus i got an oscillating fan blowing on the plants every 2 seconds

 

[Serpent]

You didn't overfeed you have deficiencies wide spread it can be fix it will take a little time but not to sweat and don't worry about drilling a hole in the stock that's like some kind of plastic surgery lol that formula you're talking about is pretty good if you just go 1/4 strength then after the plant gets hooked you can bump it up

 

[Papageno]

Calcium and Magnesium are near impossible to over do. They are not very mobile. Nute product like AN pH perfect have a serious over dosing of them because they keep the pH so low.

The bottle will have concentration recommendations for both a normal feed and a heavy feed. Follow the heavy feed and calculate for the total res. Calcium Def don't go away so you wont see those leaves clear up.

Potassium is the other one I was worried about but it may just be super advanced magnesium.


There real deal is whenever you have multiple deficiencies it is a pH problem because you are likely giving a solid fert program with lots of stuff. You claim the pH is dead on which means the medium is bad. It is hard to imagine that it is bad and you can't measure that in the res but it can happen and I guess if it were to happen flood and drain would be the one.


Best of luck! That tea I pointed you at is a fix all...solves world hunger and brings you a bag of potato chips in bed. It has saved many grows on here. I use it every time soil or hydro.

I have converted many people from running sterile to living using that tea to fix there "unsolvable" problems.

 

[fortphoenix]

You didn't overfeed you have deficiencies wide spread it can be fix it will take a little time but not to sweat and don't worry about drilling a hole in the stock that's like some kind of plastic surgery lol that formula you're talking about is pretty good if you just go 1/4 strength then after the plant gets hooked you can bump it up

yeah i was wondering wtf he was talking about with drilling holes lol but you're saying start over with the same formula but only give a 1/4 strength then work my way back up to full strength?

 

[fortphoenix]

Calcium and Magnesium are near impossible to over do. They are not very mobile. Nute product like AN pH perfect have a serious over dosing of them because they keep the pH so low.

The bottle will have concentration recommendations for both a normal feed and a heavy feed. Follow the heavy feed and calculate for the total res. Calcium Def don't go away so you wont see those leaves clear up.

Potassium is the other one I was worried about but it may just be super advanced magnesium.


There real deal is whenever you have multiple deficiencies it is a pH problem because you are likely giving a solid fert program with lots of stuff. You claim the pH is dead on which means the medium is bad. It is hard to imagine that it is bad and you can't measure that in the res but it can happen and I guess if it were to happen flood and drain would be the one.


Best of luck! That tea I pointed you at is a fix all...solves world hunger and brings you a bag of potato chips in bed. It has saved many grows on here. I use it every time soil or hydro.

I have converted many people from running sterile to living using that tea to fix there "unsolvable" problems.

there is no instructions because I only have 2 of 3 parts of the flora series. i just don't know wtf to do and i budgeted all the $ i could spend on the grow so i don't have money to spend on a bunch of products to make a tea. and even if i did it still wouldn't help the fact that something in my formuls or somewhere, isn't working

 

[Serpent]

Yes start over get back into the neutral I use the same fertilizer but with the three part I follow the box even their website has a pretty good feeding schedule check it out. ya you're missing one of the Three formula but you can still do a good grow with two bottles that's fine dont worry and if you have some spare cash kicking around try the Magic tea it's killer

 

[fortphoenix]

Yes start over get back into the neutral I use the same fertilizer but with the three part I follow the box even their website has a pretty good feeding schedule check it out. ya you're missing one of the Three formula but you can still do a good grow with two bottles that's fine dont worry and if you have some spare cash kicking around try the Magic tea it's killer

yeah the whole thing was the extra bottle of grow was gonna be another 60 and i had just wasted money on maxigro/bloom so i wasn't really trying to spend anymore. I'm thinking of just going with lucas formula cause its a proven method and I'm tired of wasting time

 

[Hashassinz]

I feel bad for you but this is the main reason I moved on to coco. Not to go through all that bs from straight hydro. Anyways imo your rapid rooters are killing your plant imo. You say its flood and drain ever 6 hours those rapid rooters hold a lot of water and I am thinking you are just drowing them. Rooters are probably soaked all the time drowing your plant. Holding in all the extra nutes you keep feeding them and causing havoc. I would flush with h202 and water until you get clear water everywhere. Then feed plants with your ph nutes at half the amount you are giving them and flooding table less depending on how soaked that rooter gets. Also make sure you got no bugs first before you go through all that . Hope that works for you. Also I am new so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just saying what I would do eventually up to you how you go about it. I will watch your posts to see if it's fixed if you can say what you did eventually. ty GL