Newbie needing help diagnosing spots on leaves!

They are looking good and pretty close to on schedule. The growth rate is going to increase at this stage so get ready. Remember they will grow 50% bigger in the first 2 weeks of flower. Small spacing between the nodes is the goal and a sign of good lighting.

Then I, and many other growers, want a larger plant to get more at harvest time.

Surely I can fit just one more plant. Just a small one. Maybe make my grow area just a touch bigger. Yea, sure. :laugh: That is the problem with this hobby. It grows!
 
I believe they are doing well enough for me to top them this evening once they wake up from their nap! The 4 plants that will remain in the tent the entire time are different strains (1 Blueberry, 1 Do-So-Do, 1 Chocolate Thai and 1 Sour Diesel) so I am going with a scrog this time. I figure that will be the only way I will be able to maintain an even canopy. I have read so many different things when it comes to topping but I believe the most common thing I have read said to wait until the plant has at least 5-7 nodes and aim to take about 25% of the plants height off.....does this sound right?
 
Interesting comment but pretty much what I have been thinking over the past several years.

If I put together a super-soil with all the special amendments then why do I need to use dry or liquid fertilizers to get the plant through to a decent harvest with most of the leaves still looking healthy. Most likely it is that the pots of soil mix are not large enough. The reason that I am believing is that the plants are demanding more than a 3 or 5 or 7 gallon pot can supply. Especially so once the plant is in a flowering stage.

If I want to grow a plant in a good soil for the benefits that a soil grow provides then the plant has to be kept at a size that matches the pots, that is a smaller size that matches.

Then I, and many other growers, want a larger plant to get more at harvest time. So I end up feeding various nutrients increasing both the size of the plant and the harvest. Ends up a vicious cycle of more nutrients mixed into the soil followed by more during the vegetating and the flowering stage. Round and round we go. Until we start to ask why bother building a super soil if we are going to end up putting the same nutrients in with the water or top dressing the soil.

I use prepared soil but also feed chelated nutrients. Why? My theory is that I can feed immediately available nutrients to the plant but the plants needs change. By the time the plant is telling me it needs something it's already going into slowdown mode as far as growth. Worse would be that it gets stunted. Prepared soil will be there to back up whatever I'm missing and keep the plant concentrated on growth rather than survival.
 
Do you start adding nutes right away when using super soil or do you wait for the nutes to become depleted some first? You also mention in an earlier post that you slowly increase the amounts of nutes until you see signs of nute burn to find out how much nutes your plant can take, then you back off some. Once you start to see signs of nute burn do you flush your plants or just back off the nutes? And once you find out how much nutes the plant can take do you try increasing the nutes again later on once the soil has become more depleted and the plant has become bigger? Sorry for the 100 questions....this post has gotten off-topic but it has given me a lot of good information and a lot to think about and try for future grows, or maybe even this one.
 
Do you start adding nutes right away when using super soil or do you wait for the nutes to become depleted some first?

Depending on if it's seed or clone, I'll give them straight water for the first couple of weeks. With seed I can start feeding a little earlier as it has a tap root to store all the nutrient whereas a clone only has the roots it sprouted. The soil and the sprout should have enough of what the plant needs to stay in growth mode. The plant is young with a young root system so I try not to overwhelm it with the soil biology or flood it with available nutrients. My job is to keep them in growth mode always so providing the correct climate and nutrition program to allow them to thrive is paramount. Mistakes only add to the overall harvest time and decrease dry yield.

I like to use a product from Advanced Nutrients called Voodoo Juice. It is liquid bacteria. No BS additives. Just the bacteria you want in your soil. I use this the first couple of weeks to get the bacterial colony going.

Grow tip - Develop your roots early and the foliage will follow.

You also mention in an earlier post that you slowly increase the amounts of nutes until you see signs of nute burn to find out how much nutes your plant can take, then you back off some. Once you start to see signs of nute burn do you flush your plants or just back off the nutes?

I just back off the nutes. Again, I'm presenting immediately available ions for the plant to take up. As long as you aren't making big jumps in terms of nutrient ratios the plant will regulate what and how much nutrient it needs. The soil biology is working in the background to naturally break down the biomass in the soil into available ions for the roots to take up should the need arise. This is the only real chemical difference between synthetic and organic nutrients. Synthetic nutes are derived through a process called the Haber-Bosch process. Organic relies on your soil biology to break down the nutrients into available form. In an organic grow your plants growth is dictated by the available nutrition in the soil. I'm sure a combination of both are being taken up. In what ratio I can't tell you but I haven't had a deficiency in some time now.

For nutrients, 1/2 strength is about all they can take. I don't really go by measurements per se. I use my PPM pen and measure the salts in the water. 1200 ppm is the max that I can usually give my girls at peak growth.
And once you find out how much nutes the plant can take do you try increasing the nutes again later on once the soil has become more depleted and the plant has become bigger?

Because I'm feeding them immediately available nutrients most of the nutrition that is naturally derived through biomass breakdown probably stays in the soil. I'm sure a portion of it gets taken up through microbial activity. I can't say for certain as what I'm posting are anectdotal findings that I can't back up with scientific proof but, again, using this method I haven't had a deficiency for a long time now so whatever the mechanics that are happening in the soil I'm not going to question until I can find some sort of study that can corroborate or contradict my findings.
Sorry for the 100 questions....this post has gotten off-topic but it has given me a lot of good information and a lot to think about and try for future grows, or maybe even this one.

It's the reason we frequent these sites no? To learn new ways of doing things along with dispelling myths to better our grows?

BTW here's a chart I've used before to keep me aware of timelines and what the plants needs are generally within those timelines. The only thing I don't agree with on the chart is when to start increasing Ca and Mg. I'd start increasing a week before flip.

nutrient needs in stage.jpg


You can also check out a couple of the journals I've posted on the site by clicking on the links in my sig. It'll give you a kind of blow by blow of how I like to setup my grows and the techniques I use to achieve the desired effect. At least that's the plan(t)! :p
 
Synthetic fertilizers kill off beneficial microbes in soil. Microbes expel the O- or HO+ bonded minerals that are chemically identical to synthetic nuts as waste. This waste product is now absorbable by the roots. Just like all living things, living in too much of it's own waste is toxic. So you do not add synthetics until the organics are depleting.

Over feeding can cause a lock out. For example; NitrogenHO in excess lowers PH breaking the H bond. NitrogenO is unstable so it bonds to potasiumOH or CalciumOH forming NKHO2 or NCHO2. Roots can not absorb these compounds. The available nitrogenHO level drops from the reaction but the potassium or calcium is no longer accessible to the roots.
Nutrient-Lockout-Chart-from-Excess-Nutrients.jpg
 
They are looking good and pretty close to on schedule. The growth rate is going to increase at this stage so get ready. Remember they will grow 50% bigger in the first 2 weeks of flower. Small spacing between the nodes is the goal and a sign of good lighting.



Surely I can fit just one more plant. Just a small one. Maybe make my grow area just a touch bigger. Yea, sure. :laugh: That is the problem with this hobby. It grows!
Something I just realized today. I don't believe my lights put out any UV. I have a 4x4 tent and I am using 2 of Vivosun's 200W AeroWing SEs, full spectrum. I have found some UV light bars that are designed as supplemental lighting. I was wondering if I should get them to supplement the lights I already have. I was also wondering if you can call a light a "Full Spectrum" light if it doesn't have any UV output.
 
Synthetic fertilizers kill off beneficial microbes in soil. Microbes expel the O- or HO+ bonded minerals that are chemically identical to synthetic nuts as waste. This waste product is now absorbable by the roots. Just like all living things, living in too much of it's own waste is toxic. So you do not add synthetics until the organics are depleting.

Over feeding can cause a lock out. For example; NitrogenHO in excess lowers PH breaking the H bond. NitrogenO is unstable so it bonds to potasiumOH or CalciumOH forming NKHO2 or NCHO2. Roots can not absorb these compounds. The available nitrogenHO level drops from the reaction but the potassium or calcium is no longer accessible to the roots.
Nutrient-Lockout-Chart-from-Excess-Nutrients.jpg

I tested the nutrient I use in a petrie dish with some agar. The agar continued to grow as normal.

Would you consider this a nutrient that can be used in organic soil?

Your chart looks like the Mulders Chart I have

mulders-chart.jpg
 
I tested the nutrient I use in a petrie dish with some agar. The agar continued to grow as normal.

Would you consider this a nutrient that can be used in organic soil?

Your chart looks like the Mulders Chart I have
Is this how you ran the test? Take a sample of bio active soil and mix with ph neutral distilled water. Treat one container with just soil water as a control dish. Add increasing strength of nutrient to each of the fallowing sample dishes. Agar is a sterile glucose media that will support fungal and microbial colonies. If the nutrients are in there organic form, yes they are safe for beneficial microbes.

If there is little to no increase in growth across the samples the nutrients are organic. They will hit an equilibrium of eating food to promote colony growth and there "toxic" waste depleting the colony. They naturally colonize roots because plants carry this waste away increasing the equilibrium ratio.
If colony growth decreases as the nutrient increases they are synthetic. Synthetic nutes are chemically identical to beneficial bacteria waste. This is available nutrients for the plant but equally toxic to the bacteria.

Mulders is a better, more advanced chart than the one I posted. It shows both companion and contrasting elements. If you have no background in bio chemistry it can be a bit overwhelming. Trying to fallow multiple strings in a ball of yarn when the person is still trying to learn the basic concepts. The one I posted is more like abridged class notes on Mulders fundamental contrasting elements only. I would rather over simplify and have them ask more questions than go too advanced and have them too intimidated to ask questions.
 
Something I just realized today. I don't believe my lights put out any UV. I have a 4x4 tent and I am using 2 of Vivosun's 200W AeroWing SEs, full spectrum. I have found some UV light bars that are designed as supplemental lighting. I was wondering if I should get them to supplement the lights I already have. I was also wondering if you can call a light a "Full Spectrum" light if it doesn't have any UV output.
Go onto vivosun sight and look at your lights model numbers spectrum analysis. If it is a vivosun full spectrum grow light it should have sufficient UV. You can not see UV spectrum with your eyes. Lack of UV causes long nodal spacing, creating tall spindly plants. So your plant will tell you if it needs more UV.
 
Something I just realized today. I don't believe my lights put out any UV. I have a 4x4 tent and I am using 2 of Vivosun's 200W AeroWing SEs, full spectrum. I have found some UV light bars that are designed as supplemental lighting. I was wondering if I should get them to supplement the lights I already have. I was also wondering if you can call a light a "Full Spectrum" light if it doesn't have any UV output.

all white light led carries some UV. same as the old HID. the UV dedicated lights simply throw more and are an excellent way to empty your wallet. it doesn't take a lot of UV to cause damage.
 
it doesn't take a lot of UV to cause damage.
Too much UV light, especially UV-B can cause damage to the plant. And too much UV can cause major damage to skin and eyes for those of us who are not plants and that will really drain our wallets.

I experimented with a UV light and it did not show any signs of being some sort of miracle for plants so I quit before it could drain more than a tiny amount.
 
Too much UV light, especially UV-B can cause damage to the plant. And too much UV can cause major damage to skin and eyes for those of us who are not plants and that will really drain our wallets.

I experimented with a UV light and it did not show any signs of being some sort of miracle for plants so I quit before it could drain more than a tiny amount.
My UV journey ended after some reptile lights didn't do what they were supposed to.
 
I have done a lot of research since I originally asked about UV lights. From what I have read UV in small amounts helps with THC levels and terpenes. AC Infinity has 4 11" UVA light bars with its own controller for under $90. They are 48W. I am going to try running them at 25% for an hour, then off for 3 hours during my 18 hours of lights on to see what happens. If my plants seem to respond well to that I will continue that through the veg stage. When they enter flowering I may try to increase that a little.

I also measured to see the exact distance my lights are to the top of my plants and currently they are 22 inches above their tops. When I put my tent together I zipped tied all my cords to the bars to keep everything up and neat. I did not think about the need to adjust the lights when doing that so now I need to cut the zip ties to get the lights power cord out and then just wrap the light cord around the tent's bars instead of using zip ties so it is easier to adjust the height of the lights in the future. I plan on doing this tonight. Once I do that I can lower the lights closer to my plants and lower the intensity to help compensate for the extra power usage from the UV lights. I will post my findings.
 
I also measured to see the exact distance my lights are to the top of my plants and currently they are 22 inches above their tops. When I put my tent together I zipped tied all my cords to the bars to keep everything up and neat. I did not think about the need to adjust the lights when doing that so now I need to cut the zip ties to get the lights power cord out and then just wrap the light cord around the tent's bars instead of using zip ties so it is easier to adjust the height of the lights in the future. I plan on doing this tonight. Once I do that I can lower the lights closer to my plants and lower the intensity to help compensate for the extra power usage from the UV lights. I will post my findings.
I zip tied the power cords and the carabiner clips to the top bars. I was already planning on changing the distance between the lights and the canopies by lowering the plants themselves.
 
Yeah, the ties were a rookie mistake. Live and learn, right? I just kept wrapping the cord around the support pole until there was only a little slack. I bought cheap lights and the power cord does not make a snug connection to the light fixture. All I have to do is tap the power cord and the lights will flicker so I have to leave a little slack or risk the lights cutting off when they should be on. I have read different reviews on the Photone App but according to it, my lights will not be strong enough for flowering. Again, another lesson learned.....don't buy cheap lights. I got the lights as part of a tent kit so they were already discounted. Then I found a really good discount code, so I only paid $214 for 2 lights. Then the manufacturer gave me a partial refund on the lights for $36 because I felt the advertisement was misleading.
 
Yeah, the ties were a rookie mistake. Live and learn, right? I just kept wrapping the cord around the support pole until there was only a little slack. I bought cheap lights and the power cord does not make a snug connection to the light fixture. All I have to do is tap the power cord and the lights will flicker so I have to leave a little slack or risk the lights cutting off when they should be on. I have read different reviews on the Photone App but according to it, my lights will not be strong enough for flowering. Again, another lesson learned.....don't buy cheap lights. I got the lights as part of a tent kit so they were already discounted. Then I found a really good discount code, so I only paid $214 for 2 lights. Then the manufacturer gave me a partial refund on the lights for $36 because I felt the advertisement was misleading.
Most indoor growers use major brand lighting like HLG, Spider Farmer, Mars Hydro, etc.

I've been using a not so popular brand that many consider chinese made crap(although pretty much all the major lighting brands use the same factories for their lights) for decades now and have zero complaints.

I've used their COB boards all the way back to when they made double chip blurples. I still have one of their blurples that has been chugging along for years now with no issues, burned out diodes, burned out fans, etc.

Depending on what size tent you need to light I would look at them as a candidate if you decide you want to up your lighting game without having to empty your bank account.

I'll be upgrading my 5 x 5 tent with one of their 650w bar lights for $300.

 
You are using two Vivosun's 200W AeroWing SEs lights in a 4x4 tent? 400 wats / 16 square foot is 25 wat/square foot. You have plenty of light to flower. Adding 80 wats would take you to to peak yield performance if you could even out the coverage. 800 to 1500 PPFD is the max range in flower. I do seriously question there PPFD chart with the highest numbers being under the center fan where there are no lights.
 
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