New Grow - Wilma System Never Again

STOP said:
love hps i would!! change to any other light source if!! i could get the same yield in my tent. so that means i'll stick with hps. happydays
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I agree with the HPS, I'm the same. Use a 250 dual spec for veg and a 600 dual spec for flower. Wouldn't change it for the world.

Although there are loads of growers on this site pulling very good yields from LED's
 
>>> Although there are loads of growers on this site pulling very good yields from LED's

But those grows have multiple LED panels and loads of plants.. i bet you that you could out-yield them with a single plant under your single 600w light. Thats efficiency. No need to have 4+ LED panels that actually use more power than a 600w HID just to get the same yield. I've have seen (and experienced) that you need at least double the LED watts to equal half the amount of HID watts. so if you wanted to match a 1000w HPS with LED panels, you would need at least 2000w of LED watts, which in the end will draw the same from the wall as the 1000w HPS... so with LED's costing upwards of 10x more than an HID setup, it seems crazy to give up HID lighting!

at least in my experience that is!
 
Greenthumb J said:
>>> Although there are loads of growers on this site pulling very good yields from LED's

But those grows have multiple LED panels and loads of plants.. i bet you that you could out-yield them with a single plant under your single 600w light. Thats efficiency. No need to have 4+ LED panels that actually use more power than a 600w HID just to get the same yield. I've have seen (and experienced) that you need at least double the LED watts to equal half the amount of HID watts. so if you wanted to match a 1000w HPS with LED panels, you would need at least 2000w of LED watts, which in the end will draw the same from the wall as the 1000w HPS... so with LED's costing upwards of 10x more than an HID setup, it seems crazy to give up HID lighting!

at least in my experience that is!
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I never knew led were so inefficient in terms of lumens per watt. Everyone knows when it comes to HID the 600 watt hps is the best lumen to watt producer. Yet I was always under the impression that led used far less electricity.

Very interesting greenthumb. Why do you think growers use leds? Heat control?
 
to me its like marmite. stick led,s up yer ass. LOL:peace: I'm one for if its not broken why try fix it. i have underwear older than some growers on here so iam very old school. i love my hps and in scotland weather hps do just nice in cool shades regulating temps in my grow space. i would have to change my whole way of growing as in set up. and i know my plant environment like the back of my hand.
when it comes to yield .ive heard the stories and seen the pics .but i do know how to get 40-50 dry oz out of my space in a short time and with no fuss using hps. i like reading led journals and seeing how people grow the beloved herb there way.hats off to them. if it floats your boat then .happydays.i just know what i want when i want . ps i dont always get what i want.but hey THATS LIFE. oh i hear a song coming along.haha
 
i would love to do a grow in my tent and do a truthful and honest test on led my self , i consider myself a top grower that keeps it simple but .the prices are on a dif planet. but hey if i came in to some led,s i would certainly give it a go . iam old school but still like to see things for my self. and would be a fair judge . i am one for changing if it betters what i'm doing. but until some led,s fall in my lap i will continue to produce fat,smelly delicious buds. my way. oh i hear another song. I DID IT MY WAY.lol happydays
 
28 days flower,starting to take shape .
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Mono said:
I never knew led were so inefficient in terms of lumens per watt. Everyone knows when it comes to HID the 600 watt hps is the best lumen to watt producer. Yet I was always under the impression that led used far less electricity.

Very interesting greenthumb. Why do you think growers use leds? Heat control?
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To be honest, they use it cause they think its going to save them in electricity The added bonus that the panels dont add much heat is another excuse they use, i'll get into that further down.

But let me break it all down for you.

Lets say for sake of argument, I am a licensed producer and I sell my product to dispensaries. An ounce of top quality product that I grow, goes for a price of $200/zip

With that information in mind, take into consideration that running a 600w HPS costs on overage around North America, about $35, just to run the light 12 hours a day for a montnh. So theoretically, if you had an 8 week strain, it would cost you $70 in electricity to run your HPS for your flowering period.

Now most people dont realise that you need double the LED watts to match half the HID watts.. so 1200w LED = 600w HPS. So they go and buy a 600w LED panel thinking that its going to produce the same as their 600w HPS, but use half the power. Its no secret that using half the amount of power, will only grow you half the size of plants! So why people think that a light that draws 300w will grow the same amount of buds as a ligh that draws 600w, is beyond me.

This example works even better if you are like me, and grow single plants under a single 600w HPS.

So you flower out your plants under HID's and you average 18zips per plant from your 600w HPS, but after flowering under the LED, you only got 10 zips of dried buds (probably an accurate estimate from one plant under a 600w LED panel with a 2 month veg period).

Well, in theory here, under the LED I have just harvested 8 ounces less, and as a licensed producer, thats lost income for me in the form of $1600!!

lets do a little bit more math. $35/month for your HPS times that by 12, you get $420. So in one year, you pay $420 (average) for your HPS light. well in one harvest, I just lost $1600 in potential income, which would pay for almost 4 years of flowering!!

How LED growers manage to increase their yields, is they stuff as many plants as they possibly can under the one LED and hope that the added tiny wispy plants will increase the yield, when all you do is increase the amount of work you have for yourself in watering, trimming, training etc. They they realise that they still haven't really increased their yields, so they come to the realization that they need more LED watts, so they double what they have, and it costs them a fortune.

Like you said originally, there are some decent grows using LED's But they are using like 2000-5000 LED watts which pulls anywhere from like 1000w to probably close to 3000w from the wall.. sure they are effective at using less power, but at the cost of less yield.

I've found that only when you match the power draw from the wall with LED's, will you match the yields on the scales at the end of the day.

LED's DO produce less heat, but they still produce heat that is not vented or ducted anywhere but right into the growin environment. Which is good because when you grow with LEDs you need to add heat to the grow room. Theres a reason why MH and HPS are so effective. They produce more heat. Heat which the cannabis plant uses to perform its functions more efficiently. When you add too much heat tho, this works counter-effectively. The cannabis uses the heat to transpire. Which basically looks like your leaves sweating when you move them around. you'll wonder where the water came from. thats transpiration. With the heat of MH and HPS, the plants transpire at a faster rate than under LEDs (unless you're adding heat like i said) and thus they take in more water and nutrients, which in turn promote faster growth. Having your environment dialed in is key to maintaining the right temperature/RH% range during each stage of the plants life. With the temps in optimal range, your plants transpire at a rate that promotes the fastest growth possible!

With LEDs producing so much less heat, its easy for a plant to take much longer to grow to maturity because of the fact it doesn't need to intake as much water/nutrients. I noticed this with the one attempt at an LED grow i tried.

But really, if someone wants to get an LED, they are more than welcome to.. But i dont want to be that guy that said i told ya so! :rofl:

Having read this, i hope that you can see past 90% of the excuses that growers go with LED's and see some of the good reasons that there is to LEDs. like if you live somewhere stupidly hot all the time.. no way you'll be able to grow with HID's unless you have an insane AC unit! LED's will be your best bet.. but with how much they cost, and how many panels you would need to match HID lighting, the return of investment is non existent!
 
Greenthumb J said:
To be honest, they use it cause they think its going to save them in electricity The added bonus that the panels dont add much heat is another excuse they use, i'll get into that further down.

But let me break it all down for you.

Lets say for sake of argument, I am a licensed producer and I sell my product to dispensaries. An ounce of top quality product that I grow, goes for a price of $200/zip

With that information in mind, take into consideration that running a 600w HPS costs on overage around North America, about $35, just to run the light 12 hours a day for a montnh. So theoretically, if you had an 8 week strain, it would cost you $70 in electricity to run your HPS for your flowering period.

Now most people dont realise that you need double the LED watts to match half the HID watts.. so 1200w LED = 600w HPS. So they go and buy a 600w LED panel thinking that its going to produce the same as their 600w HPS, but use half the power. Its no secret that using half the amount of power, will only grow you half the size of plants! So why people think that a light that draws 300w will grow the same amount of buds as a ligh that draws 600w, is beyond me.

This example works even better if you are like me, and grow single plants under a single 600w HPS.

So you flower out your plants under HID's and you average 18zips per plant from your 600w HPS, but after flowering under the LED, you only got 10 zips of dried buds (probably an accurate estimate from one plant under a 600w LED panel with a 2 month veg period).

Well, in theory here, under the LED I have just harvested 8 ounces less, and as a licensed producer, thats lost income for me in the form of $1600!!

lets do a little bit more math. $35/month for your HPS times that by 12, you get $420. So in one year, you pay $420 (average) for your HPS light. well in one harvest, I just lost $1600 in potential income, which would pay for almost 4 years of flowering!!

How LED growers manage to increase their yields, is they stuff as many plants as they possibly can under the one LED and hope that the added tiny wispy plants will increase the yield, when all you do is increase the amount of work you have for yourself in watering, trimming, training etc. They they realise that they still haven't really increased their yields, so they come to the realization that they need more LED watts, so they double what they have, and it costs them a fortune.

Like you said originally, there are some decent grows using LED's But they are using like 2000-5000 LED watts which pulls anywhere from like 1000w to probably close to 3000w from the wall.. sure they are effective at using less power, but at the cost of less yield.

I've found that only when you match the power draw from the wall with LED's, will you match the yields on the scales at the end of the day.

LED's DO produce less heat, but they still produce heat that is not vented or ducted anywhere but right into the growin environment. Which is good because when you grow with LEDs you need to add heat to the grow room. Theres a reason why MH and HPS are so effective. They produce more heat. Heat which the cannabis plant uses to perform its functions more efficiently. When you add too much heat tho, this works counter-effectively. The cannabis uses the heat to transpire. Which basically looks like your leaves sweating when you move them around. you'll wonder where the water came from. thats transpiration. With the heat of MH and HPS, the plants transpire at a faster rate than under LEDs (unless you're adding heat like i said) and thus they take in more water and nutrients, which in turn promote faster growth. Having your environment dialed in is key to maintaining the right temperature/RH% range during each stage of the plants life. With the temps in optimal range, your plants transpire at a rate that promotes the fastest growth possible!

With LEDs producing so much less heat, its easy for a plant to take much longer to grow to maturity because of the fact it doesn't need to intake as much water/nutrients. I noticed this with the one attempt at an LED grow i tried.

But really, if someone wants to get an LED, they are more than welcome to.. But i dont want to be that guy that said i told ya so! :rofl:

Having read this, i hope that you can see past 90% of the excuses that growers go with LED's and see some of the good reasons that there is to LEDs. like if you live somewhere stupidly hot all the time.. no way you'll be able to grow with HID's unless you have an insane AC unit! LED's will be your best bet.. but with how much they cost, and how many panels you would need to match HID lighting, the return of investment is non existent!
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well today i went for a drive and went to a pals hoose. we were having a few joints in is nice new pad in the country and he asked me to explain led,s from my point of view. fuck that i thought it will take me hours to explain . so i said ,buddy put up :420:on your fat ass TV screen and go to my grow journal and said read the above quote. happy days. carried on puffing.job done
 
i have been thinking today about if ,and what one could get by puting one plant in my grow room in a 120x100 nft tank and train her to fill as much space as i could and then turn her ,under the 2 x the 600,s i use. could one get 20 dry off the one.? youe would never see the inside of a court if it was just one plant. is it a lot of work and time .was just thinking. something i was thinking of having a try at a friends house ,who is a bit paranoid of having 10 suppose to one in the same grow area .240x120x120. i thought i would throw my thoughts out there and see if any one had any thought of the idea or pros or cons.happydays
 
I can legally grow 6 adults at one time. I have 2 flower spaces currently. 1 of them has 1 plant, the other has 2 plants. I am going to add more flower spaces, but only put a single plant in them at a time going forward. 1 plant in 15 gallons of dirt is growing significantly bigger then 2 plants in 5 gal each in the same equiv space.
 
cheers bud 240x120x120 .fantastic for 2x GT 100 nft tanks. 8 plants .40-50 dry all day long. but i was overseas for a while so when i came back i got given the 8 pot wilma system so thats what iam useing ,FOR the one and only time . AS SOON AS THIS IS DONE. the first thing iam getting is 2 gt 100 nft tanks. oh yes. willma system ok BUT i know i pull more yield off nft. i always run a 240x120x120 i have it fine tuned. happydays

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STOP said:
cheers bud 240x120x120 .fantastic for 2x GT 100 nft tanks. 8 plants .40-50 dry all day long. but i was overseas for a while so when i came back i got given the 8 pot wilma system so thats what iam useing ,FOR the one and only time . AS SOON AS THIS IS DONE. the first thing iam getting is 2 gt 100 nft tanks. oh yes. willma system ok BUT i know i pull more yield off nft. i always run a 240x120x120 i have it fine tuned. happydays

Hydroponic Grow Tent 240x120x200cm: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
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That's twice the size of my tent! I run 1.2x1.2x1.2. Pull around a pound every three months. Would love to have the space for a tent your size.

How long do you veg those girls before flowering?
 
3-4 weeks and a top out. the tent is just 2x the size of yours ,fits nicely in spare room and a single bed .happydays. i used to run the same as you. 120x120x120 just ment i ran with one 600 coolshade instead of 2. thats the only dif.oh aye and just one gt100 as to the two . happydays. i get 20 -25 dry from a 120x120x120.yeaman
 
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