Need help

[Wastei]

Dyna gro is great for orchids.
Has a lot in it not sure how good it will work for pot plants.
If it’s all you have then we will try it and see.
Follow the recommendations carefully.
Probably will work for veg just can’t guarantee anything.


Stay safe
Bill284

Nothing wrong with Dyna Gro but it needs some extra Magnesium since it will run low under LED's. I been growing the longest under HID's with straight Dyna Gro(20+ years), Foliage Pro in containers with Protekt and Foliage Pro and Bloom to lower nitrogen at the end of flower in water cultures and pure hydro.

If I were able to source Dyna Gro were I currently live I would probably still use it. The only thing I added was small amounts gypsum to the containers and Epsom salt to the feed. That's with RO water. They also have their Mag-Pro if you want to fix the Mg issue that way!

OT: I think your main issue is water frequency and technique like other suggested. Elevate your pots off the ground to get better and more even temperature in the roots zone. Its a combination of low temps, feeding frequency and watering techniques.

Cheers and Good Luck!

 

[Bill284]

Nothing wrong with Dyna Gro but it needs some extra Magnesium since it will run low under LED's. I been growing the longest under HID's with straight Dyna Gro(20+ years), Foliage Pro in containers with Protekt and Foliage Pro and Bloom to lower nitrogen at the end of flower in water cultures and pure hydro.

If I were able to source Dyna Gro were I currently live I would probably still use it. The only thing I added was small amounts gypsum to the containers and Epsom salt to the feed. That's with RO water. They also have their Mag-Pro if you want to fix the Mg issue that way!

OT: I think your main issue is water frequency and technique like other suggested. Elevate your pots off the ground to get better and more even temperature in the roots zone. Its a combination of low temps, feeding frequency and watering techniques.

Cheers and Good Luck!

It looked good I just have no experience with the product.
Thanks for the info @Wastel


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[ghostsniper]

Ok small update.. I took my net off so I could lift the pot she needed a drink bad since I been letting her dry out (in case of over water).so I gave it a good drink with a good dose of new food... I'm thinking she's really hungry only time will tell now... I'll let you all know the results in a few days... But still any advice will be helpful. I'm to close to putting her in flower ..

 

[Trump]

@Wastei is spot on with Dyna Gro. A couple of the licensed grow ops I worked at used their base nutes. This was with HPS lighting so the Mag issue wasn't as bad but, yes, they need to be supplemented especially under LED.

The Master Grower did an experiment and ran DG grow base throughout the entire run running the same genetics side by side with the control getting the normal program. The one that grew with just grow base yielded maybe 5 - 10 grams less than the control on the normal grow bloom program. Not much of a difference if you're tent growing but significant if you're production growing. Both were grown in the same soil.

@ghostsniper - Watering practice is probably the most important skill you need to learn when growing cannabis as a newb. Once you've mastered that most of your issues will go away. Nutrition is pretty much set as far as these plants go with only minor differences between cultivars. I would first concentrate on making sure you learn to properly water all the media you have in your pot and allow for proper dryback. Being able to reliably do this will improve the health of your plants and costs you zero. I see so many growers reaching for a bottled solution when they're having issues when adjusting their watering practices will, in a lot of cases, fix the issue.

For newbs, the two things I see that they make the most mistakes on are watering practices and setting up their lights to expose their plants to the correct amount of light exposure needed at the stage of growth that they're at. Improving just those two things alone should greatly improve the health and production of your plants without having to spend money on bottled band aids.

 

[ghostsniper]

I once again want to thank everyone for the info but I have to think I wasn't over watering as I lifted the fabric pot and it was pretty light... But I also took 1 of you advice and found emilya greens post on watering.. and of course I been doing that wrong also. So next water I'll make that change also lol. I'll keep you all posted in the next few days on the changes

 

[Trump]

I am not the author of the following but I found it explained a lot of things that I had questions on before but was never able to get actionable answers to. Hopefully you find something worthwhile that will help you.

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So, as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and, at the point of gravity where these properties cancel each other out, is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So, if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so it's helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and in turn the height of the perched water table.

Medias like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because, as I said, the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered, or your perched water table height is to high, you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So, you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's too tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see so often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though, tap roots grow straight down so we need to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it becomes much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so it's less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and it's not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expel co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs.

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will give my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to overwatering which again is lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recovery is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So, get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gauge watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.

 

[Bill284]

I am not the author of the following but I found it explained a lot of things that I had questions on before but was never able to get actionable answers to. Hopefully you find something worthwhile that will help you.

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So, as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel each other out is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So, if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so it's helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and in turn the height of the perched water table.

Medias like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because, as I said, the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered, or your perched water table height is to high, you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So, you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's too tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see so often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though, tap roots grow straight down so we need to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it becomes much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so it's less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and it's not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expel co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs.

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will give my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symtom many refer to overwatering which againnos lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recover is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So, get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gage watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.

Add to quotes.
As I mentioned earlier.
We are dam lucky my friend.
Thanks.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

I am not the author of the following but I found it explained a lot of things that I had questions on before but was never able to get actionable answers to. Hopefully you find something worthwhile that will help you.

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So, as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and, at the point of gravity where these properties cancel each other out, is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So, if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so it's helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and in turn the height of the perched water table.

Medias like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because, as I said, the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered, or your perched water table height is to high, you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So, you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's too tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see so often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though, tap roots grow straight down so we need to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it becomes much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so it's less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and it's not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expel co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs.

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will give my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to overwatering which again is lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recovery is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So, get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gauge watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.

Thanks for posting that @Trump .

Another very effective alternative to the watering game is growing in SIPs which are a special container built with soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between.

Perfect watering every time since the plant waters itself. Takes all the fun out of learning to water properly since we just pour water down a fill pipe to top off the reservoir every day or two/three.

 

[Trump]

Thanks for posting that @Trump .

Another very effective alternative to the watering game is growing in SIPs which are a special container built with soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between.

Perfect watering every time since the plant waters itself. Takes all the fun out of learning to water properly since we just pour water down a fill pipe to top off the reservoir every day or two/three.

Cheater.....

 

[chinchillin]

Thanks for posting that @Trump .

Another very effective alternative to the watering game is growing in SIPs which are a special container built with soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between.

Perfect watering every time since the plant waters itself. Takes all the fun out of learning to water properly since we just pour water down a fill pipe to top off the reservoir every day or two/three.

Asking here since I don't want to add another thread discussing what's already here.

I want to start growing some cherry tomatoes and strawberries in a 30cm deep 1x2m raised garden bed with perforated pipes down below. Just to clarify... having that reservoir, with an air gap, would mitigate the high perched water shelf problem? Even if in between the pipes there would be smaller lava rocks and vermiculite?

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

So what are the benefits of fabric pots? Just so the roots can receive oxygen from the sides? I wouldn't mind having an "open" cloth layer being stappled in the corresponding gaps between the wall planks and pond mat as a potential experiment. It seems that in such a permanent structure, the cloth degrading or building up moss would be a problem though. My fabric wicking pots ran in to the latter just 1/2 of the season in. Don't know if the former is such a problem?

just to add... it's awesome to be able to find such accessible information here that none of the bigger gardening websites discuss or can explain without AI like written articles.

 

[Trump]

Fabric pots aren't usually made of degradable materials even though the name makes it sound like that.

Fabric pots allow more root access to O², minimize plants getting root bound. Those two factors alone are big, O² being the biggest one, but a root bound plant will also stunt.

If you think about it in regard to growth rates, techniques that allow more access to O² to the roots exhibit faster and more vigorous growth. Soil being the worst, then coco, then aquaculture. Getting more O² access in soil is, IMO, the best way to increase your yields aside from genetics selection.

 

[Wastei]

Fabric pots aren't usually made of degradable materials even though the name makes it sound like that.

Fabric pots allow more root access to O², minimize plants getting root bound. Those two factors alone are big, O² being the biggest one, but a root bound plant will also stunt.

If you think about it in regard to growth rates, techniques that allow more access to O² to the roots exhibit faster and more vigorous growth. Soil being the worst, then coco, then aquaculture. Getting more O² access in soil is, IMO, the best way to increase your yields aside from genetics selection.

The positives with fabric pots are ease of storage and cleaning between runs. Many people even use fabric pots inside of plastic containers for the ease of cleaning between runs and getting better watering possibilities with plastic pots like faster feedings with no overspill along the edges and sides.

Growth rates are identical between fabric pots and normal plastic ones.

 

[chinchillin]

Found this.

fabric vs. plastic pots

 

[Bill284]

Found this.

fabric vs. plastic pots

The article doesn't have a cannabis comparison.
I've used every kind of pot over the years with good results.
No one said plastic is bad or anything it's just minor differences benefit cannabis plants in a cloth pot.
My preference is coco in an aipot / Bill284 Method.
Keeps my roots happy and my girls healthy.
Air pots and cloth bags are great for cannabis so that's what I use.
I must have 50 atleast by now.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[ghostsniper]

A little update.. she turned around quite nicely. Now the question is I should leave these yellow leaves on till closer to harvest correct. As I have ppl telling me I should trim them off.. I have like 4 weeks to go.

 

[bluter]

give the yellow ones a gentle pull. the ones that are spent will come off with little or no effort. leave the rest for the plant to finish consuming.

that one looks like it yellowed fast. hoping it goes all the way to finish. how are the trichomes looking ?

 

[Greengoodness]

Hello bill. Thanks for helping so far and the advice... So great it sounds like the local grow shop sold me some bunk veg food.. what kind do u recommend that I should get for vegging and bloom .. thanks again

It is what i used for years. Works well for vegging MJ. I also use Dyna Grow Bloom. Make sure she's not sitting on the floor and is up on risers. She's a monster and hungry

 

[ghostsniper]

give the yellow ones a gentle pull. the ones that are spent will come off with little or no effort. leave the rest for the plant to finish consuming.

that one looks like it yellowed fast. hoping it goes all the way to finish. how are the trichomes looking ?

Oh those pics was like a week or so apart.. there getting all nice and fat now.. it's covered in trichromes and if your talking about what they look like in a magnifying glass I haven't checked them yet. I would have to wait till lights come back on to do so.. but I'm still a few weeks early for that as hairs are still white. Now if you want to talk about smell.. omg it's amazing lol can't wait to see her in a few more weeks..

 

[SmokingWings]

give the yellow ones a gentle pull. the ones that are spent will come off with little or no effort.

Sometimes it takes no more than a gentle tap and the yellow leaf will fall off but I have to bend over to pick it up so I go with the gentle tug so I have the sucker in my hand with the plant lets go of it.

that one looks like it yellowed fast. hoping it goes all the way to finish.

There is that. Unless the color is being thrown off because of the grow lights. The tent wall in back of the plant in the 2nd photo looks like a strange shade of purple.

 

[Keffka]

The article doesn't have a cannabis comparison.
I've used every kind of pot over the years with good results.
No one said plastic is bad or anything it's just minor differences benefit cannabis plants in a cloth pot.
My preference is coco in an aipot / Bill284 Method.
Keeps my roots happy and my girls healthy.
Air pots and cloth bags are great for cannabis so that's what I use.
I must have 50 atleast by now.


Stay safe
Bill284

So I went down the rabbit hole on containers after reading that article and came to the same conclusions. The writer didn’t cover cannabis growth which its root growth is a blend of the plants he chose. Cannabis roots grow much faster than he accounted for, and they also circle themselves much faster than he accounted for. Fabric pots prevent this thus reducing the likelihood of transplant shock and reducing energy waste by the plant. That fact alone is enough to make fabric containers the superior choice for indoor growers that do transplants.

Anyone who ran a nursery back in the day remembers pulling plants and trees out and having to score the roots or literally physically rip them apart just to get the plants to stretch their roots into the new soil. This is due to using plastic containers. The air pruning of fabric pots prevents plants from circling their roots and instead makes them branch more.

There were a few others arguments I came across as well but being able to reduce transplant shock and keep your roots branching instead of circling were way more than enough of a reason for me.