reducing light levels while fixing problems lowers the stress the plant undergoes.
My seedlings are yellowing once again - Why am I cursed with this?
- Thread starter Acid
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What’s going on big daddy @Acid
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- #123
Acid
Well-Known Member
No good news so far.
All 11 days old now, one seems absolutely healthy for some reason, it somehow keeps a rich green color, but the tips of the lower leaves turn a really weird color, as if they're bleached. They also become crispy, but it doesn't seem like nute burn to me? It just looks off, and is very crispy. Also generally slower growth
Another plant also seems okay, but only partly. Then there's the two in the images, still trying their best to survive, but they haven't grown for around 3 days now. Newer growth is small, limp, lifeless, and newest growth is coming out yellow again. I feed them with tapwater, Bio Grow 2ml/L, currently around 500ml per plant, PH after adding Grow goes to 6.2-6.3PH. It takes around 2 days to become dry on top, but it's only the top quarter of an inch which is dry (about 5-6mm). I also noticed that my substrate is becoming rather hard on top, as if it's a shell. Is this normal? It's dry, but I could almost break it into pieces.
And obviously, you see the first signs of the later stages of my plants, which is leaves dying off with a light brown crispy color on the bottom. Nute burn is usually a darker brown, and more evenly, this is more of a cream colored weird stuff. This is the "end stage" usually, where everything just dies off, which is what I meant when I say "they're dying". This always happens to all my plants later on.
Current temps around 25°C, humidity ranging between 50 and 60%.
Nice work on those Air pots
No good news so far.
All 11 days old now, one seems absolutely healthy for some reason, it somehow keeps a rich green color, but the tips of the lower leaves turn a really weird color, as if they're bleached. They also become crispy, but it doesn't seem like nute burn to me? It just looks off, and is very crispy. Also generally slower growth
Another plant also seems okay, but only partly. Then there's the two in the images, still trying their best to survive, but they haven't grown for around 3 days now. Newer growth is small, limp, lifeless, and newest growth is coming out yellow again. I feed them with tapwater, Bio Grow 2ml/L, currently around 500ml per plant, PH after adding Grow goes to 6.2-6.3PH. It takes around 2 days to become dry on top, but it's only the top quarter of an inch which is dry (about 5-6mm). I also noticed that my substrate is becoming rather hard on top, as if it's a shell. Is this normal? It's dry, but I could almost break it into pieces.
Current temps around 25°C, humidity ranging between 50 and 60%.
Girls look good.
Stay safe
Bill284
A small plant in a large pot will primarily explore the soil and show very little growth above ground, you should see some strong growth in due course, may take 7-10 days
Crisp brown tips - usually attributed to too much light or low humidity [for 25°C 70-80% would be better]
Judging by your nodes being so tightly packed together, maybe your lamp is a little too close
Watering the whole pot [but not soaking to run-off] will up the RH considerably
Some folk mist the surface of the soil between waterings to achieve the same thing without drowning the roots
They don't look too bad - I've grown out worse Acid
Crisp brown tips - usually attributed to too much light or low humidity [for 25°C 70-80% would be better]
Judging by your nodes being so tightly packed together, maybe your lamp is a little too close
Watering the whole pot [but not soaking to run-off] will up the RH considerably
Some folk mist the surface of the soil between waterings to achieve the same thing without drowning the roots
They don't look too bad - I've grown out worse Acid
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- #126
Acid
Well-Known Member
Lamp is actually really far away currently, to lessen the stress as said by someone here, forgot who it was. It's at only 200PPFD / PAR right now, just to lower the intensity and let them relax a bit. I do have a humidifier but I am a little scared of the calcium that builds up, as it's tapwater. I heard this can actually cause some calcium problems, I often have tons of white dust everywhere if I use that thing for a few weeks, but I could be totally wrong.
The growth was real quick from day 0 to day 8, but as soon as this yellowing came back, they stopped showing any form of growth. I also did a small slurry test with some wet substrate further away and distilled water, and it came out at 7.5PH, doesn't that seem a bit high if I'm watering with 6.2-6.3PH? I only grabbed like a spoonful of substrate, so I won't disturb anything
Well awesome then!
Gee64 wrote a blurb on this few months back. When soil crusts over its lack of calcium but not what most of us think… it’s related to soil tilth and best way to improve it is worm castings. If I recall correctly- it can crust up from too much castings or it can crust up from too little castings… which is weird.
Anyway think the suggestion was to break the crust and gently scratch the castings in but being careful not to disturb roots with either step. But also crusting can happen with watering practices as the media becomes compacted… so yeah not exactly sure where you are in all this. But I believe this is why castings are preferred for calcium over dolomite, dolomite slams ph, casting don’t.
I’d say don’t worry about the slurry test, those numbers change as the column of water moves thru the media. But the numbers should be high from dolomite right?
Remind me photos or autos? Think it was autos and yes they will start up slower exploring a larger pot…
Anywho that’s all I got- just checking in on you man!!
Gee64 wrote a blurb on this few months back. When soil crusts over its lack of calcium but not what most of us think… it’s related to soil tilth and best way to improve it is worm castings. If I recall correctly- it can crust up from too much castings or it can crust up from too little castings… which is weird.
Anyway think the suggestion was to break the crust and gently scratch the castings in but being careful not to disturb roots with either step. But also crusting can happen with watering practices as the media becomes compacted… so yeah not exactly sure where you are in all this. But I believe this is why castings are preferred for calcium over dolomite, dolomite slams ph, casting don’t.
I’d say don’t worry about the slurry test, those numbers change as the column of water moves thru the media. But the numbers should be high from dolomite right?
Remind me photos or autos? Think it was autos and yes they will start up slower exploring a larger pot…
Anywho that’s all I got- just checking in on you man!!
- Thread starter
- #128
Acid
Well-Known Member
Biobizz does indeed contain worm humus, I think around 15% humus, 50% peat, and 30% perlite, that's all, besides the pre-mix of nutrients inside of it. That's interesting to know with the crust, I was unsure what exactly it was, but I imagine it isn't bad or something? I imagine it isn't seriously compacted, as I currently use a big syringe to water them, maybe it's just the very top being slightly compacted.
And about the slurry test - Yeah I don't know. 7.5 seems rather high, I took a sample around 2 inches down the pot, mixed it with distilled, and got that PH. Kinda scary number, but I'm not sure if that's of any importance.
My plants are autoflowers, transplanted from solo cups at day 7 or 8 I think, currently at day 12, no growth for 4 days now on all plants, but the leaves are currently all slowly dying with light brown tips and edges everywhere, slowly crisping up the whole plant. As I said, the end-stage of my plant death, as always. My stems are also still as thick as fresh seedlings on 3 out of 4 plants, but very woody and hard. They should be 5 times that size by now, they do not grow one bit, 2 out of 4 are stuck in time once again.
I'll wait how this one turns out for the next 1-2 weeks. I imagine 2 out of 4 plants are already considered dead by now, as all the leaves are slowly dying. The other 2 give some hope though, even though the leaves start dying too.
If all of this turns out for the worst again, I'll switch to a 4 pot autopot system with a reservoir, coco/perlite, an RO system, and straight up chemicals. I'm tired of having to put all my trust into organic life, yet it fools me every time. I need some control back, I think. I'll gladly lose some terps in return for absolute control and.. plants that actually survive. I sadly can't afford any of that right now, even if it's just around 300 bucks, so if these ones die, I'll stop this hobby for a few months and get back into it as soon as I can get this idea going. Let's hope for the best though.
Yes it’s actually bad, the crust does impact conditions because the caked up substrate pretty much stops oxygen flow into the soil and greatly slows the rate of water evaporating out of the soil. End result = slowed growth from reduced oxygen and too much moisture.
Here’s another thing about slow growth. You cannot have plant growth above ground…. until the root mass increases below ground to support a larger plant on top side. Said differently, it’s better for the horse to pull the cart, as opposed to the cart pulling the horse.
As I mentioned… still can’t grow decent auto myself here. Stunted bud sickly every time. But I still kill an auto bean or three every year, figure I keep a few breeders eating groceries but one day I’ll nail an auto. But seriously consider fem photo beans next time
Yes hang in there, it’s an expensive hobby starting out but few successful grows pays for your gear!
Here’s another thing about slow growth. You cannot have plant growth above ground…. until the root mass increases below ground to support a larger plant on top side. Said differently, it’s better for the horse to pull the cart, as opposed to the cart pulling the horse.
As I mentioned… still can’t grow decent auto myself here. Stunted bud sickly every time. But I still kill an auto bean or three every year, figure I keep a few breeders eating groceries but one day I’ll nail an auto. But seriously consider fem photo beans next time
Yes hang in there, it’s an expensive hobby starting out but few successful grows pays for your gear!
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- #130
Acid
Well-Known Member
New update:
My grower friend came over today, we had a BBQ. My brother asked me to get some sauces from our fridge, my grower friend came with me, and we completely forgot to actually get any sauces, and just talked about my plants for a while.
He checked the whole tent, said everything is 100% perfect, as it should be. He then looked at the substrate, and said it's also absolutely perfect - But. Yes, there's a "but". He then took another look at it, while I was touching the soil. He then asked me if that stuff is actually wet or not, because when I touched that substrate, it didn't act "wet", and I said yes, probably even a bit too wet.
He then touched it, and looked at me as if I killed someone. He said it's literally dry, absolutely dry. I'm still confused as to what he meant. That stuff was wet, cold to the touch, I felt moisture. He said that this stuff is completely dry (He uses Biobizz too), and then I just told him these exact words:
"Look, all my shit is dying. Do whatever you want, seriously. Do exactly what you're doing at home, just imagine this is your grow". So he rolled a joint, and went to work, literal robot mode. I probably have around 1L of runoff water in each plant saucer now, everything is moist as hell, and we also noticed some off values that might be worth something.
I have 4 plants, 1 is actually looking rather fine, deep rich greens, just some problems here and there. The runoff PH came out at 6.6PH.
The other one is okay, PH came out as 6.7PH.
The other two which are seriously clinging to life and will probably die soon, had a runoff PH of 6.9-7PH. And we don't know why, as I'm watering with 6.2-6.5PH usually. He said "If I look into your tent, I literally see death. Not deficiencies, but literal death" - And yeah, that's what I think every time too.
I then checked the PH of the nutrient water he used just for the heck of it, because he's literally GUESSING the amount of nutrients, he just gulps that shit in there like it's a cake he's been baking for 20 years, but I imagine that's the experience after having 100+ successful grows in his pocket. This water came out to be at 5.5PH, which seems crazy. But he says that he just doesn't care, he just throws his nutrients in there with whatever he feels is right for the situation, he never checks PH at all.
So yeah, in his opinion, I'm severely underwatering. Problem is that I've been dunking my last attempt, and they never recovered too, so this might still not be a fix for all of this, but at least I learned something new in person. I'm more and more thinking that it's both - Wrong watering attempts, and not giving Grow. He also said that he's adding Grow pretty much from day 1 onwards, because that stuff just "activates and feeds the microbes" in his opinion. And, I mean, it works for him, so I guess it is indeed important.
My grower friend came over today, we had a BBQ. My brother asked me to get some sauces from our fridge, my grower friend came with me, and we completely forgot to actually get any sauces, and just talked about my plants for a while.
He checked the whole tent, said everything is 100% perfect, as it should be. He then looked at the substrate, and said it's also absolutely perfect - But. Yes, there's a "but". He then took another look at it, while I was touching the soil. He then asked me if that stuff is actually wet or not, because when I touched that substrate, it didn't act "wet", and I said yes, probably even a bit too wet.
He then touched it, and looked at me as if I killed someone. He said it's literally dry, absolutely dry. I'm still confused as to what he meant. That stuff was wet, cold to the touch, I felt moisture. He said that this stuff is completely dry (He uses Biobizz too), and then I just told him these exact words:
"Look, all my shit is dying. Do whatever you want, seriously. Do exactly what you're doing at home, just imagine this is your grow". So he rolled a joint, and went to work, literal robot mode. I probably have around 1L of runoff water in each plant saucer now, everything is moist as hell, and we also noticed some off values that might be worth something.
I have 4 plants, 1 is actually looking rather fine, deep rich greens, just some problems here and there. The runoff PH came out at 6.6PH.
The other one is okay, PH came out as 6.7PH.
The other two which are seriously clinging to life and will probably die soon, had a runoff PH of 6.9-7PH. And we don't know why, as I'm watering with 6.2-6.5PH usually. He said "If I look into your tent, I literally see death. Not deficiencies, but literal death" - And yeah, that's what I think every time too.
I then checked the PH of the nutrient water he used just for the heck of it, because he's literally GUESSING the amount of nutrients, he just gulps that shit in there like it's a cake he's been baking for 20 years, but I imagine that's the experience after having 100+ successful grows in his pocket. This water came out to be at 5.5PH, which seems crazy. But he says that he just doesn't care, he just throws his nutrients in there with whatever he feels is right for the situation, he never checks PH at all.
So yeah, in his opinion, I'm severely underwatering. Problem is that I've been dunking my last attempt, and they never recovered too, so this might still not be a fix for all of this, but at least I learned something new in person. I'm more and more thinking that it's both - Wrong watering attempts, and not giving Grow. He also said that he's adding Grow pretty much from day 1 onwards, because that stuff just "activates and feeds the microbes" in his opinion. And, I mean, it works for him, so I guess it is indeed important.
I have rescued many commercially potted flowers where the soil is a mix containing a lot of coco coir and have run into this same sort of issue when checking moisture levels with the finger test method. The texture of the soil mix is what makes it seem like it is wetter than it actually is.
folk have been trying to get him to fertigate proper in the thread for ages. there's no surprises here.
Which is why I have often mentioned that the way to give the best help and advice is if we are there in person to see the plant.
gonna get on a plane lol ?
he's jumping all over the place and not following through on help. hope the local guy gets somewhere with it.
I have been following along since the thread started about 10 weeks ago.
Yep, so the best that can happen is suggestions based on what the person mentions and photos.
he's been getting loads of good help. he doesn't want to follow it. he'll do his own thing. the watering issue has been front and center now in over half a dozen of his threads. there's something like 10 threads open on the same basic issues.
hope you can get him sorted. most of us have moved on.
there is nothing going on that a proper feeding / watering technique couldn't have solved over any of the threads he's posted. he's been coached on it many times. he's been given the link to emilya's watering thread a half dozen times. he's been coached to literally just copy roy's grow in the same substrate and nutes.
he does his own thing no matter what. lead the horse to water.
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- #137
Acid
Well-Known Member
Yeah as of today they absolutely worsened after the watering, yellow growth coming out extremely again
Hey Acid, sorry for more problems… seriously I’d suggest storing your autoflower seeds for later on down the road and moving over to feminized photoperiod beans. This way you can confirm or deny whether funky ruderalis genes are part of the problem or not.
It is quite easy to stunt or stall autos, once stunted or stalled there’s little hope of recovery. Photoperiods have the ability to bounce back from mistakes, not so much with autos…
Yes it’s few more bucks to spend on beans but it beats paying power bills for zero return on your investment.
It is quite easy to stunt or stall autos, once stunted or stalled there’s little hope of recovery. Photoperiods have the ability to bounce back from mistakes, not so much with autos…
Yes it’s few more bucks to spend on beans but it beats paying power bills for zero return on your investment.
At this point maybe the best thing to do pick out four nice looking seeds. Then prepare several small seed beds outside and put one seed in each. Do not water or add any fertilizer. Let the rain and whatever naturally occurring in the soil take care of that part. If the seeds sprout then leave them alone. If they stay healthy then when they are about 6 inches high transplant them into 4 pots using the same soil they were growing in.
In the meantime plant 4 tomato seeds in the soil you are using indoors. Water and fertilize those just like you have been with the Cannabis seeds. If those stay healthy then they can be transplanted to where the outside plants were growing.
This will help to pinpoint where there the problem is.
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- #140
Acid
Well-Known Member
Okay so after the last watering, I can confirm that the yellowing appears because of watering, not because of not watering. I always had a feeling that this was the case, because whenever I watered, they suddenly stopped growing completely. I just didn't think that this was a possibility.
My plants once again haven't grown since being watered by my friend, and trust me, he seriously knows what he's doing, I can 100% confirm that. All that happened was that yellow new growth shot out everywhere as soon as they were watered.
So here's what I can 100% confirm for now, as silly as it might sound:
* Plants grow extremely well from day 1 to day 7-8, sometimes double the size they should be.
* It does not matter if I use the 1/3 or 1/4 watering rule from beginning onwards, or if I use dry substrate / freshly opened slightly moist substrate which is just being watered in larger gulps every 1-2 days
* As soon as I add enough of **my** water, they stop growing completely.
* It does not matter if they dry out fully, or are being kept moist all the time
* Every time I water them again, they instantly get shocked and yellow growth shoots out everywhere
* Plants completely stop drinking at all, substrate suddenly stays moist way longer than before
* Growth comes to a stop
* My plants outside the tent went back to growing normally, they are 100% healthy now.
These things are all 100% confirmed now, I let the experienced Biobizz grower take a look & let him water, he usually pulls 10+ plants through one grow, not one dying. But even if he waters mine, they suddenly stop their growth as soon as this happens.
So, my people, this grow is slowly coming to an end again, these plants haven't moved for 7+ days now, one is still in the middle of being fine and dying, but it too got yellow growth now after he watered it. The other one is also getting it now, and the last 2 haven't moved for over a week now.
And with this, I am finished with all of this for now. There seriously just is no solution to this, it all makes no sense. I tried every way, considering that this isn't my first failure, it's probably my 17th or 18th failure in a row.
My next step is to get rid of all of this bio stuff. I'm done with it, even though you guys tried your best to help me out in every way possible. These plants now got the Grow nutrient in every watering attempt, but with every watering, they instantly turn worse and worse. I will now save up for a 4 pot autopot system, but its gonna take a while, even if its just around 140€ or so. I'll go coco perlite then, with no room for error, as I can adjust literally everything, also with RO water.
__________________________________________
Here is an update from outside the tent, plants on my windowsill. These plants haven't grown for over 15 days back in my tent, not one inch in growth. Picture of them exist here too, somewhere. Note: I absolutely don't follow any rules with these ones. They have been watered once so far in the past 2 weeks. No Grow, nothing.
Here they are now, around 14 days outside of the tent with bad temperatures and cloudy skies & around 15 hours of mediocre light each day. They look stupid, but they're healthy. That's all I wanted:
I am absolutely confused, but it is what it is. My tent kills plants.
My plants once again haven't grown since being watered by my friend, and trust me, he seriously knows what he's doing, I can 100% confirm that. All that happened was that yellow new growth shot out everywhere as soon as they were watered.
So here's what I can 100% confirm for now, as silly as it might sound:
* Plants grow extremely well from day 1 to day 7-8, sometimes double the size they should be.
* It does not matter if I use the 1/3 or 1/4 watering rule from beginning onwards, or if I use dry substrate / freshly opened slightly moist substrate which is just being watered in larger gulps every 1-2 days
* As soon as I add enough of **my** water, they stop growing completely.
* It does not matter if they dry out fully, or are being kept moist all the time
* Every time I water them again, they instantly get shocked and yellow growth shoots out everywhere
* Plants completely stop drinking at all, substrate suddenly stays moist way longer than before
* Growth comes to a stop
* My plants outside the tent went back to growing normally, they are 100% healthy now.
These things are all 100% confirmed now, I let the experienced Biobizz grower take a look & let him water, he usually pulls 10+ plants through one grow, not one dying. But even if he waters mine, they suddenly stop their growth as soon as this happens.
So, my people, this grow is slowly coming to an end again, these plants haven't moved for 7+ days now, one is still in the middle of being fine and dying, but it too got yellow growth now after he watered it. The other one is also getting it now, and the last 2 haven't moved for over a week now.
And with this, I am finished with all of this for now. There seriously just is no solution to this, it all makes no sense. I tried every way, considering that this isn't my first failure, it's probably my 17th or 18th failure in a row.
My next step is to get rid of all of this bio stuff. I'm done with it, even though you guys tried your best to help me out in every way possible. These plants now got the Grow nutrient in every watering attempt, but with every watering, they instantly turn worse and worse. I will now save up for a 4 pot autopot system, but its gonna take a while, even if its just around 140€ or so. I'll go coco perlite then, with no room for error, as I can adjust literally everything, also with RO water.
__________________________________________
Here is an update from outside the tent, plants on my windowsill. These plants haven't grown for over 15 days back in my tent, not one inch in growth. Picture of them exist here too, somewhere. Note: I absolutely don't follow any rules with these ones. They have been watered once so far in the past 2 weeks. No Grow, nothing.
Here they are now, around 14 days outside of the tent with bad temperatures and cloudy skies & around 15 hours of mediocre light each day. They look stupid, but they're healthy. That's all I wanted:
I am absolutely confused, but it is what it is. My tent kills plants.