My seedlings are yellowing once again - Why am I cursed with this?

[bluter]

found a product sheet for the media and a feeding schedule for the related nutes and downloaded them both.

there's a few things i see right away :

i hate the media.
biobizz won't inform you what it is made of or what the nutes in it are supposed to be other than to claim it's "organic" - yeah, right. the lack of information means it's impossible to determine if you treat it as a soil or as a coco grow. also means the grower can't control ph. right away that's a red flag.

if anyone is running this biobizz light junk let us know what is it and whether you treat it as coco or soil type. i see recommendations to both ph as a soil and not to ph at all from the mfgr, not helpful. my best guess is treat it as a soil.

i don't know that the nute schedule is being followed correct. i don't think the hand off to full bottle nutes is being caught in time or adjusted for.

there's up to 11 things that biobizz calls for in the nute mix. that's a bit much. the bare minimum to run a grow would be 5.
3 basics
bio-grow
bio-bloom
top max

that corresponds to most other 3-part systems. they claim you only need the bio-grow in veg but clearly supplement it in the feeding schedule with a fish-mix. this leads me to question whether the bio grow is sufficient on its own in veg.

my best guess is they have assumed you'll either use the fish-mix or move from the veg side to the flower side of the schedule at the hand off to full bottle nutes.

on the flower side of the schedule you mix all three nutes in the same feed mix every single time to feed your plants. i'm not sure that's happening. they do look to be starving again. make sure you are following the feed schedule and using all the nutes each time.

the other two minimum things needed are
calmag
ph up / down

calmag gets added every time you feed. both veg and flower.
proper ph needs to happen every time you feed. both veg and flower. use a real ph product. get rid of that stupid epsom salt crap, it won't help you, it's only a fix in an emergency. don't depend on it.

get back to the basics, use the full feed schedule, get the feeding frequency under control, and you'll be fine. it shouldn't be hard to turn this around.

 

[Bill284]

Read this few weeks back but couldn’t find it in time last nite. Anyways totally related so without further ado - please see post #3588 over at Gee spot- here’s link Post from G spot journal

I have my floor set at 18c 24/7.
Never get issues with cold roots that way.
Chilly roots don’t like to eat properly.
Thanks @013
I didn’t realize it effects the ph aswell.



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[bluter]

I have my floor set at 18c 24/7.
Never get issues with cold roots that way.
Chilly roots don’t like to eat properly.
Thanks @013
I didn’t realize it effects the ph aswell.

his room runs at 21c which is sufficient. 24c would be a bit better but i've grown at 18 - 20c with no issues. has to be off the floor though.

edit : kinda wish he could try a sips or even a hempy as it might work better for him. megacrop would go a long way to cutting out all the hoops getting a nute to work too. europe is frustrating lol.

 

[Acid]

found a product sheet for the media and a feeding schedule for the related nutes and downloaded them both.

there's a few things i see right away :

i hate the media.
biobizz won't inform you what it is made of or what the nutes in it are supposed to be other than to claim it's "organic" - yeah, right. the lack of information means it's impossible to determine if you treat it as a soil or as a coco grow. also means the grower can't control ph. right away that's a red flag.

if anyone is running this biobizz light junk let us know what is it and whether you treat it as coco or soil type. i see recommendations to both ph as a soil and not to ph at all from the mfgr, not helpful. my best guess is treat it as a soil.

i don't know that the nute schedule is being followed correct. i don't think the hand off to full bottle nutes is being caught in time or adjusted for.

there's up to 11 things that biobizz calls for in the nute mix. that's a bit much. the bare minimum to run a grow would be 5.
3 basics
bio-grow
bio-bloom
top max

that corresponds to most other 3-part systems. they claim you only need the bio-grow in veg but clearly supplement it in the feeding schedule with a fish-mix. this leads me to question whether the bio grow is sufficient on its own in veg.

my best guess is they have assumed you'll either use the fish-mix or move from the veg side to the flower side of the schedule at the hand off to full bottle nutes.

on the flower side of the schedule you mix all three nutes in the same feed mix every single time to feed your plants. i'm not sure that's happening. they do look to be starving again. make sure you are following the feed schedule and using all the nutes each time.

the other two minimum things needed are
calmag
ph up / down

calmag gets added every time you feed. both veg and flower.
proper ph needs to happen every time you feed. both veg and flower. use a real ph product. get rid of that stupid epsom salt crap, it won't help you, it's only a fix in an emergency. don't depend on it.

get back to the basics, use the full feed schedule, get the feeding frequency under control, and you'll be fine. it shouldn't be hard to turn this around.

I did a little something, maybe this will tell you more. Used a translator because it's German, and it's annoying as hell to translate each and everything, so here's the Google version (It's accutare, I read through it to make sure):

(Little addition: Wine is NOT wine! 0.00021% (B) is Boron)

Maybe this helps?

About nutrients - Fish Mix is recommended in veg, grow and bloom are recommended in flower, but grow CAN be used in veg no problem, it's just not perfect. Why? No idea, but everyone who uses this trio, also recommends fish mix in veg. Top Max is more of an additive, and almost no one recommends it, as it causes a sugary smell / taste in the end product for many people, and usually doesn't do really anything at all. It's similar to Advanced Nutrients Bud Candy.

I do own real PH products, one from GHE as PH down, and citric acid from biobizz as PH down, also Biobizz PH Up with humic acid. I rarely use them though, as the nutrients themselves (especially fish mix) lower my PH more than enough. My tapwater PH is at 7.9-8, and after adding nutrients, I'm at around 6.3-6.5PH. The epsom salts are just for a little magnesium and sulfur boost, as I said - Just a trial attempt in this case, as everything here looks like a severe sulfur deficiency. I did try with straight up tapwater with 7.9PH, I tried PH correcting, I tried.. everything. As I said, this isn't my first grow. This is my 15th grow or something around that number. And each grow usually contains 2-4 plants. All with a different attempt. From "just water, substrate, and light", to anything you can imagine.

Light Mix isn't the only substrate I have tried, I also tried All Mix, which has enough nutrients for 4-6 weeks, and they still had the same symptoms at around 10-15 days of age. You usually don't have to feed autoflowers in this stuff until you're in pre-flower, as confirmed by thousands of growers who use this stuff here in Germany. But they don't know what's wrong with my grows, too. Many said I water incorrectly, but my solo cup plants had the same symptoms at the same age as the plants in big pots.

Edit: I've long had my eyes on Megacrop. I am only able to find it on ebay, but they do want.. $150 for shipping on the 3lb bag. This stuff seems to be so simple, even with a calculator and everything, just one stupid powder and done. This feels like pure luxury, but I cannot afford $150 shipping for $20 worth of product. That's just insane.

 

[bluter]

I did a little something, maybe this will tell you more. Used a translator because it's German, and it's annoying as hell to translate each and everything, so here's the Google version (It's accutare, I read through it to make sure):



Maybe this helps?

not really. it parrots the same non information available on their website and downloaded product sheet. mildly interesting but essentially useless info.

About nutrients - Fish Mix is recommended in veg, grow and bloom are recommended in flower, but grow CAN be used in veg no problem, it's just not perfect.

bio-grow is the main nute used in veg. if you aren't using it your plants will look like they do. the fish mix is the optional supplement. bio-grow is crucial.

check the basic nute pack they sell, fish mix is not included. bio-grow is the only veg nute.

Why? No idea, but everyone who uses this trio, also recommends fish mix in veg.

no kidding. the shitty basic nute program on it's own won't cut it.

Top Max is more of an additive, and almost no one recommends it, as it causes a sugary smell / taste in the end product for many people, and usually doesn't do really anything at all. It's similar to Advanced Nutrients Bud Candy.

follow their nute schedule. it's central to the flower side. if you aren't using it your plants won't make it. it's part of the core 3 nutes.

if you wanna go off res and make up your own schedule we wish you luck.

I do own real PH products, one from GHE as PH down, and citric acid from biobizz as PH down, also Biobizz PH Up with humic acid. I rarely use them though, as the nutrients themselves (especially fish mix) lower my PH more than enough. My tapwater PH is at 7.9-8, and after adding nutrients, I'm at around 6.3-6.5PH.

that'll work as far as ph. i'd ph to a strict 6.3 for a while until things turn around.

The epsom salts are just for a little magnesium and sulfur boost, as I said - Just a trial attempt in this case, as everything here looks like a severe sulfur deficiency.

drop the epsom salts entirely it's not helping you. stick to the proven printed feed schedule before going off experimenting.

I did try with straight up tapwater with 7.9PH, I tried PH correcting, I tried.. everything. As I said, this isn't my first grow.

your tap water may be an issue. i run RO water, bad water can really toss things off. at the very least you should look at a municipal water report to determine what is in the water and what your starting ppm / ec is.

RO water is a nice clean blank slate to start from but is not always necessary or cost effective. some water supplies will not support growing very well without it though. you will have to determine that on your own.

This is my 15th grow or something around that number. And each grow usually contains 2-4 plants. All with a different attempt. From "just water, substrate, and light", to anything you can imagine.

Light Mix isn't the only substrate I have tried, I also tried All Mix, which has enough nutrients for 4-6 weeks, and they still had the same symptoms at around 10-15 days of age. You usually don't have to feed autoflowers in this stuff until you're in pre-flower, as confirmed by thousands of growers who use this stuff here in Germany. But they don't know what's wrong with my grows, too. Many said I water incorrectly, but my solo cup plants had the same symptoms at the same age as the plants in big pots.

it does look like you have issues timing the hand off to full bottle nutes, the proper nute levels, and possibly feeding frequency.

 

[bluter]

Edit: I've long had my eyes on Megacrop. I am only able to find it on ebay, but they do want.. $150 for shipping on the 3lb bag.

get the 9 kilo if you go that way. i've been running the same bag for 5+ years. easily the most cost effective nute i've ever used even with shipping.

its not the best nute i've ever used but i can't see switching unless i get sponsored to use another.

This stuff seems to be so simple, even with a calculator and everything, just one stupid powder and done. This feels like pure luxury, but I cannot afford $150 shipping for $20 worth of product. That's just insane.

worth every penny if you get the big bag, but not a great option for europe. europe makes everything harder.


edit : the nutes you have will work fine if used correct. i've used dozens of nute systems over the last 3 decades. most will work good once you get the grow sorted.

 

[Acid]

not really. it parrots the same non information available on their website and downloaded product sheet. mildly interesting but essentially useless info.




bio-grow is the main nute used in veg. if you aren't using it your plants will look like they do. the fish mix is the optional supplement. bio-grow is crucial.

check the basic nute pack they sell, fish mix is not included. bio-grow is the only veg nute.






no kidding. the shitty basic nute program on it's own won't cut it.





follow their nute schedule. it's central to the flower side. if you aren't using it your plants won't make it. it's part of the core 3 nutes.

if you wanna go off res and make up your own schedule we wish you luck.






that'll work as far as ph. i'd ph to a strict 6.3 for a while until things turn around.





drop the epsom salts entirely it's not helping you. stick to the proven printed feed schedule before going off experimenting.





your tap water may be an issue. i run RO water, bad water can really toss things off. at the very least you should look at a municipal water report to determine what is in the water and what your starting ppm / ec is.

RO water is a nice clean blank sale to start from but is not always necessary or cost effective. some water supplies will not support growing very well without it though. you will have to determine that on your own.






it does look like you have issues timing the hand off to full bottle nutes, the proper nute levels, and possibly feeding frequency.

It's all here already. I also ordered a private test already, even though it was expensive to say the least. But better than wasting another batch of seeds.

It depends on which trio you're talking about. You have indoor, and outdoor. One has fish mix, the other has grow as main nutrient. The official nutrient schedule also recommends to change out grow with fish mix for veg. I used bio grow in my first grows, and later on changed to fish mix as a different approach. I also tried half the recommended dosages, the full dosage, double the dosage, in several different grow attempts.

Official schedule:

I promise you, Top Max is not needed. I know because I wasted 2 bottles of it. I had the full range already. Top Max is a flower booster, something I don't even reach in 99% of my grows. Remember, my plants already start having these problems as early as 5 days from seed in rare cases. There's nothing wrong with how I use nutrients, as nobody uses nutrients 5 days into a grow, unless **maybe** in coco or hydro, with completely inert substrates or water. That's the whole point of this. I cannot throw nutrients onto plants that are 2 inches tall, in a substrate that's pre-fertilized for up to 6 weeks, and hope it fixes everything, because I already tried that too. I'm not coming here because I suddenly have this symptom, I came here because I had this symptom for 1 year now, and I tried everything that I can think of already.

I know you're just trying to help and I'm very thankful for it, especially because this grow line is a complete stranger to you, but you're recommending things that are for mid veg, mid flower, late flower. I do not reach those moments. My plants stunt 100% way before all of this is even a possibility. You recommend keeping a strict feeding schedule - I have done that for several months, and not one plant survived all of this. My first few months consisted of learning how to water correctly, because I thought that's what I'm doing incorrectly. Many people always tell me to just go back to the basics, but that's literally how I started, and where I ended up again, with the same exact problems. I went from caveman-grow to babying my plants, back to caveman, and nothing has helped in one full year. Imagine all your plants dying over and over again, from the same exact problem. And all the advice you hear is "you're using nutrients incorrectly" or "you're watering incorrectly". I literally made trial grows with solo cups, everything, just to absolutely avoid these problems & learn from it. And like a ticking time bomb, all the plants in the solo cups and big pots started having the same problems at the same exact time.

If there's some way to explain it, I'll try to explain it like this - Imagine you're a doctor, and you have that one patient you want to be healthy and grow old, but he keeps having the same exact illness. You do the simple stuff for months and months, but he always comes back with the same illness. Just the basics, you water him, you give him some light, and keep a strict schedule to what's recommended for this exact patient. But he comes back every time, with the same exact symptom & complains about it. "I can't grow, my newest fingers are all growing out bright yellow, I can't uptake anything anymore. Give me too much food, give me too little food, I don't care, I just don't feel hungry anymore". Do you keep doing the same stuff over and over again? Or do you maybe try some new treatment options? Maybe you'll start giving him some epsom salts in your next attempt, maybe you'll add calmag, you start looking at his bloodwork, and start giving a specialized calmag and epsom salt ratio to him, because his ratios are way off. But nothing helps. You try different watering methods for him, you dunk him in one attempt, you do the "circle watering" method in the other. In one attempt you do the wet/dry method, you always water the full substrate until it's almost dry again, in another attempt you always try to keep him wet all the time. I did try all of that.

I know not everyone can follow this thread all the time, but I feel like most people are focusing on this exact moment where I post another attempt and criticize me for what I'm doing because "I'm doing way too much!", rather than the whole story where I did the basics already, which I always mention. I say I'm using epsom salts now, people are like "Don't do that, that's because everything dies" - No, everything died 11 months before I even used it, which is why I used it now. I say I didn't use nutrients this time, people are like "stick to the feeding schedule, that's why they're dying" - I did that, for months and months, because I thought I'm just watering incorrectly. It's as if I'm in some weird loop where people just focus on the "now", rather than the "what has already been tried".

I'm very thankful for every advice here, because time is worth more than anything else, and you guys spend your time trying to help me. But I cannot follow advice that I have long tried out, as it killed everything. That's why I'm here, so people can actually look into what's exactly happening to my plants, as it's always the same thing, over and over again. My plants do not have this and that, they have one thing - Yellow new growth. Always. Bright yellow. They then stop growing at all, and come into a stasis. They then slowly die off over days, weeks, not growing even 1 inch anymore in 1 week, 2 weeks, and so on. Leaves turn brown everywhere in the later progress, become mushy, limp, even though I watered. I am not kidding, I let one dying plant fully dry out until it should have died, yet it still stood straight, with leaves pointing up. It took 5 more days until it suddenly collapsed and died off. This is just surreal to me.

 

[bluter]

your ec looks good for the water.


this is your feed schedule as recommended by the mfgr for your media.

their basic grow try pack consists of the bio-grow, bio-bloom, and top max. which is what i'd go with if trying their products. they do recommend subbing in the fish mix in veg, which is a fault if not included in the basic pack.

otherwise i'd follow their schedule using the core. if the top max is just a sweetener then it's a basic 2-part system run on just the grow / bloom, maybe subbing the fix mix in veg. top max in flower at your discretion.

it's pretty clear they are depending on the media mix nutes to get the plants to mid veg or later with little else, at which point the grower has to recognize when to jump in with the bottle feeding schedule.

 

[Acid]

Dumb question - What if I just part my ways with all those nutrients, and get megacrop? Would this work with my substrate? I feel like I have way too many variables with all those bottles. Can I just use the 1 part Megacrop with Biobizz substrate? I imagine I could start using it after around 3-4 weeks, as soon as the substrate itself is depleted

I can apparently order Megacrop from the US, and it'll only take around 6-10 days, doesn't matter as they will have enough food for around 4 weeks. The shipping is rather hefty at around $35, so around $56 altogether, but that's how much I usually pay for 2-3 bottles of my nutrients. Dumb idea? Or would I make everything easier with this? I can't seem to get enough info about this stuff, I don't know if I have to use RO water or anything, or if my tapwater is fine to use with this stuff.

Before I order a 3lb bag, I wanna ask you guys if this is a dumb decision, or actually a good way to simplify everything

 

[Sunasun]

Red, red wine. That's probably correct, and killing his plants.

Mine have looked like this when my roots were too cold. But I imagine red wine is terrible for the plant.

 

[Bill284]

Dumb question - What if I just part my ways with all those nutrients, and get megacrop? Would this work with my substrate? I feel like I have way too many variables with all those bottles. Can I just use the 1 part Megacrop with Biobizz substrate? I imagine I could start using it after around 3-4 weeks, as soon as the substrate itself is depleted

I can apparently order Megacrop from the US, and it'll only take around 6-10 days, doesn't matter as they will have enough food for around 4 weeks. The shipping is rather hefty at around $35, so around $56 altogether, but that's how much I usually pay for 2-3 bottles of my nutrients. Dumb idea? Or would I make everything easier with this? I can't seem to get enough info about this stuff, I don't know if I have to use RO water or anything, or if my tapwater is fine to use with this stuff.

Before I order a 3lb bag, I wanna ask you guys if this is a dumb decision, or actually a good way to simplify everything

It's great and simple.
I ran the greenhouse all summer on it.
25 plants in coco fed every day.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[bluter]

Can I just use the 1 part Megacrop with Biobizz substrate?

you can use it with most anything.

I imagine I could start using it after around 3-4 weeks, as soon as the substrate itself is depleted

that's about when you are hitting the issues now. mega crop will work but the nute systems you have should work as well as long as you've got the basic nutes and follow the feed schedule.

Before I order a 3lb bag, I wanna ask you guys if this is a dumb decision, or actually a good way to simplify everything

hate to see you spend money on other nutes when yours should work if you have the full set of the basic nutes.

 

[Roy Growin]

Just read through this thread again in its entirety...

You are layering different soils with hot stuff at the bottom - the young tap root will get down there pretty quickly and burn - easier to use progressively larger pots of one soil rather than a layered blend
I don't know why you are adding Epsom Salts - next time you take a bath, chuck it in the water and stick to CaMg, which you should need very little if any of with Bio
You should feed 1ml/L Gro while seedlings establish enough roots to get its nutes from the soil
A rough rule of thumb is increase by 1ml/L every 7-10 days up to 4ml/L, and stay there through veg
When you are ready to flower, start to switch to 3ml Gro 1ml Bloom, when you see flowering begin, 2ml/l Gro 2ml/L Bloom, then 1ml Gro 3ml Bloom
About halfway through flower go for it with 4-5ml/L Bloom [and TopMax if you want]

For reference, the above approach was applied to the grow below:

Dutch Kush, LSD, Strawberry Gum Grow Diary

Dutch Kush & Acid - can't remember what the freebies were Bio with babies, class A's for buds is working for me Two are leggy and will require surgery, wish I knew what the bushy one was Any guesses invited

www.420magazine.com

Hope that helps

 

[bluter]

thanks roy.
read through the thread link and follow @Roy Growin 's advice. you really won't find a better resource using those nutes. roy's grows center on the basics and are uncomplicated.

easiest thing would be simply copy what he has done in his reply and the linked thread. it will save you having to spend on different nutes and media.

 

[Acid]

Just read through this thread again in its entirety...

You are layering different soils with hot stuff at the bottom - the young tap root will get down there pretty quickly and burn - easier to use progressively larger pots of one soil rather than a layered blend
I don't know why you are adding Epsom Salts - next time you take a bath, chuck it in the water and stick to CaMg, which you should need very little if any of with Bio
You should feed 1ml/L Gro while seedlings establish enough roots to get its nutes from the soil
A rough rule of thumb is increase by 1ml/L every 7-10 days up to 4ml/L, and stay there through veg
When you are ready to flower, start to switch to 3ml Gro 1ml Bloom, when you see flowering begin, 2ml/l Gro 2ml/L Bloom, then 1ml Gro 3ml Bloom
About halfway through flower go for it with 4-5ml/L Bloom [and TopMax if you want]

For reference, the above approach was applied to the grow below:

Dutch Kush, LSD, Strawberry Gum Grow Diary

Dutch Kush & Acid - can't remember what the freebies were Bio with babies, class A's for buds is working for me Two are leggy and will require surgery, wish I knew what the bushy one was Any guesses invited

www.420magazine.com

Hope that helps

I layered different soils in one attempt to see if it's working, which was like 2 months ago I think. That's what I read when I go through this thread in its entirety. Nothing against you, but I don't get why it's still mentioned that I'm layering, while the newest grow died in pure light mix, as mentioned a few days ago. One in a solo cup, the others in final pots, just for you guys, so you can see that it's not the "pot size". That layering attempt was one attempt, not every attempt I've tried so far. I know you just want to help & I'm very thankful for it, but you're using outdated infos in connection to my newest grow.

The epsom salts were just a trial attempt to fix my off 9:1 cal:mag ratio to 3:1, by adding both calmag (which is a 3:1 ratio) and pure food-grade epsom salts as a mag boost, to get to the actual 3:1 ratio of my water. That was the whole reason in this attempt.

Could you explain why I would need to feed Grow from the beginning in a pre-fertilized soil? Just so I understand, because isn't the whole reason of this stuff to not feed for at least 2 weeks? At least in Light Mix, of course. That's how I understood this stuff.

 

[Roy Growin]

Could you explain why I would need to feed Grow from the beginning in a pre-fertilized soil? Just so I understand, because isn't the whole reason of this stuff to not feed for at least 2 weeks? At least in Light Mix, of course. That's how I understood this stuff.

Yes, I see you have tried lots of different approaches without success
The reason I say to start weak feed is because the nutes are immediately available in liquid feed while the plant builds enough roots to use the substrate, just makes them stronger
My first watering is usually a tiny amount of feed, CaMg & Kelp, tepid boiled water

NL-seedling.jpg

• Roy Growin
• Feb 4, 2024

 

[013]

That’s great info Bluter & Roy, I’m confident the op will turn things around…

True story Acid but early on I slaughtered a metric crap ton of seeds, so many that my handle should have been the BeanSlayer. I was stuck on death by germination, it seemed as if they would halfway stand up and then just die. Later on realized most of mine died from damping off.

Anyway, you’ve got this bro, but we are always here to back you up anytime a need arises

 

[AgedMaster]

With autos you want to go easy on the nutrients there completely different to photoperiod this is what fast buds recommend

• Week 0 Germination - Plain water;
• Week 1 Seedling - Plain water;
• Week 2 Vegetating - ⅛ veg. nutes;
• Week 3 Vegetating - ¼ veg. nutes;
• Week 4 Vegetating - ¼ to ½ veg. nutes;
• Week 5 Pre-flowering - ¼ veg. nutes + ⅛ bloom;
• Week 6 Flowering - ¼ bloom + ⅛ veg. nutes;
• Week 7 Flowering - ¼ bloom nutes;
• Week 8 Flowering - ½ bloom nutes;
• Week 9 Flowering - ½ bloom nutes;
• Week 10 Ripening - ⅛ bloom nutes;
• Week 11 Flushing - Plain water.

 

[Acid]

Currently at day 5 of my seedlings. I'm following the advice of Roy. Solo cups (16oz), Biobizz Light Mix, just tap water and 1ml/L of Bio Grow this time. I'm not saying that I have any problems, but I want to show things I've noticed in my past attempts, and this one too. The biggest leaves always seem to become SLIGHTLY lighter in color, while the main vein of each leaf has a "dark green" shade around it. This was the case for every seedling so far which died. I can absolutely not tell if this is normal, or maybe a very early hint as to what might be happening.

Not trying to helicopter, just trying to help myself and you guys.

 

[bluter]

looks good.