My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Movers

Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

so my co2 meter showed up yesterday.turns out I was lied to when I bought my a/c unit.it is venting the room,it has to be.the co2 drops from 1600 to 1100 in 1 hour.so I now have the co2 turning on for 15 min twice an hour.it fluctuates between 1600 to 1200.its going to cost me alot for co2 until I can get a new a/c unit.imo its still worth it though.the co2 will give me a cpl extra pounds.
when I first plugged it in when the lights turned on
IMAG04877.jpg

after 15 min on
IMAG04886.jpg

after a full hour just before the co2 turned on again
IMAG04897.jpg

its not perfect but it works for now.im happy I got the meter I would of never known about the a/c otherwise:)
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Hmmm this is very interesting Jon !!!
I thought ALL ac's vent somehow the air ! So u r saying that There are some units that actually don't vent the air from inside ?

Edit: forgot to say great photos, great PLANTS bro !!
You are going to break the 60oz from the last time , I bet to this !!!:bravo:
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Also to be really honest Jon, This 1 hour period seems logical to me !!!
The plants don't consume co2 ? The level has to go down, in some period of time ...
Of course I'm NOT an expert, someone else that uses co2 has to really reply in this.

But that's what I'm thinking .. :/
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Yep thats how this a/c is suposed to work.it has dual hoses at the back.one draws air in from outside the room over the condenser to cool it and the other hose blows it back out of the unit.theres is a grill at the back that draws air in to be cooled and gets blown out the front nice and cold anf no air is vented out of the room. Maybe you are right Billy,maybe its normal to drop that much i just dont see the plants using that much that fast.not to mentiin the levels drop faster when the a/c is on.
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

i just order a berry bomb , white widow, and ice bomb from single seed canada ! cant wait!
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Yep thats how this a/c is suposed to work.it has dual hoses at the back.one draws air in from outside the room over the condenser to cool it and the other hose blows it back out of the unit.theres is a grill at the back that draws air in to be cooled and gets blown out the front nice and cold anf no air is vented out of the room. Maybe you are right Billy,maybe its normal to drop that much i just dont see the plants using that much that fast.not to mentiin the levels drop faster when the a/c is on.

Are you drawing air from outside the room though the AC to blow in, or is the inlet sucking in the warm air from the grow room itself and cooling and expelling that (so recirculating it basically).

If it's a sealed room and the AC's bringing air in from outside then you'll increase the air pressure in the room, lower the CO2 ppm, and the room won't stay sealed for long - the extra air has to find somewhere to go.
If it's not already set up to do it then you could try switching the AC so that it recirculates the air in the room and keeps a steady air pressure. The CO2 will stay more level and the room shouldn't vent
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

BOOM!
Nice vid Jon.
Co2 hhhmmmmm. Well i use a greenair spc to control my co2 levels. I have to be honest Jon i dont see a drop of 500ppm over an hour to be a huge drop when you consider the number and size of the plants you have in there but still the ac may have an impact. This is the reason i believe that really mini splits are probably the best to run in a co2 grow as they most defiantly do not exchange any air with the outside. Not sure if you have a fan near ground level to help push that precious co2 back up through the plants (remember it heavier than air). I have also read that co2 ppm over 1000 is not necessary as the plants only have a limited amount of internal chemistry to process it. I try link the article.
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Not only are essential elements made up of carbon but so are desired metabolites like those in sensory properties such as aroma and flavour. A lack of carbon would not only result in a lower biomass but the plants would also be of inferior quality and strength. This precious element is absorbed through the plants’ stomata in gas form, carbon dioxide (CO2), and transformed through capturing energy in the form of light energy in a process known as photosynthesis. The final result is a large quantity of carbon hydrates and other essential components for good plant growth and development. You can achieve a higher rate of photosynthesis by controlling the variables that affect the photosynthetic processes – light intensity and stomata opening, temperature and ambient CO2 levels – and therefore growth in the compound formation that accelerates the plant’s metabolism and therefore the desirable processes including but not limited to the production and taste.

Generally CO2 is one of the minority air gases. It is normally in a 300 ppm concentration, but is constantly increasing due to the use of fossil energy combustion. In a natural open environment these levels remain constant, but large variations can occur in enclosed areas such as greenhouses and cultivation rooms. As the plants grow, their demand for CO2 increases because the amount of biomass is increasing, so if the correct air renewal is not provided at moments of high temperature, e.g. at midday, the CO2 concentrations can drop to critical levels. One of the methods we can use to maintain constant CO2 levels is good air renewal. Have extractors remove the air lacking in CO2 and good air intakes or fans that allow new air to flow in. Bearing this in mind, it’s evident that an extractor with sufficient power to guarantee the plants’ correct development is required. But plants can tolerate and absorb greater CO2 levels and we can therefore use it to increase the plant’s photosynthetic rate and in this way process a larger quantity of desirable metabolites. It is believed this reaction is due to plants having evolved millions of years ago when the earth’s atmosphere was much richer in CO2 than now, and although the current levels are sufficient, in actual fact plants grew and evolved in environments much richer in CO2.

Effects Of Increasing CO2 Concentration

Although a plant can perfectly tolerate levels between 1500 and 2500 ppm, in practice levels do not usually even reach 900 or 1000 ppm. In all the biologicalmachinery involved in the exploitation of the air’s carbon, one of the most important enzymes is rubisco which is combined with CO2 to activate sugar formation. But this enzyme also has an affinity to combine with oxygen and when this happens, some of the CO2 absorbed is not used. CO2 levels of 1000 ppm are sufficient to block the effect of rubisco oxygenation and photorespiration, and at such CO2 levels the stomata absorb more and make more effective use of CO2.

When CO2 levels rise, the ideal photosynthesis temperature also rises, which is why temperatures around 26°C are beneficial and this is the ideal temperature for your cultivation room. Photosynthesis rates also increase with more intensive light, so you get better results with greatly increased light intensities. In other words you won’t notice “extraordinary” results if you don’t use high powered discharge lamps (600W to 1000W).

Another effect which is going to determine the plants’ correct absorption of water and nutrients in CO2 rich environments is lowering transpiration to 40%. It could be said that transpiration is the physiological cost of photosynthesis. Remember that the transportation of water and therefore of the nutrients through the plant is carried out by the tension caused by these transpiration phenomena. Water evaporates through the stomata creating a tension that causes the roots to absorb new water molecules from their surroundings. When transpiration diminishes, the absorption of water and thus also nutrients also decreases. So how can we ensure that the plant’s growth improves if its water intake is limited? The answer is that photosynthetic use of water is more efficient in CO2 rich environments. But even if we can influence the environment and reduce transpiration, we will still have a growing environment with very high ambient humidity. And even if the water is utilized better, the amount absorbed by the roots will still be less and therefore the fewer nutrients will be entering the plant. This in turn will reduce the rate at which nutrients are transported through the plant and this can be particularly detrimental to the transport of low mobility elements such as calcium.

The next aspect we have to consider is the need to increase concentrations of nutrients, also in response to the plant’s increased metabolic rate which requires a higher nutrient input in CO2 rich environments. This is why when we bathe our plants in CO2 we encounter another limiting factor which is difficult to regulate: the excess humidity should be expelled by our extraction system to maintain optimum humidity levels for correct transpiration and also for preventing fungicidal diseases, such as botrytis, which will destroy the yield. However, the extractor will not only remove the excessive humidity but it will also remove the extra CO2 added, so we’re back to square one! In the next paragraph we’ll look at some different and hopefully more efficient systems to administer extra CO2.

Methods For Administering CO2

We can classify methods for administering CO2 to plants into two groups, that is hot or cold techniques. Hot techniques employ gas combustion to generate CO2 and also heat. The method is excellent in extremely cold environments, where the extra heat is also needed to achieve temperatures suitable for growing. Generating CO2 via combustion has an added inconvenience – one of the by-products is water vapour! That extra humidity from the combustion is harmful in the advanced stages of blooming, when it is essential to have low humidity levels.

Cold Gas Techniques

Cold techniques include methods where CO2 comes from compressed gas cylinders or from chemical reactions, such as fermentation or dry ice. These two methods are attractive considering they are fairly safe and relatively cheap. Don’t be surprised if the cost of a gas cylinder system with controller and regulator is beyond your budget! In certain circumstances fermentation or dry ice may be insufficient. Their slow and/or scarce CO2 emission, plus fact that it is almost impossible to regulate a stable flow, means that you never get up to the levels needed to produce great results or if you do, the extra CO2 is just too late to make a difference. This method has other drawbacks: when you connect extractors to expel the humidity generated by your plants’ transpiration (remember what we said earlier about maintaining low levels of relative humidity, especially in blooming periods) the CO2 generated would also be extracted. So you would have to wait until the CO2 levels were correct again and many of these systems do not feature rapid gas generation. However they do not stop contributing extra CO2 which could sometimes produce favourable results. If you do use one of these methods, you should be clear about the quantity of CO2 they generate before purchasing or using them, and maybe most importantly, the speed at which they generate CO2, so you can make your calculations and apply them to your cultivation.

As we have seen, the main obstacle for CO2 fertilization is ventilation at times of high humidity. Taking this into consideration the most effective method is a gas cylinder system with controllers and regulators. These systems are more expensive but above all much safer and more effective as they are capable of achieving and replacing the desired CO2 levels in a short space of time. Also the possibility of connecting regulators allows a constant concentration with hardly any variations. This aspect is important as unstable CO2 levels throughout the cultivation mean continuous readjustment of the other parameters involved (temperature, humidity, nutrients, etc) to ensure that the carbon dioxide fertilization was really effective and safe. Apart from a regulator, a CO2 measuring gauge is also very important. Remember that CO2 is a colourless, odourless, asphyxiant gas and the human exposure tolerance is around 0.5%. So we would not recommend using CO2 gas cylinder methods without a good regulator that enables you to control the amount of CO2 released as well as a gauge that tells you the CO2 level in your cultivation room. The measuring probe should be inside the cultivation room and the indicator screen should be located outside, so that you can turn the cylinder on or off without having to enter your cultivation room. Needless to say there are mechanisms on the market that start the extractors when a specified humidity level of is reached. The most important thing is to have a system that shuts off CO2 emission when the extractors are started on reaching the desired humidity limits to avoid gas waste. The gas supply must also be shut off during hours of darkness.



Obviously the ventilation system must have good ventilators to avoid CO2 stratification in the lower levels of the cultivation room owing to the greater weight of the carbon dioxide compared to other gases. Because of this, CO2 emission should generally be in the upper part of the cultivation area. Also consider that the gas released from a gas pressure cylinder is cold and this will lower the temperature, which may even be beneficial in extremely warm periods.

Cold Water Techniques

Another method we can consider is carbon dioxide ferti-irrigation, which is administering through watering. A method to enrich the irrigation water with CO2 is by injecting the gas in the water under pressure.

Nutrients are almost always added after the CO2. You can achieve various benefits using this system, but the actual reasons and the mechanism in the plant is not yet fully understood. Some studies indicate that the advantages of carbon dioxide ferti-irrigation are derived from the capacity the CO2 has to acidify when dissolved in water, as it quickly turns into carbonic acid. This acidification is beneficial for the absorption of certain nutrients which would otherwise be blocked at certain times due to the properties of the cultivation ground. Certain micro organisms that benefit the soil would also gain from this acidification.
Whatever the reason, these benefits are not the product of greater assimilation or acquisition of CO2.

CO2 Good For Parents Too

Lastly I would like to point out that when we talk of CO2 we always consider our
blooming room and the general benefits it has on the yield, but we should not forget the great advantages CO2 offers in our valuable mother plant room. Owing to the fact that adding extra CO2 produces a growth and speeds up biomass formation, a 20-30% increase in cuttings from the mother plant can be obtained in the same space of time, with the consequent saving of space this represents. Also a growing room does not require such strict humidity control as the blooming room. Furthermore, in intensive hydroponic cultivation or where the addition of organic material is poor, the extra addition of CO2 contributes to a higher quality level by supplementing the carbon deficiencies that the plants could have by not having organic molecules available in the soil.

Remember, using CO2 is not straightforward; it requires the extensive control and adjustment of other parameters such as temperature, humidity, light intensity, nutrient levels, etc. to obtain the desired results. For this you will need not only experience but also the equipment to control the values of what we are trying to achieve.
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Just went back and looked at ur pics again and saw the fan below the screen. Also keep an eye on the ppm while you working in the room. You will blow out how quick they climb with your breathing. Mine got to 4000+ one day and i got a nasty headache and had to get out for a while.
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Your video's great Jon; really nice to get the full picture of the grow and all the perspective. Very helpful watching it too; I see now much more clearly how you've trained and topped so that each screen hole has its own top. Lovely set up too!!
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Are you drawing air from outside the room though the AC to blow in, or is the inlet sucking in the warm air from the grow room itself and cooling and expelling that (so recirculating it basically).

If it's a sealed room and the AC's bringing air in from outside then you'll increase the air pressure in the room, lower the CO2 ppm, and the room won't stay sealed for long - the extra air has to find somewhere to go.
If it's not already set up to do it then you could try switching the AC so that it recirculates the air in the room and keeps a steady air pressure. The CO2 will stay more level and the room shouldn't vent
Hey Green Knight:)the unit draws air from outside the room and then blows it back out to cool the condenser,and draws air from in the room cools it and blows it back into the room so they're should'nt be any co2 lose from it.there is a good chance that the room is leaking air as well,its going to have to do until I build they're new home out back in the spring.Im really looking forward to building a "workshop" from the ground up designed around my current system, its gonna be sweet!

ps:glad you like the set-up bro its been a work in progress for a year now.Its staying like it is until the new rooms are built.thats when I ll get into burners,res chillers and all that cool shit:)
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

the only 2 cents I have is the higher the temps in the room the more CO2 gets absorbed. so maybe you might look at no AC while you are giving CO2 :)
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

Just went back and looked at ur pics again and saw the fan below the screen. Also keep an eye on the ppm while you working in the room. You will blow out how quick they climb with your breathing. Mine got to 4000+ one day and i got a nasty headache and had to get out for a while.

That's really dangerous. If you have more Co2 in your lungs than oxygen you will pass out. If that happens in a Co2 enriched environment you are likely to then asphyxiate and die. Take any kind of warning signs such as dizziness or headache very seriously and leave the room immediately. If possible just shut off the Co2 and leave the door open when you work in there imo.
(I'm sure you know that already this is just for everyone's benefit)
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

That's really dangerous. If you have more Co2 in your lungs than oxygen you will pass out. If that happens in a Co2 enriched environment you are likely to then asphyxiate and die. Take any kind of warning signs such as dizziness or headache very seriously and leave the room immediately. If possible just shut off the Co2 and leave the door open when you work in there imo.
(I'm sure you know that already this is just for everyone's benefit)

I'm with the doc on this one.
When setting up my room on my last grow, there was a time that I felt super tired and dizzy.
Turned out it was a combination of the tank on, having the room sealed, and my added breathing that brought the room to dangerous levels.
To anyone that uses CO2, it's just not worth it! turn it off when you're in there working for any length of time..
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

That's really dangerous. If you have more Co2 in your lungs than oxygen you will pass out. If that happens in a Co2 enriched environment you are likely to then asphyxiate and die. Take any kind of warning signs such as dizziness or headache very seriously and leave the room immediately. If possible just shut off the Co2 and leave the door open when you work in there imo.
(I'm sure you know that already this is just for everyone's benefit)

Yeah i kind of figured that out myself eh :oops:
You are all spot on though! Who would of thought growing could be so dangerous!
 
Re: My First Grow Journal-Holy Grail Kush- Purple Kush 6x12 Scrog 4 x 600W LEDs On Mo

I said it to Doc aswell Jon but maybe look at GLR as a way to save some cash on lighting and co2. I cant tell enough people about how much this has streamlined my grow and along with led lighting saved me a packet over the last few months!
Just a thought. Do with it what you will :thumb:

Oh and if anybody interested where that article came from on co2 it was from the canna nutrients website. I use there products and registered on there website which gives u access to some really sweet science based grow articles. Worth a look to those of you so inclined!
 
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