Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help!

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

I only read part of the thread so I might have missed it but do you use city/town/treated water or have a well? Also I did see testing the pH level of your water mentioned but if not already told you should check the EC/PPM of the water and also perform pour through tests and check the EC/PPM of the runoff water.

Hey BrickTop thanks for stopping by and the advice!!
In my grow journal I have everything detailed out...
the pH of my tap water is between 6.5-7.0
after i added my nutes to the gallon the pH went to 4.0-5.0
after pH adjusting the mixture it was back to almost 7.0
the runoff after pouring the mix into the plants came out as 4.0-5.0

even after the first flush i did the highest reading i got was maybe 6.0

I need something to measure the ppm and EC and I have to do some reading to figure out what that stuff is as well hahaha...

 

[KingJohnC]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

PPM= Part Per Million
EC= Electrical Conductivity

 

[Marzbadrock]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

The pH of the runoff is confirming my thoughts, you shouldn't use bloom nutes either until the plant has started to bloom and is needing pk, most soils like foxfarm supply enough nutrient for about 4 to 6 weeks before needing to start a feeding schedule. Flush your pots until runoff pH matches the pH of your water you are putting in. Keep in mind though, after the deathly low pH, the flush, and whatever else may be going on in your soil you probably killed or washed away all beneficial mykos and organisms so your plants will not be up to full potential and you prob have very week root system leaving you at risk for root rot. I'd replenish soil with some great white or orca and be sure to monitor pH, ec, and or ppm to make sure you don't run into problems.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

PPM= Part Per Million
EC= Electrical Conductivity

Sorry KJC I should have elaborated a bit...
I knew what the initials stood for but I am foreign to the importance and what each thing is means how you measure it and correct it if needed etc etc ...
Needles to say I have some homework to do...

Thank you!

 

[Brick Top]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

The pH of the runoff is confirming my thoughts, you shouldn't use bloom nutes either until the plant has started to bloom and is needing pk, most soils like foxfarm supply enough nutrient for about 4 to 6 weeks before needing to start a feeding schedule. Flush your pots until runoff pH matches the pH of your water you are putting in. Keep in mind though, after the deathly low pH, the flush, and whatever else may be going on in your soil you probably killed or washed away all beneficial mykos and organisms so your plants will not be up to full potential and you prob have very week root system leaving you at risk for root rot. I'd replenish soil with some great white or orca and be sure to monitor pH, ec, and or ppm to make sure you don't run into problems.

The EC and PPM will tell you what's in your growing medium and what's going on. It alone can tip you off to a pH imbalance, just not to what extent.

But one BIG mistake many make is practically force feeding their plants right up until the end of the vegetative stage of growth and then with the next watering go to flowering nutes. They don't realize the growing medium is likely overloaded with vegging nutes yet and now they are adding flowering nutes to them and not only way over feeding but feeding an improper balance of nutes.

You either need to cut back on the vegging nutes near the end of the vegetative stage of growth so whats in the growing medium will be used up or flush the growing medium when going to flower so when you feed flowering nutes you're not setting yourself up for problems.

That is the cause for many cases of 'The Claw.' That's a result of nitrogen toxicity and it's because there's a buildup of vegging level nitrogen in the soil and then you add more with the lower levels in the flowering nutes and combined it is way to much and the plant suffers vascular damage, and that does not heal or repair itself and later when plants grow taller and need more water and nutes higher up there isn't a sufficient vascular system in the lower part of the plant to let what's needed move upward.

Checking the EC and PPM at the end of the vegetative stage of growth and before feeding in the flowering stage of growth is a key time to do some checking. You can head off a lot of problems that way.

A lot of growers think they are good growers when they can look at their plants and diagnose problems but when you know enough to do what it takes to avoid having problems, well, then you're getting to the point where you can start to consider yourself good.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

The pH of the runoff is confirming my thoughts, you shouldn't use bloom nutes either until the plant has started to bloom and is needing pk, most soils like foxfarm supply enough nutrient for about 4 to 6 weeks before needing to start a feeding schedule. Flush your pots until runoff pH matches the pH of your water you are putting in. Keep in mind though, after the deathly low pH, the flush, and whatever else may be going on in your soil you probably killed or washed away all beneficial mykos and organisms so your plants will not be up to full potential and you prob have very week root system leaving you at risk for root rot. I'd replenish soil with some great white or orca and be sure to monitor pH, ec, and or ppm to make sure you don't run into problems.

Yah ... the post above that I replied with to BrickTop touched on that...
see info from my grow journal below:

FOLLOWING EXCERPT FROM GROW JOURNAL 07-08-14
--------------
<pH TESTING>
--------------
-Small Plant
---Tap water with nutes
------Water w/ nutes tested ACIDIC
------Color came up reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0
------Added 0.75 tsp of pH UP to get it back to 6.5 - 7.0
---Poured in the mix into Small Plant
------Took about 3/4 of the gallon and then got heavy runoff
------After approx. 30 seconds of runoff I grabbed a sample for testing
---------Results of runoff testing were ACIDIC
---------Color was reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0

-Medium Plant
---Tap water with nutes
------Water w/ nutes tested ACIDIC
------Color came up reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0
------Added 0.75 tsp of pH UP to get it back to 6.5 - 7.0
---Poured in the mix into Medium Plant
------Took about 3/4 of the gallon and then got heavy runoff
------After approx. 30 seconds of runoff I grabbed a sample for testing
---------Results of runoff testing were ACIDIC
---------Color was reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0

-Large Plant
---Tap water with nutes
------Water w/ nutes tested ACIDIC
------Color came up reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0
------Added 0.75 tsp of pH UP to get it back to 6.5 - 7.0
---Poured in the mix into Large Plant
------Took about 3/4 of the gallon and then got heavy runoff
------After approx. 30 seconds of runoff I grabbed a sample for testing
---------Results of runoff testing were ACIDIC
---------Color was reddish indicating a pH of between 4.0 - 5.0

FOLLOWING EXCERPT FROM GROW JOURNAL 07-15-14
----------
FLUSHING
----------
-FIRST FLUSH TONIGHT
---Attempting to flush the soil NEUTRAL
---Flushed each plant with 6 gallons of STRAIGHT WATER pHd @ 6.5 - 7.0
---Each runoff after 6 gallons still read ACIDIC 4.0-5.0
---Decided to keep going with flushing and just used the hose after a while cause it was taking too much time and effort to keep filling up jugs
---Needless to say I lost count of how many gallons I used per plant
---After half hour of flushing and testing the best reading I got from any of the plants was between 5.0-maybe 6.0

 

[KingJohnC]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

A EC or PPM meter is used to check the strength of a solution. If you are in North America purchase a PPM meter or a meter that does PPM and EC readings.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

A EC or PPM meter is used to check the strength of a solution. If you are in North America purchase a PPM meter or a meter that does PPM and EC readings.

I did a search online yesterday and all I could find were meters for water...
Nothing that I saw listed both ppm and EC...
Nothing said specifically for soil testing that I can recall...
I am going to continue searching today...

Does anyone have a link to one somewhere online I could check out>>??

 

[Brick Top]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

I did a search online yesterday and all I could find were meters for water...
Nothing that I saw listed both ppm and EC...
Nothing said specifically for soil testing that I can recall...
I am going to continue searching today...

Does anyone have a link to one somewhere online I could check out>>??

If you Google EC PPM Meter you get about 1,900,000 results. Not all are places to buy them but many are. And the type of meter you need is not something you stick in the soil. It tests your water and it tests the runoff, the water that comes out of your pots into your drip pans when you water. They are meters to test liquids/water, not actual soil itself. There are combination meters that perform up to six different functions, some of which you don't need, but you could buy one to test pH, EC and PPM or EC and PPM or one that would also include temperature. There's tons to pick from. Just do go cheap and buy junk or it will be unreliable.

Here's two options and there's tons more.

Combination Meters - Testers: pH & PPM - Nutrients, Additives & Testers - All Growing Supplies

There are many more and if you live in or near a half decent sized town or city you can likely find one locally.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

If you Google EC PPM Meter you get about 1,900,000 results. Not all are places to buy them but many are. And the type of meter you need is not something you stick in the soil. It tests your water and it tests the runoff, the water that comes out of your pots into your drip pans when you water. They are meters to test liquids/water, not actual soil itself. There are combination meters that perform up to six different functions, some of which you don't need, but you could buy one to test pH, EC and PPM or EC and PPM or one that would also include temperature. There's tons to pick from. Just do go cheap and buy junk or it will be unreliable.

Here's two options and there's tons more.

Combination Meters - Testers: pH & PPM - Nutrients, Additives & Testers - All Growing Supplies

There are many more and if you live in or near a half decent sized town or city you can likely find one locally.

Thank you so much for laying that out for me ...
I was getting confused about soil and liquids and so on ...

 

[Brick Top]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

Thank you so much for laying that out for me ...
I was getting confused about soil and liquids and so on ...

You're welcome .... it's my pleasure. There is always something new to someone and just mentioning it to the person isn't always enough, you have to include some info and in my previous message about the meter I didn't go into enough detail. After you purchase your meter and are going to do a pour through test go here and read and then do it just like it says if you want a reading you can trust and rely on to be accurate. Using The PourThru Procedure For Nursery Crops ...I'd say read the whole page but at least scroll down to where it says "How To Do A Pour Thru on Container Nursery Crops" and then follow the bouncing ball and do just as it says.

 

[Brick Top]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

A little tip for the future, something to make sure you know you are starting off on the right foot and also to have a baseline or comparative to go by. Before your next crop take some of the soil you will use, put it in a small container, a party cup or something roughly an equal size is large enough. Pour in enough ph neutral water to cover it. Distilled water should be pH neutral but if you use it check it with a calibrated/accurate pH meter to be sure because I have bought distilled water and found it was not actually pH neutral. Let it sit overnight and then check the water and see what readings you get. Check pH, EC, PPM and write it down. If anything is not good, fix it then rather than wait to see signs of problems with your plants and then try to first figure it out and then correct it and hope your plants bounce back well.

It doesn't matter if you use cheap soil or the highest dollar 'designer soils.' Now and then you can get a batch where something is off and off enough that you will have problems you would not expect and should not have to deal with.

Then when you know you have a good safe start keep up on things, check things regularly and if you see even a slight variation that could lead to negative effects, especially if it would get worse, deal with it right away. Make it right before plant problems can begin.

The best way to deal with plant problems is to avoid them by staying one step ahead of anything that can cause problems. Head them off at the pass, so to say, don't let them happen, it's sort of like 'safe sex' but for growing. Don't take chances or risk leaving things to luck. Never assume that because something is fine and dandy today that it still will be in a few days or in a week or two.

Growing is really something simple to do, just as driving is really simple to do. But simple or not you have to keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road at all times.

 

[KingJohnC]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

I did a search online yesterday and all I could find were meters for water...
Nothing that I saw listed both ppm and EC...
Nothing said specifically for soil testing that I can recall...
I am going to continue searching today...

Does anyone have a link to one somewhere online I could check out>>??

EC and PPM meters are for liquids only and detect Electrical Conductivity and Parts Per Million in the solution. PPM meters are also called TDS or Total Dissolved Solids meters.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

A big thanks once again to everyone for all their support and expertise!!

Please check out the pictures below for todays update!!

I am ordering a meter tonight and will get you guys some readings ASAP!!

;;;small plant;;;

;;;medium plant;;;

;;;large plant;;;

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

Just posted some of this in my grow journal but here it is for the problem followers LoL

Day 45
Veg. Day 34
07-26-14 6:00 pm

FINALLY AN UPDATE!!

-Large Plant is still getting bigger and doing great
---The two tops are amazing
---White hairs have sprouted all over the tops
---There is a bit of decay all over the plant but new growth is clean
-Medium Plant is doing just as good as the Large plant
---White hairs have appeared all over this one as well
---More decay on this one than the Large plant along with a bunch of the lower fan leaves dying off
-Small Plant is still hanging in there
---Decay is still all over it but the new growth on top is clean
-Box will be done soon (traveling and work SUCK)
-Fed and watered each plant with half strength nutes for 4th FF schedule week
-Temp. & Hum. have been in the same range as throughout this grow
-Still on 18/6 light and fan schedule and I think this has caused the amazing growth I have been seeing
-The Large and Medium plants got so tall that they got burned on the bulbs a couple times

-On a STOOPIDER note LoL...I was giving false info for a while on here about the soil I was using...I dont know how or why I got Ocean Forest stuck in my head but I was using LIGHT WARRIOR not OF...I included some pics below of the bag and closeups of the ingredients and such...

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttt...

-EVERYONE should be happy to know that I have finally ordered the right tools!!
---With KJCs advice I went with the ProMix HP & the Cal-Mag supplement, I also ordered a pH and ppm tester and some vermiculite to mix in with the ProMix



--------------
SMALL PLANT
--------------

----------------
MEDIUM PLANT
----------------

---------------
LARGE PLANT
---------------

----------------
GROUP SHOTS
----------------

 

[Antics]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

Only use Vermiculite if your soil dries out too fast and doesn't hold water well.

Perlite should be used to improve drainage when soil holds water too long.

 

[KingJohnC]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

FoxFarm Light Warrior soil is a much better choice for small plants than FoxFarm Ocean Forest soil. I have not had any problems by including vermiculite in my soiless mixture.

Here is my soiless mixture

I use peat moss, perlite, vermiculite and mycorrhizae for my plants. I would mix your soiless mixture in a ratio of 60% peat moss, 20% perlite and 20% vermiculite. If you can get Pro-Mix HP you would only need to add 20% vermiculite and mycorrhizae. Vermiculite acts as a catalyst between nutrients and the plants roots as well as retaining moisture.

PRO-MIX HP Mycorrhizae - High porosity peat-based growing medium


https://www.hydro-organics.com earth juice rooters mycorrhizae

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

FoxFarm Light Warrior soil is a much better choice for small plants than FoxFarm Ocean Forest soil. I have not had any problems by including vermiculite in my soiless mixture.

Here is my soiless mixture

I use peat moss, perlite, vermiculite and mycorrhizae for my plants. I would mix your soiless mixture in a ratio of 60% peat moss, 20% perlite and 20% vermiculite. If you can get Pro-Mix HP you would only need to add 20% vermiculite and mycorrhizae. Vermiculite acts as a catalyst between nutrients and the plants roots as well as retaining moisture.

PRO-MIX HP Mycorrhizae - High porosity peat-based growing medium


https://www.hydro-organics.com earth juice rooters mycorrhizae

I ordered 2 of the 2.2 cuf of the ProMixHP a bag of 8 qts of vermiculite ... the pro mix says it has the mycorrhizae in it no?

 

[KingJohnC]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

Pro-Mix HP has 1 species of mycorrhizae added, I add 10 others species of mycorrhizae and more of the strain already contained in Pro-Mix HP. When I transplant my plants to larger size pots I use 1 teaspoon per 1 gallon size pot and 2 teaspoons per 3-5 gallon size pot of additional mycorrhizae granules.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help

Pro-Mix HP has 1 species of mycorrhizae added, I add 10 others species of mycorrhizae and more of the strain already contained in Pro-Mix HP. When I transplant my plants to larger size pots I use 1 teaspoon per 1 gallon size pot and 2 teaspoons per 3-5 gallon size pot of additional mycorrhizae granules.

KJC

I will look into the additional mycorrhizae right now!!