Mites last three weeks

[cbdhemp808]

limonene is just one of the components in orange oil.

There's two things... one is pure 100% food grade limonene. This can be purchased from a terpene company, in glass bottles. I have some of that, and that's primarily what I use on the plants, in a very diluted form. You can also find pure 100% food grade limonene in PET plastic bottles, but I only use that for cleaning, etc. I also have food grade orange essential oil from NOW FOODS, 4oz glass bottle, which smells a bit more like oranges than 100% limonene. Orange oil, depending on the formula, is mostly limonene.

the orange oil here is sold exclusively in plastic, and is an incredible emulsifier and solvent. it's also prominently labelled poison. plastic is one of the few things it is supposed to be impervious to it.

Incorrect. Glass is the best thing to store limonene in, because it won't react with the glass. Do some more research and you'll see that limonene completely dissolves some types of plastic (Styrofoam), and does interact even with PET plastic.

my bet is you are referring to the tiny essential oil bottles, which is a different product. it is not a solvent, it is kind of a flavoring, usually used more for aroma than anything. i'm not sure it is an effective miticide, i kinda think we might have had commercial products with it as an ingredient if it was.

There's no need to bet on anything I'm saying, because I'm telling you exactly what I'm talking about, and I've done the research.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Yes but it is the amounts used when spraying for mites or insects.. The Limonene is found in the buds but the concentrations are low enough that those are safe for people and mites. Otherwise, if the levels were higher then there would be no mites on the plant.

Yeah, I think that's incorrect on two counts: 1) The concentration I'm spraying is like 12 drops in 1 gallon of water, sprayed over several plants. The idea is that it kills on contact, and then being highly volatile, most evaporates away; 2) The limonene in the buds is contained in the trichomes to a large degree. Sure, some off gasses, mostly during the day. The amount that's safe (or not safe) for mites has nothing to do with the amount that's safe for humans.

As long as the warning is there when recommending products like that it is OK. Way to often we can see people posting photos of bottles of "whatever" that they want to use to control mites or any insects. They want the dosage to use since it is not on the container. Often wonder where they find this stuff; probably in some abandoned garage where it has been sitting for a couple of decades.

I'm not recommending anything that's not safe. Yeah, people should understand what they are doing before spraying stuff on their plants.

 

[cbdhemp808]

i'm pretty sure the emulsifier is a much more concentrated product. also most essential oils in the small bottle are suspended in a tiny amount of alcohol, which may make a difference. the extraction process is likely not the same.

I am very familiar with small bottles of essential oil. These don't contain alcohol. Some examples: tea tree oil, lemongrass, citronella, sandlewood, vetiver. When I talk about pure food grade orange oil, this is what I'm talking about.

I'm also very familiar with small bottles of herbal tinctures or extracts. These do contain either alcohol or glycerine. (For example, high-quality milk thistle extract contains 70% alcohol, and also water.) Some examples: ginseng, St. john's wort, hawthorn, echinacea, goldenseal.

Flavorings that come in small bottles, e.g. vanilla, are something I'm not too familiar and don't really use for anything.

An emulsifier is a compound that helps mix two substances together. For example, liquid soap is an emulsifier for oil and water.

 

[Chrondocious]

My go to for bugs during flowering is a solution of limonene and Bronner's peppermint soap. Limonene is one of the primary cannabis terpenes, and you can purchase it online as food grade orange oil, or orange essential oil. Beware of limonene sold in plastic... it can wind up containing plastic chemicals. I don't use any limonene on my cannabis plants that comes from a plastic bottle... only glass. Limonene is a potent insecticide, but care must be taken not to use too much in a foliar spray solution... it will burn leaves if you use too much. What I use is about 12 drops of limonene in 1 gal of water, with addition of 12 drops soap.

Im gonna give that a go. Bronners works great too.

 

[Chrondocious]

All this talk about essential oils being dangerous....theyre not. Yes....some can burn your skin, like tea tree, thats why we dilute it. This application is far safer than any commercial spinosaid BS you can purchase. Citrus is a natural insecticide, as is rosemary, mint, tea tree...etc. Also.....someone mentioned bronners burning plants. Lol.....no. If anything it will leave a white residue on the leafs, and could burn from magnifying the light. There is a product called method1 PPS. Its essential oils mixed with hemp oil as a carrier. You can, and I have used it up to 2 weeks before harvest. Excellent product. It is designed as an IPM, and not an insecticide, although it does kill pests. Great solution for 100% natural growers.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have had very good luck with the @Sierra Natural Science products. To answer a question from above, all of the products are safe to use right up to the day of harvest. I wrote a review on SNS-217, the SNS nuclear bomb against spider mites. Click on the link to read it.

I have mites hidden somewhere in my main bloom room. If I don't do something, mites take over every grow. It is a given. I have tried all the popular advice, as well as the non popular and more poison kind. I have never had luck getting rid of these critters until I started using SNS products.

First, I use SNS 209 from the very beginning of the grow, and then once a week all through the grow. This product makes your plants taste bad to the bugs and protects you proactively if you know you are going to have a problem. If bugs start in, I start spraying SNS 203, for it will wipe out most bugs whether they be soil or leaf based, and it will deal with molds and fungus problems too. If the mites start winning because I assume I got them, or I take my eyes off of the problem for a few days, I will use SNS 217... the mites dont stand a chance. Not even one.

 

[bluter]

There's two things... one is pure 100% food grade limonene. This can be purchased from a terpene company, in glass bottles. I have some of that, and that's primarily what I use on the plants, in a very diluted form. You can also find pure 100% food grade limonene in PET plastic bottles, but I only use that for cleaning, etc. I also have food grade orange essential oil from NOW FOODS, 4oz glass bottle, which smells a bit more like oranges than 100% limonene. Orange oil, depending on the formula, is mostly limonene.

Incorrect. Glass is the best thing to store limonene in, because it won't react with the glass. Do some more research and you'll see that limonene completely dissolves some types of plastic (Styrofoam), and does interact even with PET plastic.

i dunno. first you say it can't be stored in plastic then you say you use the stuff stored in plastic as a cleaner. it's not a big deal.

this is the stuff we use as a cleaner

made of 100% orange peel, stored in plastic, labelled poison. typically called orange oil here, comes under a few different brands. it also smokes like crazy if using it in an automotive vacuum leak smoke detector, much the same way mineral oil does.

these are some of the essential oils i use

note the brand.
also labelled not for human consumption. just very tiny to read, and not labelled poison. the eucalyptus is steam distilled (non alcohol), the frankincense is pressed then distilled, resulting in a tiny amount of alcohol.

There's no need to bet on anything I'm saying, because I'm telling you exactly what I'm talking about, and I've done the research.

i use these products a lot. i use the orange oil a lot for cleaning engine and car parts.



edit : to be clear - i would never use the poison stuff on my plants or advise anyone to. if the stuff in the tiny bottle is closely related as you say i would avoid it like the plague as well to be safe.

 

[cbdhemp808]

i dunno. first you say it can't be stored in plastic then you say you use the stuff stored in plastic as a cleaner. it's not a big deal.

I think I was pretty clear... what I put on the plants is food grade from a glass bottle (no contaminants).

What I use as a cleaner comes in a clear PET plastic bottle (contaminants, who cares, cuz it's only used for cleaning). This product is 100% limonene, clear, and I add it to my own mixture of alcohol, water, and liquid soap. When I shake up the mixture, it's a white liquid. I have it in a spray bottle and use it for various kitchen clean-ups, etc., and it also kills ants very fast.

note the brand.
also labelled not for human consumption. just very tiny to read, and not labelled poison. the eucalyptus is steam distilled (non alcohol), the frankincense is pressed then distilled, resulting in a tiny amount of alcohol.

Yep, that's the brand of orange oil that I get, which is OK for human consumption. It's essentially the same as this orange oil, used in cooking and baking...

Pure Orange Oil

Buy pure orange oil in bulk at OliveNation to add delicious citrus flavor to baked goods, frosting, ice cream, sauces, and so much more. This versatile flavoring is perfect for home or commercial bakery and beverage applications. Shop clean label ingredients online at OliveNation and save on...

www.olivenation.com

As I said, the NOW FOODS orange oil the least expensive source of food grade limonene that I could find (something like 75-97% limonene). The stuff from the terpene company is more expensive, but is 100% limonene.

i use these products a lot. i use the orange oil a lot for cleaning engine and car parts.
edit : to be clear - i would never use the poison stuff on my plants or advise anyone to. if the stuff in the tiny bottle is closely related as you say i would avoid it like the plague as well.

Well, "orange oil" in a plastic bottle that's intended as an industrial cleaner is completely different than food grade limonene or food grade orange oil in glass. Sure, they both contain limonene, but that's not the point. The point is... what was the method used for extraction and what contaminants are in the product? To be "food grade", there must be a level of purity not required for the orange oil cleaner.

 

[bluter]

Well, "orange oil" in a plastic bottle that's intended as an industrial cleaner is completely different than food grade limonene or food grade orange oil in glass. Sure, they both contain limonene, but that's not the point. The point is... what was the method used for extraction and what contaminants are in the product? To be "food grade", there must be a level of purity not required for the orange oil cleaner.

i'd just advise to stay away from all of it. the orange oil cleaning products in the US are also not labelled poison or toxic, that seems concerning. we have a higher standard here. i wouldn't want anyone getting sick from it by having the products confused.

the essential oils i buy in the bottles are sold in a natural foods store, the clerks will advise against ingesting any of them, as do the bottles. i can't tell you if that would extend to using them in a spray on stuff to be consumed later though.

edit : btw that cleaner is stupid expensive here. over $50 for 473ml.

more edit : just as an aside, i asked the sponsor of the bong cleaning product if they were using a limonene product, as that seemed to be the type of emulsifier that would be used. he replied they couldn't be used in that app for the same reasons i won't use it on a plant.

 

[cbdhemp808]

i'd just advise to stay away from all of it.

Look, I just explained in this thread why pure food grade limonene, from a glass bottle, is a safe and natural way to kill insects on flowering or non-flowering cannabis plants, when mixed in the correct dilution in water with all-natural, organic liquid soap as an emulsifier.

It's not rocket science. But as with a lot of things, if you don't know what you're doing, best not to go there.

You can stay away from it if you want, but the reasons you are giving don't make a whole lot of sense to me.

How does food grade limonene kill insects?

"...d-Limonene, an active ingredients present in the essential oil [destroys] the wax layer of the insect respiratory system so that once applied directly, the insects will suffocate."

From the EPA's sheet on limonene:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists limonene as Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) as a food additive or flavoring and a fragrance additive..."

There's lots more info on limonene if you google: limonene as an insecticide

 

[Chrondocious]

Look, I just explained in this thread why pure food grade limonene, from a glass bottle, is a safe and natural way to kill insects on flowering or non-flowering cannabis plants, when mixed in the correct dilution in water with all-natural, organic liquid soap as an emulsifier.

It's not rocket science. But as with a lot of things, if you don't know what you're doing, best not to go there.

You can stay away from it if you want, but the reasons you are giving don't make a whole lot of sense to me.

How does food grade limonene kill insects?

"...d-Limonene, an active ingredients present in the essential oil [destroys] the wax layer of the insect respiratory system so that once applied directly, the insects will suffocate."

From the EPA's sheet on limonene:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists limonene as Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) as a food additive or flavoring and a fragrance additive..."

There's lots more info on limonene if you google: limonene as an insecticide

They're confusing chemical cleaners with orange in it to essential oils. Do-terra is the brand of essentials we use and they are safe for human consumption. Idk....natural extracted essential oils or some shit Called spinosad? Or whatever people use. Id much rather use the oils.

 

[bluter]

They're confusing chemical cleaners with orange in it to essential oils. Do-terra is the brand of essentials we use and they are safe for human consumption. Idk....natural extracted essential oils or some shit Called spinosad? Or whatever people use. Id much rather use the oils.

i think it's falling into the same category as neem. neem is also restricted and can't be used as an insecticide here, and it is also a natural product. there is no rule against neem in the US at all. it flat out suffocates mites.

piles of organic based commercial products are restricted here as well, like the sns.

i'm curious if it's simply the concentration pre-dilution.

There's lots more info on limonene if you google: limonene as an insecticide

yeah i've been reading it for an hour. i had known about it's uses as a mosquito repellent.

I just explained in this thread why pure food grade limonene, from a glass bottle, is a safe and natural way to kill insects on flowering or non-flowering cannabis plants, when mixed in the correct dilution in water with all-natural, organic liquid soap as an emulsifier.

fwiw the cleaner - not the essential oil - has no other soaps or anything in it and claims to be 100% organic and biodegradable. the labelling also warns you to contact a poison control center if ingested. it has to be the level of concentration.

also i noticed the now brand orange oil here does not claim to be food grade or food safe. again, there looks like a difference in labelling.

edit : i'm gonna have a look at one at the health shop today to check.

 

[BuzzzD]

Is it OK if I just squish 'em with my thumb????!!!!????

 

[bluter]

Is it OK if I just squish 'em with my thumb????!!!!????

i'd try the sns if i could get it.

 

[cbdhemp808]

i think it's falling into the same category as neem. neem is also restricted and can't be used as an insecticide here, and it is also a natural product. there is no rule against neem in the US at all. it flat out suffocates mites.

OK, I see you are in Canada. Fyi, I don't use neem spray on my flowering plants.

yeah i've been reading it for an hour. i had known about it's uses as a mosquito repellent.

Limonene also kills mosquito larva in water. (Premix with water and liquid soap, shake well.)

fwiw the cleaner - not the essential oil - has no other soaps or anything in it and claims to be 100% organic and biodegradable. the labelling also warns you to contact a poison control center if ingested. it has to be the level of concentration.

No, I don't think it's the concentration, because 100% food grade limonene is... food grade. When they say 100% limonene, it means there's nothing else in the bottle... just limonene. The cleaner product is not manufactured to the same purity standard as food grade, so may contain contaminants.

The orange oil used as a flavoring is probably 75-95% limonene.

also i noticed the now brand orange oil here does not claim to be food grade or food safe. again, there looks like a difference in labelling.

As @Chrondocious said, there are lots of essential oils that are OK to consume in small amounts. This is called "therapeutic grade" essential oil and is very pure. (I know a guy who takes one drop of frankincense essential oil per day to treat arthritis pain. He says it works great.)

Here's what one website says, and I agree with this:

Ingesting orange oil is ONLY recommend when you're using a very high-quality, organic, “therapeutic grade”...

Granted, NOW FOODS doesn't label their orange oil as therapeutic grade, but it is very pure, cold pressed from orange peels. There's no pesticides or chemicals used in the extraction process. Now, I'm not using it in drinks or for baking, etc., ... but I might use it in a foliar spray. What I am currently using for my foliar spray is 100% pure limonene from a terpene company, sold in glass bottles.

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists limonene as Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) as a food additive or flavoring and a fragrance additive..."

 

[bluter]

Granted, NOW FOODS doesn't label their orange oil as therapeutic grade, but it is very pure, cold pressed from orange peels. There's no pesticides or chemicals used in the extraction process. Now, I'm not using it in drinks or for baking, etc., ... but I might use it in a foliar spray. What I am currently using for my foliar spray is 100% pure limonene from a terpene company, sold in glass bottles.

checked out the orange oil at the health food store local. they have a whole rack of different extracts. the orange oil and most of the offerings were that now brand. they had a few others too.

didn't really solve anything as there was nothing mentioning food grade or food safe. i asked the clerks who steadfastly said not to use it as a flavoring or ingest it, or any of the others, on the whole. it was for topical or aroma only.

that's from a store selling it as a health alternative. assuming diluted is a different story.

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists limonene as Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) as a food additive or flavoring and a fragrance additive..."

the other thing they said was keep it from cats. apparently, it can kill some cats. orange oil / limonenes are often used in pet / stain cleaners. they've killed some cats, i thought that was odd till i did a google spiral.

 

[SmokingWings]

This discussion is reminding me of a group sitting around and talking about the move Dune. Everyone knows the story-line, the events in the story, and the characters and their place in the plot. It can make for a fun discussion.

Only problem is that there were three movies based on the book Dune, each with its own director interpreting the story-line , its own list of actors playing the same characters and its own interpretation of the way the events played out.

Everyone is right as far as the movie they have seen is concerned but until everyone has seen all 3 of movies, and maybe even the movie about the movie version that was not made, it will be hard to get everyone on the same line. No one is wrong and everyone is right.

("Jodorowsky's Dune" is a documentary about the version never made.)

 

[cbdhemp808]

Everyone is right as far as the movie they have seen

Which is true of life in general, yeah?

This reminds me of the difference between "right" and "truth". When people quibble over being "right," this is often a situation of subjective interpretation of things. Whatever is "right" for person A may not be "right" for person B. In this situation, "right" becomes a condition ascribed to an individual, or a group, but not to everyone.

Truth, on the other hand, is detached from subjective association with one or a limited number of people. This can be referred to as objective truth. For example, "THC will get you high," is the truth, while person A saying, "I don't like to get high on THC," is "right" for person A. Another example: person A says, "I took drug XYZ and found it to be safe and effective", while person B says, "I got a severe reaction to drug XYZ." Now the trap is laid... person A's perception of things may be viewed by person A as the truth – as in objective truth – rather than simply what may be "right" for person A. Why is this so? It may be that person A is unaware of person B and people like person B. Or person A may be delusional, meaning they have beliefs that are contradicted by reality or rational argument. Or it may be that person A has a selfish personality and lacks empathy for others.

There's a lot of delusion and selfishness going on these days in the world, when it comes to objective truth. Humans tend to cling to "stories" that make them feel safe, happy, or ego gratified. They are susceptible to falling into the trap of "sacred truths," meaning interpretations of reality that cannot be questioned. Religion is a fertile ground for such things. So is politics.

Have I stated the truth?

 

[SmokingWings]

There's a lot of delusion and selfishness going on these days in the world, when it comes to objective truth. Humans tend to cling to "stories" that make them feel safe, happy, or ego gratified. They are susceptible to falling into the trap of "sacred truths," meaning interpretations of reality that cannot be questioned. Religion is a fertile ground for such things. So is politics.

Have I stated the truth?

A side note related to the politics and religion. I feel that the emotions and energy that has a powerful effect on some people when they those those topics is not because they want to help turn the other side to the "truth". They do not want to save the other person's soul by convincing them to come worship with them. They do not want to save the other person and their family from a government that is not in the best interest of the people.

No, they spend all that energy because they are afraid the other person might actually be correct.

Anyway, my earlier point was that everyone discussing the pluses and minuses of the essential oils, oils for the kitchen and limonene is correct and no one is wrong. Since we are all in different countries and parts of the world we can be talking about the same products but we have been influenced by how the products are portrayed. Limonene in one country can only be used for heavy duty cleaning but the other country allows it for cleaning in the house and another country allows it to be used as an insect propellant.

Everyone has seen the movie but each person saw a different way of telling the same story.

 

[bluter]

well, i was disappointed the health food store had no real information. i was kind expecting them to know of alternate uses. that is sort of their thing really.