Making RSO with Everclear and Distiller

[MotaMan420]

No arrogance here -- just wanted the knowledge. I was particularly looking for the publication of said temps and durations... I was talking low temps of distillation 172 - 176 degrees... Decarb can't be done at these temps no matter the time..

Like I said earlier --- if I don't have to babysit an oven the more the better -- I want to make my time easier and maybe make someone else's for that matter..

MotaMan

 

[Azimuth]

Decarb is a function of time and temperature, and yes, thc-a will decarb to thc even at room temperatures given enough time.

The path is cbg-a converts to all of the other cannabinoids like thc-a, cbd-a, cbc-a, etc. The part changed to thc-a will degrade to thc as it loses a carbon atom (hence decarboxylation) and then on to cbn, the sleepy time cannabinoid.

But the extensive time needed at room temperatures gives you a combination of thc-a, thc, and cbn without much control over what you get which is why the standard formulas are given for oven, sous vide, and other decarb methods.

 

[MotaMan420]

See a nice concise explanation - thank you Az - the original decarb dispute was my response to a post stating that there wasn't a need to decarb the flower prior to distillation of RSO oil - hence the oil being decarbed during the distillation process - it is this claim that I had disputed -- so , can THCA in oil be decarbed at the low distillation temp and short duration time of said distillation ? - I am saying no and Az you seem to verify my conclusion - is this what you are saying?

Happy Growing - waiting on PineApple Express and Caramel Cream to dry - I'll decarb these by incineration.

 

[gr865]

Making a 1 pound batch of oil, made in 0.5 lb batches.
0.75 lb of Dos si Dos, and the other 0.25 is a mix from previous grows.
Did a double wash and strained, now in 1.75 bottles in the freezer to settle the particulates then filter and use the distiller to make the oil.
I have another 1.5 pounds to make another batch.

 

[Azimuth]

so , can THCA in oil be decarbed at the low distillation temp and short duration time of said distillation ? - I am saying no and Az you seem to verify my conclusion - is this what you are saying?

In a word, no. But some will for sure and there are still some good medical benefits in the acidic cannabinoids that don't convert as well.

In the normal rice cooker style approach most of it does decarb because of the higher temps over the time period.

I would think you'd want to decarb the extracted oil or at least test it to see if it's fully decarbed if that's the effect you're looking for. For full decarb the oil is heated until the bubbles stop which of course also means some of the THC will have degraded into CBN. So, there's a tradeoff. You'll have mostly THC but also some of each of the others depending on time/temp.

 

[MotaMan420]

Still a rice cooker is used in the final stage and you are still distilling ( boiling the alcohol) at a low temp of 172 - 176 degrees -- so you are saying that the oil will decarb at this low temp ? .. You're using a rice cooker for the ability to have a low temp water bath for your tincture vessel so the alcohol can evaporate off leaving just the oil... if you're stating that THCA in the oil decarbs at this temp to THC - then

Where is publication that supports this ? -- as said I'd posted this question elsewhere and the answers are decarb starting at 200 degrees . Plus the final oil is heated and the bubbles indicate the final alcohol being evaporated off and that's it - after that it's pure oil. You take a tiny droplet and torch it - if it flares , alcohol is still present.

Nice references - nothing I see that can afford a definitive answer -- what is the temp of decarb -- ?? and where is the answer published ?? That simple.. I like to read - but I'm not finding what you purport.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[Azimuth]

There are lots of decarb graphs available but they mostly focus on amount of time and temps in an oven. I'll see if I can find something along the lines you're asking about.


----------
Raw Cannabis vs. Decarboxylated Cannabis

‘Raw’ cannabis is plant matter that has not been dried or cured. Once cured, a small amount of decarboxylation occurs. However, the majority takes place when the plant material is heated – or combusted – to temperatures above 200 degrees Fahrenheit. Prior to curing and decarboxylation, THC and CBD – the two most active compounds in cannabis – exist as acids (THC-A and CBD-A). These acids possess anti-inflammatory effects, similar to the types of vitamins and minerals that are found in other plant-based foods.

If you consume raw weed, use either the fan leaves or flowers that have been freshly harvested. Raw marijuana can be stored in your refrigerator just as long as other greens like kale or spinach. It is important to monitor your raw cannabis, however, because it is prone to wilting and mold. This is particularly true for tightly-packed buds that contain a high moisture content.

If left undisturbed, the active compounds in cannabis will decarboxylate over time.

However, total decarboxylation of THC-A and CBD-A in raw plant material would take years. When exposed to heat, the compounds decarboxylate instantaneously.


Decarb article

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[Azimuth]

Still a rice cooker is used in the final stage and you are still distilling ( boiling the alcohol) at a low temp of 172 - 176 degrees -- so you are saying that the oil will decarb at this low temp ?

Yes, some of it will but will take a long time to get to full decarb. Decarb's a process, not a switch.

 

[gr865]

Strained CCO wash. Going back into the freezer for a second strain prior to adding to the distiller.

Have another 2 liters to strain, so it looks like Thursday will be the distiller day.

 

[MotaMan420]

Gr it looks great -- I have yet to use the freezer to make RSO - I utilize a Magic Butter Machine and I get FECO oil after distillation - it takes everything out of the plant material. I am trying to figure a way to agitate while it is in the freezer - something akin to an old fashioned ice cream churn ...

Az -- it's ok to not to lock step with the staff. I'm a reader -- and nothing I've read substantiates your claims...nothing.

Who in his or her right mind would want to prolong a process ?? who ?? The original claim was that it was not necessary to decarb your flower when producing RSO (aka pot oil) and that the decarb process would take place during distillation of the alcohol and I said that's impossible given the low temp and short duration for evaporation and nothing you've offered states otherwise. So Az when you make RSO is your flower decarbed prior to extraction? That is if you do make RSO.

Bubbles in the final stage indicate alcohol evaporation --- not level of decarb --- where was that read Az?

As I said -- if there is a simpler process for something I am all for it -- and if you're going to intermittently interrupt your distillation process to "test" (unless you have access to testing equipment and most here do not) your oil then it would take forever and that's the point.. But evaporation temps and durations will not decarb your oil --

Happy Growing -- and Gr keep us posted

MotaMan

 

[InTheShed]

For what it's worth, I once took the lowest line (176ºF) from the skunkpharm decarb chart and extended it out. It went on for weeks (maybe months...can't recall) before coming remotely close to the 15mg/g line on the Y axis.

Decarboxylation is a chemical reaction that needs heat to break off the acid molecule in a timely manner (so that we can use it - either by setting it on fire and smoking it or using it in some other active form). You can't bake a cake at 175º no matter how long you leave it in the oven.

Hope that helps.

 

[Azimuth]

Who in his or her right mind would want to prolong a process ?? who ??

You seem to be missing my point. My point was that if you use lower temps you need to extend the time. I'm not suggesting doing that, rather that decarb is a function of both sides of the equation.

But there are medical reasons why some would want to prolong the decarb process at lower temps for longer periods, especially if the terpines and flavonoids are important. But that's a totally different process than is being discussed here.

The original claim was that it was not necessary to decarb your flower when producing RSO (aka pot oil) and that the decarb process would take place during distillation of the alcohol and I said that's impossible given the low temp and short duration for evaporation and nothing you've offered states otherwise.

I agree with you. I'm not trying to argue otherwise. Decarb will happen at room temperature, given enough time. Like months/years as Shed suggested above. But that doesn't make that an efficient extraction process.

Too low a heat for too short a time equals not much decarb.

So Az when you make RSO is your flower decarbed prior to extraction? That is if you do make RSO.

I extract into oils and do decarb the bud first.

Bubbles in the final stage indicate alcohol evaporation --- not level of decarb --- where was that read Az?

Bubbles happen from water, alcohol and the cannabinoids, but different sizes. Water ones are huge, cannabinoids tiny.

 

[gr865]

Am I missing something, what is wrong with 235 degrees for 1 hr plus. That is what I have used for yrs.
In the distiller I heat the 190 proof wash to 190 to 200 degrees F.
Just finished the batch for the picture above, after cooking the final alcohol off in the oven I got 65.5 grams of CCO.
Going to start the 2nd half of the remaining decarb'ed cannabis on Friday. Expect around 30 to 35 grams of oil from this batch.
Next batch of should be a bit more weight of oil to raw cannabis. On this batch I used mostly cannabis remnants from past grows and on this next batch it will be mostly DosSiDos and the THC level is much higher than the remnants.
Can't wait and looking forward to having around 200 plus grams if CCO to work with.

AHhh, the best Wellness meds a person can have.

 

[InTheShed]

Am I missing something, what is wrong with 235 degrees for 1 hr plus. That is what I have used for yrs.

That's about where I am for my decarb.

 

[MotaMan420]

Exactly Shed -- in relevance to baking a cake as to decarbing in final evaporation stage and temp -- no matter how long the cake is left in the oven at 175 it just "wont bake" .. It won t (meaning will not) decarb in relation to practical use of time.. any molecule will degrade over time

Az -- most here (and I may just be speaking of myself) are just plain ol users turned growers for economics sake.. I myself buy good stock seed -- stick it in the dirt and it grows , as anyone here has seen my pics , it grows pretty damn good...

Few if any here have ready access to testing facilities so we can intermittently interrupt and test our progress - most here want the most bang for his / her work -- the buzzzzz and if the side benefits help with other ailments the more the better...

Physics -- once again that pesky thing -- alcohol boils at 172-173 degrees -- water boils at 213 degrees -- The bubbles in the final stage are the alcohol -- if evaporating at lets say 180 -- the water remains water IF ANY and no bubbles.. Water cannot be converted into its gaseous state at this low temp -- Like cousin Vinnie said - PHYSICS . Everywhere I've read it is stated to keep any eye on the temp during this final stage in order not to burn the final product. Who is running his / her distiller above 200 degrees? . The absence of bubbles means no more alcohol -- where are you reading Az that these relate to the cbd cooking off ??? As of yet you haven't provided any references in print that support what you keep claiming. obviously you're referencing something from somewhere - just where is this vat of knowledge located?

Plus where is the water coming from Az? -- if using food grade alcohol , it's pure alcohol. Plus if using store bought grain alcohol eventually through the distillation process over time the water will have been removed because only the alcohol will distill off leaving the water in the final oil - if any - plus if reused it is pure alcohol.

Now the whole premise of this discussion was what was originally claimed that "there wasn't any need to decarb the flower prior to extraction" BECAUSE decarb was claimed to have occurred during the solvent recovery process and by the statements here that is not "practically" possible and the resultant oil cannot be decarbed. I can only imagine that there would be no distiller employed and the tincture be allowed to reduce due to evaporation over an exhaustingly long period of time... and that is not what was originally purported to have occurred!!!

So we all "kinda" agree - decarb the flower first

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[InTheShed]

decarb the flower first

Are you thinking it's not possible to decarb the rosin? I never was one to believe the whole bubbling-stops-decarb-done approach, but wouldn't 240º for 60 minutes (as many use for flower) work on rosin?

The flavor of oil made from decarbed flower is very different (and most say worse) than the flavor of oil made from decarbed rosin.

 

[MotaMan420]

No not at all, but as we all know heat is the enemy of THC - and heating the oil to 240 degrees for over an hour would seem to be too much attention to be paid when that time could be saved by decarbing first, and possibly burning the final product even though most plant oil starts to burn at 450. The oil I have made if ingested has a strong green taste - to some it's ok... Plus if ingesting most mask oil flavor by putting it on something like candy prior to eating... Or encapsulation - no taste, again the goal is the buzz or ailment help.

As said any molecule will degrade - decarb over time - who wants to sit and babysit anything ? The original premise was that decarb was accomplished during the DISTIALLATION stage and that is not possible - if you want to cook the oil further then yes - possibly. since this isn't "normal" practice who wants to take a chance at possibly ruining the hard work?.

But as queried of Az where is it in print (other than here) that it is suggested that one decarb the final oil as opposed to decarbing the flower beforehand ? Anything is possible -- but the discussion here is in regard to practical application..
All recipes viewed so far call for flower to be decarbed prior to any use unless immediate smoking..

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[InTheShed]

if you want to cook the oil further then yes - possibly

Not the oil, decarb the rosin before it goes into the oil. Oil acts as an insulator making it more difficult to remove the acid molecule at standard decarb times and temps.

Check out the results of the tests done halfway down the page:

How To Make Cannabis Infused Oil | Ardent Cannabis

If you've ever wanted to learn how to make cannabis infused oil, you've come to right place. We will teach you 3 ways to do it, plus give expert tips!

ardentcannabis.com

"When you add the decarbed flower into the fatty oil, the oil encapsulates the flower, acting as an insulator. That’s why it’s necessary to decarb BEFORE you infuse. The oil acting as an insulator means that you won’t get a fully activated product if you don’t decarb before the infusion process."

Decarbing the rosin will keep the resulting oil from tasting like toasted plant matter, if that matters to the end result.

 

[MotaMan420]

Thanks Shed -- and Gr how's the RSO coming along ?

MotaMan

 

[gr865]

Thanks Shed -- and Gr how's the RSO coming along ?

MotaMan

Last batch was 65 grams.
Got 0.5 lb decarbed and ready to extract.
Then I have 1.7 lb that needs to be decarbed and extracted.
Gave my buddy a 1 ml oral syringe and he did half this morning, waiting to hear a report from him.