Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Table

Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

One of the facts I used when I went with HPS was that HID lighting is (or at least was) still the most efficient effective way to convert electricity into light that is available on the market. An HPS bulb produces approximately 140 lumens per watt, and with 1000w lights you get really good penetration.

LED lighting technology seems to be making exponential gains in performance, maybe some day they will out perform HID lighting, but I don't think they are quite there yet.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

~~~UPDATE~~~ HARVEST COMPLETE

I'm not going to say anything until I have dry weights in, couple weeks probably, but all in all a successful grow I believe. There are some nice, sticky buds on both sides. I do like the Lemon Skunk, and it is not a bad strain, but after trimming this batch I have reminded myself of one of the reasons I'm letting this one go. It's not tooooooo bad, but the bud-leaf ratio could be better. Got a lot of trim, though, for some good ol' vegetable oil, and Im going to make some lemon cake with grinded down trim leaf in the badder. should be interesting. I have the buds drying in the tent they were grown in, seeing as the clones are not yet ready to make it into the flood table.

Here are some of the harvest shots:

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HPS
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LED
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Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

Nice job, Beans! Congrat's on the harvest! :welldone:
I know you're waiting on dry weights, but did you take wet weights, at all? I never do, but thought you may have considering the test.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

Twelve12 said:
Can't wait for the results! How many oz are you expecting to get each side?
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Im only hoping for at least 2 oz each side. This strain or perhaps this pheno wasnt really the highest yielder. Theyll be tasty though!

@Mr. Krip: i never take wet weights either. I wouldve but i figire it doesnt really matter anyways.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

I got excited and didn't see the "w" next to the numbers. I think based on the 30% wattage advantage of the HPS, the yield per watt will go to the LED.

@PG, I prefer the yield per foot method myself, since that is what counts in my book. How much can I yield in my space, and then how can I achieve that yield with the least amount of electrical expense.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

Fratdogg223 said:
One of the facts I used when I went with HPS was that HID lighting is (or at least was) still the most efficient effective way to convert electricity into light that is available on the market. An HPS bulb produces approximately 140 lumens per watt, and with 1000w lights you get really good penetration.
Click to expand...

The lumen argument is inherently flawed. Luminance flux (of which, the lumen is a measurement of) is heavily weighted to give more precedence to those wavelengths which are perceived by the human eye as being brightest. Those same wavelengths are among the least useful to plants.

Much of a HPS setup's output is in the ranges that are perceived by our eyes as being brighter than others (given the same level of gross output). Therefore... higher lumen number.

In terms of gross (light) output, an LED setup which consumes the same amount of electricity as a HPS setup does... is more efficient, since it produces less heat in the process (all light devices eat energy and sh!t two things, light and heat). A theoretically 100% light device would produce NO heat, but this is not possible with current technology, regardless of the type of light.

But there is more to it than just gross efficiency. A properly designed LED setup (I cannot say whether or not there are such creatures yet) would produce only light in the specific wavelengths that are useful to plants and none in those which are not. Such a light would have a low lumen output in general and very low in specific comparison to a HPS (that consumes the same amount of electricity). But it would have a far higher PAR reading.

In terms of penetration... a 1000-watt HPS may well have more penetrative ability than an LED setup that consumes the same amount of electricity. I couldn't say with any degree of certainty. The HPS has one source of light output while the LED one has many. And therefore, the HPS' one source has a large output vs. the LED's smaller output (per individual LED). Although I have an LED flashlight and have tested and found that if I cover it with several layers of cloth, that it will "shine" through more layers if I flip it to the setting that activates every individual LED than it does if I only have half of them activated - even though the output of each individual LED is the same in each case. So more LEDs does equal more penetration, it is just not clear to me how much in terms of a garden. I do not know of a formula that will take the variables of number of LEDs, their wavelengths, the output of each, the type of lens used, et cetera and give a penetration value.

One thing is for sure: Modern electronic HID ballasts are pretty efficient. Barring any extreme breakthroughs in the sodium/metal mixture in the bulbs, there won't be a great deal of improvement in the technology in the future. LED technology, in regards to lighting, is still being developed and improved upon and it would be fair to assume that wherever the level of tech is at present, it will improve significantly in the future.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

TorturedSoul said:
The lumen argument is inherently flawed. Luminance flux (of which, the lumen is a measurement of) is heavily weighted to give more precedence to those wavelengths which are perceived by the human eye as being brightest. Those same wavelengths are among the least useful to plants.

Much of a HPS setup's output is in the ranges that are perceived by our eyes as being brighter than others (given the same level of gross output). Therefore... higher lumen number.

In terms of gross (light) output, an LED setup which consumes the same amount of electricity as a HPS setup does... is more efficient, since it produces less heat in the process (all light devices eat energy and sh!t two things, light and heat). A theoretically 100% light device would produce NO heat, but this is not possible with current technology, regardless of the type of light.

But there is more to it than just gross efficiency. A properly designed LED setup (I cannot say whether or not there are such creatures yet) would produce only light in the specific wavelengths that are useful to plants and none in those which are not. Such a light would have a low lumen output in general and very low in specific comparison to a HPS (that consumes the same amount of electricity). But it would have a far higher PAR reading.

In terms of penetration... a 1000-watt HPS may well have more penetrative ability than an LED setup that consumes the same amount of electricity. I couldn't say with any degree of certainty. The HPS has one source of light output while the LED one has many. And therefore, the HPS' one source has a large output vs. the LED's smaller output (per individual LED). Although I have an LED flashlight and have tested and found that if I cover it with several layers of cloth, that it will "shine" through more layers if I flip it to the setting that activates every individual LED than it does if I only have half of them activated - even though the output of each individual LED is the same in each case. So more LEDs does equal more penetration, it is just not clear to me how much in terms of a garden. I do not know of a formula that will take the variables of number of LEDs, their wavelengths, the output of each, the type of lens used, et cetera and give a penetration value.

One thing is for sure: Modern electronic HID ballasts are pretty efficient. Barring any extreme breakthroughs in the sodium/metal mixture in the bulbs, there won't be a great deal of improvement in the technology in the future. LED technology, in regards to lighting, is still being developed and improved upon and it would be fair to assume that wherever the level of tech is at present, it will improve significantly in the future.
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You will get no argument from me about anything you've said sir! Of course I was just making a general statement about the two technologies, and you just took it to the next level! That's a good thing though...there's a lot of people reading these journals that will benefit.

I’m sure you would agree that for an indoor grower, light is almost always going to be the limiting factor, and some heat is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, heat from the sun is necessary for transpiration to occur which enables the flow of nutrients and water through the plant.

I will say that I don’t think we fully understand what wavelengths are useful and how they are used by the plants as of yet. It seems quite often whenever we think we have something figured out, mother nature shows us otherwise.

But that being said, I am merely a humble grower trying to consume as much knowledge as I can...and that's why I'm here. +Reps to you brother! :adore:
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

Fratdogg223 said:
I will say that I don’t think we fully understand what wavelengths are useful and how they are used by the plants as of yet. It seems quite often whenever we think we have something figured out, mother nature shows us otherwise.
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As a bio med grad youre 100% correct fratdogg. Its surprising but academia/scientists still have gaps in their knowledge of plant biology.

Nice harvest!
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

+reps TS for a great post.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

MB, I can't weight (pun) to hear the results!
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

What a great grow. I am very impressed that the LED's have done so well even with the 30% disadvantage. I like what TS and Steve H say about the lighting too!! It is obvious LED lights have come a long way in a few years. It is exciting that even though you are getting great results they still have a lot of room for improvement!!! In a few years, everyone might be using LED's! :goodjob:
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

:bravo: :bravo: Nice work MB on the harvest! They look even better with you holding them knowing soon enough you will be enjoying the fruits of your labor. I look forward to hearing the weigh in, but more importantly if there is any quality difference in smoke between the two lights, of course they will both be great I'm sure. But will one have a slight advantage? To me that would be the difference maker to justify cost of an led. Since were familiar with dealing with the heat anyway and still getting good meds. Well I'm still working on the good quality part, but mine is still better than typical bagseed. :) Enjoy your frost nuggets look forward to seeing more! :welldone::Namaste:
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

Great work MB! Good topic to challenge. Cant wait to read the results. I defiantley like the form of those buds under the LED.
 
Re: Magic Beans' Advanced LED Diamond Series 200w VS. 250w HPS - Lemon Skunk Flood Ta

what a lovely harvest you have there. I can't wait for the final weight. I don't know if you stated this before but where is your lemon skunk from?

@TS:

That was a very elaborate breakdown of both lights. Very informative indeed!:adore:
 
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