Low light issue

Seeing the light helps a lot. 6700K is deep into the blue spectrum, exactly what you need for veg. 96 wats of T12 will cover the minimum requirements for 4 square foot. Anything less it will start to get lanky. That spectrum works well for veg but not ideal for flower production. So it will suit your need to revege just fine. The bulbs being so close together is making an intense light hot spot. 12 inches should work better with that bulb arrangement in veg.

Always interesting watching the plant turn into a mutant as it revegs.
 
SmokingWings said:
The photos do look like small auto-flowers but according to msg #8 the seeds were photo-period. Some of the other msgs give the impression that the lower electrical lighting levels and being in a window with autumn approaching caused them to start flowering as soon as the plants became mature enough.
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They truly appear not to be mature enough, if they are photos. If they were just getting light from the window, and they are indeed photos, then it's possible they could be flowering photos. Any full spectrum artificial light during the natural dark hours would keep them from flowering.

SmokingWings said:
I am thinking that if the plants are to go back to a vegetative stage it will take some stronger light levels than what the Coralife aquarium light will be able to provide. Might have to put under a 20 hours on and 4 off schedule.
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If they are photos, only a low wattage full spectrum LED bulb would be required to go on briefly in the middle of the night, to keep them in veg. This is called "night interruption" (formerly known as gas lamp), and this is what I use in my veg house.
 
parnelli said:
One of the plants is starting to re-veg (the white bloom at the top of the plant is turning green and leaves are sprouting around it). At least I've seemed to turn a corner. Thanks folks!
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👍 Please post another photo for us.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
If they are photos, only a low wattage full spectrum LED bulb would be required to go on briefly in the middle of the night, to keep them in veg. This is called "night interruption" (formerly known as gas lamp), and this is what I use in my veg house.
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I used the 'gas lamp routine' for 5-6 years as a way to keep the plants from going into flower.

At times I would have to bring in a plant from outside and it would already be just starting into flower. The fastest way to stop and get it to revert back was strong light. The gas lamp method would work but I was looking for quickly getting the plant back to a regular vegetative state that would match the rest of the plants.
 
SmokingWings said:
The photos do look like small auto-flowers but according to msg #8 the seeds were photo-period. Some of the other msgs give the impression that the lower electrical lighting levels and being in a window with autumn approaching caused them to start flowering as soon as the plants became mature enough.

I am thinking that if the plants are to go back to a vegetative stage it will take some stronger light levels than what the Coralife aquarium light will be able to provide. Might have to put under a 20 hours on and 4 off schedule.
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NO - plant will not go back to veg -this is because of their genetics make-up - nothing can change it ( as stated more or less light means nothing in re-guards to veg/flower stage The only difference will be in your yields in relation to your light cycle consider using this light schedule use 18/6 for both veg and flower Please sit back and watch the magic !!! of nature
 
safeman said:
NO - plant will not go back to veg -this is because of their genetics make-up - nothing can change it ( as stated more or less light means nothing in re-guards to veg/flower stage The only difference will be in your yields in relation to your light cycle consider using this light schedule use 18/6 for both veg and flower Please sit back and watch the magic !!! of nature
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This is not an auto flower plant. The only mention of auto was was the question "Is this photo or auto?" Answered "I am not sure" then "it is starting to grow new veg". It has to be a photo type.

I assume your saying it can not reveg, was because you were thinking it was a auto. The only plant you can't ever reveg is a pure ruderalis. A ruderalis hybridized with an Indica or sativa ( AKA auto flower ) has a low chance of reveg. Much like a feminized seed can rarely growing into a male. Recessive genetics popping up. If there is no ruderalis in it's lineage (AKA photo) you can reveg at any time. I taking cuttings to clone and reveg 5 weeks after 12/12 several times a year. Slows down the veg side of my perpetual garden or when someone asks for a plant but I don't have a spare. Also entertaining to give a new grower a reveging plant. "No,, they always look like this when young..." 😆
 
safeman said:
NO - plant will not go back to veg -this is because of their genetics make-up - nothing can change it ( as stated more or less light means nothing in re-guards to veg/flower stage The only difference will be in your yields in relation to your light cycle consider using this light schedule use 18/6 for both veg and flower Please sit back and watch the magic !!! of nature
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The little plant shown in the photo in the opening msg does look like it could have been an "auto-flower" that did not grow to a large size before the bud started forming.

But, in message #8 the original poster mentions that it is a photo-period plant. Then in msg #20 he mentions that it looks like his plant has started to revert back to a pre-flowering stage which a photo-period can do.
 
SmokingWings said:
But, in message #8 the original poster mentions that it is a photo-period plant. Then in msg #20 he mentions that it looks like his plant has started to revert back to a pre-flowering stage which a photo-period can do.
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Yeah, but I think we should see a new photo of the plant to be sure of this. I think the evidence is leaning more toward it being a mislabeled auto.
 
After the aquarium lamp debacle :p I got a hold of a grow light. The lamp is rigged up in a makeshift grow tent (shown open so you can see the plants) that I've insulated the best I can with what I've got, and it seems to be working. I'll post close-up pix of the two white widows that had flowered so you can see the progress. The two WW's are now about 9 inches from the bottom of the lamp. Three other plants (2 Dama Blanca & 1 Maui Wowee) are doing well and showing growth.

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SmokingWings said:
I used the 'gas lamp routine' for 5-6 years as a way to keep the plants from going into flower.

At times I would have to bring in a plant from outside and it would already be just starting into flower. The fastest way to stop and get it to revert back was strong light. The gas lamp method would work but I was looking for quickly getting the plant back to a regular vegetative state that would match the rest of the plants.
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Do you mean an outside plant that wasn't exposed to night interruption lighting?

The mechanism in the plant responsible for the transition either way is the phytochrome flowering hormone. Only a brief flash of bright light in a specific part of the red spectrum is needed to reset the hormone. All parts of the plant need to get the flash. If the plant was already starting to flower, and you're trying to return it to veg more quickly, then continuous light or more flashes during the dark period would help; however, I don't think brighter light would help. I'm using 13w daylight spectrum LED bulbs.
 
I'm using an incandescent lamp for heat just below the plants. Since the aquarium light produces predominately blue light I think I'll rig it up along with the grow light - it will add additional heat because it has cooling fans which I can vent into the tent to get the temp up as well. I'll also turn the lights on during the dark period again. I'm awake at 2AM anyway so I might as well give it a shot.
 
If the first light was burning leaf tips be careful with the second one. The first, 6000K is veg spectrum with 96wats spread over the length of the bulbs. New light, 2000K is flowering spectrum with 180wat all from one smaller area. Blue light creates bushy plants while red creates bigger buds. Both are more than adequate to reveg.

Gibberellin flowering hormones are produced during the dark cycle. Auxin growth hormones are produced during light cycle. The ratio between the two determines veg or flower. Roughly 25-40wats per square foot of fluorescents is the grow range. 15wats or equivalent sun light, is the minimum for auxin production. When light hits the leaf auxins are at full production. Gibberellin takes time to slowly accelerate up to full production. Hitting them with light mid dark period stops gibberellin production. Returning to dark makes it slowly build up production all over again. So, 15wat or more equivalent day, and no more than 8 hours uninterrupted night would balance to veg.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Do you mean an outside plant that wasn't exposed to night interruption lighting?
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Sometimes. Other times a plant that started to go into flower for one reason or another while in the basement room.

The fastest way to get it to revert back to a vegetative stage is to increase the light level. I am not talking about more hours of light but pushing the quality of light to max. Sort of along the lines of the "light inverse square law" involving moving the plant to as close to the light as possible.

None of the keep it 18 to 20 inches away to avoid leaf burn. Move the lights down or move the plant up but push the conditions so the plant gets as much light as is available.
 
Sativa1970 said:
Gibberellin flowering hormones are produced during the dark cycle. Auxin growth hormones are produced during light cycle.
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Not to be confused with phytochrome red (Pr) and phytochrome far red (Pfr), which are the hormones that control/initiate flowering. Pr and Pfr are the two inter-convertible forms of phytochrome.

gibberellin - any of a group of plant hormones that stimulate stem elongation, germination, and flowering.

auxin - a plant hormone which causes the elongation of cells in shoots and is involved in regulating plant growth.

"Auxin is produced in a plant throughout the day and night, but its production and activity are regulated by the circadian rhythm, meaning its levels can fluctuate depending on the time of day, with peak sensitivity often observed in the early morning hours; essentially, auxin production is not strictly limited to either day or night, but its signaling and response can be influenced by light conditions."

Gibberellin flowering hormones are produced during the dark cycle. Auxin growth hormones are produced during light cycle. The ratio between the two determines veg or flower. The ratio between the two determines veg or flower.
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Pr and Pfr determine veg or flower. If you want to shut down flowering that's already happening, then yes, more light during the dark period would shut down gibberellin production.

Pr is the form that's present and needed during flowering, and during the night hours Pfr is automatically converted to Pr. "If this process is interrupted by a flash of 666nm light, the Pr is immediately converted to Pfr and the night's work is undone." — Ed Rosenthal, Marijuana Grower's Handbook

Sativa1970 said:
The first, 6000K is veg spectrum with 96wats spread over the length of the bulbs. New light, 2000K is flowering spectrum with 180wat all from one smaller area. Blue light creates bushy plants while red creates bigger buds. Both are more than adequate to reveg.
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Blue light is 400-500nm, which does not prevent flowering. You need the red part of the spectrum, 640-680nm (specifically, 666nm).

6000K - fluorescent
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5000K - daylight spectrum LED
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SmokingWings said:
The fastest way to get it to revert back to a vegetative stage is to increase the light level. I am not talking about more hours of light but pushing the quality of light to max. Sort of along the lines of the "light inverse square law" involving moving the plant to as close to the light as possible.
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The length of the dark period is the only thing that determines flowering or not flowering, for photoperiod plants. For example, let's say you've got a mature indica or sativa hybrid that was outdoors under natural light, and at that particular time of the year the night length was 10.5 hours. After a few days at this night length, the plant would enter the flowering stage. If you were to bring the plant indoors under high-wattage LEDs, and maintain the 10.5 dark period, the plant would continue to flower normally. If you then changed the dark period to 9 hours, the plant would start to reveg. If you further shortened or eliminated the dark period, this would shut down flowering faster.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
If you then changed the dark period to 9 hours, the plant would start to reveg. If you further shortened or eliminated the dark period, this would shut down flowering faster.
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I understand where you are going with this but I still feel that if I were to increase the quality of light by moving the light closer to the plant it speeds up the whole process. Again, the "inverse square law" for lighting distance.
 
SmokingWings said:
I understand where you are going with this but I still feel that if I were to increase the quality of light by moving the light closer to the plant it speeds up the whole process. Again, the "inverse square law" for lighting distance.
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Under what light regimen?
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Under what light regimen?
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As long as the photo-period meets the minimum to stop flowering. Why wait 4 weeks for the transition if moving the light closer to the plant speeds it up so it is over with in 15 days.

Way to many growers, and especially new ones, are worried about hurting their "girls" so they avoid what they think is stress even though the end result is the same.

We are both talking about the same thing, just we each have our way of getting there.

When I first started looking at the on-line community and their growing of Cannabis I would be one of the few who kept saying that it was the length of the dark or low light period that induced the hormones that caused flowering. Most of the crowd kept saying it was the length of the lights on period that was the most important. Look back at the discussions on how to shorten the flowering time from start to finish without paying attention to just how long the plant was in a continuous dark period where it could produce the hormones needed.
 
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