Looking for the best LED for a grow tent 4x4

[No Pain]

The problem with looking into leds is that there is a lot of information and there is a lot of contradictory information and misinformation. That in itself makes it difficult for us the consumer and im not even bringing up light wars between manufactures. Here are some quick facts and some based on my experience.

Green light is safe and used to look and tend to our plants when they are in the dark cycle as it does not disturb them.

You can grow plants under lights that are spectrum specific (blue,red)

The sun is the best light for growing .

When you look at growing a plant under artificial light its not just about the spectrum ,its also about its intensity and the saturation of chlorophyll A and B sectors within the spectrum.

I have grown under tube Fluorescents, HID' ,Spectrum Specific LEDS and Full Spectrum LEDS . I have grown for 12 years.

I can easily say that the Best results I have had Came for the Full Spectrum LEDS that I used today. By results im talking about overall plant health and growth as well as quality and yield.

We all know that when it comes to HID's that Gavita is the front runner , Now we as a community when it comes to LEDS and spectrum if Full Spectrum LEDS where not the best to use , Why would Gavita be marketing a low profile full spectrum light for growers?

Now to me and I'm not advertising ,I'm simply stating my opinion based on my own experience. Spectrum King is to LEDS what Gavita is to HID's.

 

[Emilya Green]

I would love to see a side by side of a modern high intensity red/blue LED against a full spectrum. I am not sure that test has been done yet. I am convinced that parts of the red and blue are each used in each phase of the growth and maximum growth might need a combination of the two. My argument is that the green part of the white light, is totally unused, so maybe instead of 60% inefficient, let's call it 30%. Is the sun actually the best light spectrum for all plants? In the aggregate I would agree, but I think we can find inefficiency there too. It certainly is brighter.

 

[No Pain]

I would love to see a side by side of a modern high intensity red/blue LED against a full spectrum. I am not sure that test has been done yet. I am convinced that parts of the red and blue are each used in each phase of the growth and maximum growth might need a combination of the two. My argument is that the green part of the white light, is totally unused, so maybe instead of 60% inefficient, let's call it 30%. Is the sun actually the best light spectrum for all plants? In the aggregate I would agree, but I think we can find inefficiency there too. It certainly is brighter.

I agree the Green is unused by our ladies ,that's why we use it in the dark cycle(I believe you have also Stated that)

as far as a side by side all i can give you is from things past to things present that are of comparable size and I can also tell you that I am a detail nut meaning I use a par and lux meter along with the plant/strains response to set my lamp heights.

now these two photos are taken precisely around the same time during the flowering stage believe it or not and the grid /scrog in the spectrum specific pic is about a foot shorter.

one other thing I can tell you is the under the full spectrum leds the plants / stalks where SOLID and I mean solid like a tree no exaggeration and they smelt similar to the flowers even when dry.

 

[Emilya Green]

I might be a believer after my run with these Vander 3000 full spectrum lights... I certainly have some solid plants in hyperdrive.

 

[No Pain]

full spectrum is the way to go in LEDS ...I favor Spectrum King , I am not familiar with vader 3000 but I am familiar with the difference a good full spectrum lamp can produce. here are a couple pics when these ladies where getting close to finishing and yes its the same cola and yes that is a 2 liter bottle !

 

[Emilya Green]

nice... I am coming from the HID world... I want to be impressed.
I just think the 6 big green leds in the middle of the thing are silly. The UVA and the IR scared me, but I think that might be what is causing the extra... especially the full time UVA

 

[No Pain]

nice... I am coming from the HID world... I want to be impressed.
I just think the 6 big green leds in the middle of the thing are silly. The UVA and the IR scared me, but I think that might be what is causing the extra... especially the full time UVA

If you are coming from the HID world to LEDS and want to be impressed then you are on the right track with Full Spectrum LEDS! I will also tell you that after my initial experience with the spectrum specific LEDS I almost went back to HID's but something told me to keep researching and that is how I found what I use today ..

I am not sure what you are referring to when you said "the 6 big green leds" I must have missed that post .

Do you use a lux or par meter ?

 

[Emilya Green]

dont have a meter, but understand at the distance I am at I have around 500 par. These lights have 6 big green LEDs on the panel with all the red and blue lights... it sort of balances out the light to look almost white in veg... except it looks pinkish under my camera. But when I hit the bloom switch it really goes red. In addition to that it has a couple of uv and ir diodes too, and then showing all that on the chart, they call it full spectrum. It is not white by any means, but it does seem powerful.

 

[No Pain]

dont have a meter, but understand at the distance I am at I have around 500 par. These lights have 6 big green LEDs on the panel with all the red and blue lights... it sort of balances out the light to look almost white in veg... except it looks pinkish under my camera. But when I hit the bloom switch it really goes red. In addition to that it has a couple of uv and ir diodes too, and then showing all that on the chart, they call it full spectrum. It is not white by any means, but it does seem powerful.

gotcha … well since you don't have a meter I wont get into that.

okay so your lights ..im understanding now they are labeled full spectrum because they have bits of the entire spectrum but they are blue and red dominant . well I cant say that you will be completely impressed with that style coming from the HID world. I can tell you that in the beginning with my spectrum specific lamps the plants seems to love them in veg ...when it came to flowering it seemed to flatline and took my ladies weeks longer to finish by weeks I mean like 4-6 ! I harvest by Trich color. in my research I had found a statement that made all the sense in the world to me ..to much of the red spectrum during flowering can stall your plants/put them into sort of a hibernation mode and that is exactly what I was seeing.

I will add that if you have less than impressive results with the led that you are using ..I would beg you to try a lamp from the manufacture of mine before throwing in the LED towel.

 

[Emilya Green]

So far so good... very rapid flip, stretch very manageable and now crazy big buds for just over 2 weeks in... So far I am impressed.

 

[No Pain]

So far so good... very rapid flip, stretch very manageable and now crazy big buds for just over 2 weeks in... So far I am impressed.

I hope that your success continues ...when mine flattened out with that style of light was the later part of flowering ..but there was also almost a two week delay in seeing buds from the time of flip to 12/12 and with the ones I have now it was pretty much instant change when flipping to 12/12 (a huge surprise).

 

[Mj76]

This opened my mind

 

[Emilya Green]

I hope that your success continues ...when mine flattened out with that style of light was the later part of flowering ..but there was also almost a two week delay in seeing buds from the time of flip to 12/12 and with the ones I have now it was pretty much instant change when flipping to 12/12 (a huge surprise).

I think we still have a lot to learn about what light the plants want/need. I am convinced that tuning the light to those needs is the way to go. I have confidence in the science behind the lights that I have purchased and did my research before investing in them. I am out to prove that if the science is in place, it doesn't take an expensive brand name or tons of money to grow great weed. I am just as convinced that green light, or the green part of the white light, is wasted energy when growing plants. The lights that I have, have made a joke of the green lights, putting in 6 large green LEDs and driving them harder than the rest, so as to even out the spectrum and allow it to compete in the marketplace with the white lights. They and I know they are worthless for growing, so that is why there are only 6 of them out of 320 or so... it is a marketing gimmick.
Unless the manufacturer of these lights is flat out lying about their spectrum, I like what I see. As I said, the IR scared me, but they claim to see a benefit to it, so I bought in. I have already done experiments with UV, but never tried running it full time, so I was open to that idea too. I was impressed with the mix of the red and deep red in these lights too, and it looked possible that they indeed would produce strong, short plants. I bought one of their smaller lights as a test and to check their claims of wattage and how hard they were driving their lamps, and to see how my plants in veg responded. All was as advertised, and it was clear that their policy was to run the LEDs at 10% of full load to reduce heat and increase lifespan. When they finally ramped up to a product that was pulling 360 watts from the wall in flower, I jumped in.
My two lights with 500-800 PAR 20in-12in, are producing in its footprint the equivalent of at least a 600w HID bulb, probably a lot more. I have two in a 2x4 tent. I see no reason to doubt the power of these lights or expect any sort of flattening out in late flower. The beauty of this is that these lights cost less than $120 apiece and the little 100w one that I started with, cost $89. The price point is dropping out on this technology my friends, and I am out to prove that you can buy excellent grow lights, for cheap. So far, I am convinced that I am right and my current grow is proving so. I don't think you need white light, brand names or have to spend a lot of money to make this work.

 

[No Pain]

I think we still have a lot to learn about what light the plants want/need. I am convinced that tuning the light to those needs is the way to go. I have confidence in the science behind the lights that I have purchased and did my research before investing in them. I am out to prove that if the science is in place, it doesn't take an expensive brand name or tons of money to grow great weed. I am just as convinced that green light, or the green part of the white light, is wasted energy when growing plants. The lights that I have, have made a joke of the green lights, putting in 6 large green LEDs and driving them harder than the rest, so as to even out the spectrum and allow it to compete in the marketplace with the white lights. They and I know they are worthless for growing, so that is why there are only 6 of them out of 320 or so... it is a marketing gimmick.
Unless the manufacturer of these lights is flat out lying about their spectrum, I like what I see. As I said, the IR scared me, but they claim to see a benefit to it, so I bought in. I have already done experiments with UV, but never tried running it full time, so I was open to that idea too. I was impressed with the mix of the red and deep red in these lights too, and it looked possible that they indeed would produce strong, short plants. I bought one of their smaller lights as a test and to check their claims of wattage and how hard they were driving their lamps, and to see how my plants in veg responded. All was as advertised, and it was clear that their policy was to run the LEDs at 10% of full load to reduce heat and increase lifespan. When they finally ramped up to a product that was pulling 360 watts from the wall in flower, I jumped in.
My two lights with 500-800 PAR 20in-12in, are producing in its footprint the equivalent of at least a 600w HID bulb, probably a lot more. I have two in a 2x4 tent. I see no reason to doubt the power of these lights or expect any sort of flattening out in late flower. The beauty of this is that these lights cost less than $120 apiece and the little 100w one that I started with, cost $89. The price point is dropping out on this technology my friends, and I am out to prove that you can buy excellent grow lights, for cheap. So far, I am convinced that I am right and my current grow is proving so. I don't think you need white light, brand names or have to spend a lot of money to make this work.

We both have the same mode of thinking. can it be done ...yes the grow log in my signature proves that ..all the previous lights I used where 600watt equivalent pulling around 320 from the wall . I also did my research and felt the same way in regards to growth and part of what steered me in the direction the lights I used was cost . The previous lamps that I used had all the necessary parts of the spectrum required for plant growth plus uv , uvb & ir. You are right to be concerned about the uv sector as we all know its why we put on sunscreen when we go to the beach. I to firmly believed in the science and that's is one thing that led me to keep digging into the led scene when I was seeing some very puzzling/troubling things.

Will you have the same results as I did harvesting with the same criteria (20 percent amber trichomes) ? I can't say yes or no. All I can do is tell you that with my experience as a grower and this style lamp from seeding through veg and the beginning of flower the plants really looked like they where digging these spectrum specific lamps. The tent in my grow log is also 2x4 and I also used two of these 600w equivalents it was my first run with them . It was the only time I ever pulled anything prior to 20 percent amber ..if you look through the log you will see that , I can also tell you that they where pulled 2 1/2 weeks later than usual . My second and last run with this style lamp I decided to let things go until I had the amber that I was looking for and that's when I started to see strangeness and began to get puzzled ….I will attach a photo it doesn't look pretty due to some dry leaves and the growth is wispy but it is a sativa pheno (blue dream) that photo and get ready because this is going to boggle your mind that pic is at week 22 in flower ….yes week 22 and I had been running straight water in my hydro system for 2 weeks !! How is that possible , first of all at 22 weeks all the trichomes should be carmel if not sold brown, second how is it even alive with no food for two weeks and still have green fan leaves . The answer is hibernation , its the only scientific term that would account for what I was seeing .

Now some interesting things that I discovered about the full spectrum light I currently use that pertain to science . As I stated I'm a detail guy . I documented the entire grow for myself and was communicating with the manufacture. I will tell you that I did not use the lights as recommended , I used their recommendation as a baseline and used my plants and meters to guide me the rest of the way .. now when you hear a full spectrum light manufacture tell you that there isn't a meter that truly measures their lamp and its capabilities , their telling the truth and im getting ready to show and tell . Now based on science and materials we will find on lux and par you will find that for decent vegetative growth you need 300 par and anywhere from 15-40k lux with 15k providing you with sparse looking / stretched lengthy cannabis. Here comes the surprise ! I received high quality vegetative growth with a lux and par reading rated for seedlings with these lamps! I couldn't believe what I was seeing and thought to myself just like you said " we still have a lot to learn when it comes to LEDS and growing with them). The other thing that I noticed was growth two feet below the canopy was good and solid and not larfy like growth directly under the canopy with the prior lamps I had used . This lead to understand more science in relation to our plants respectively chlorophyll A and B and terms like chloroplast .

I share this Knowledge and experience simply because I wish I would have read or come across something similar in all the research that I had don't prior to purchasing 6 600watt spectrum specific equivalents that now sit in my attic. Instead all that was there was what spectrums you need , par this , umole that and my light is better than theirs and no they are lying mine is better , no they are both full of crap its mine you need. When knowing what I know today I would have been better off investing the same amount of money that I spent on those 6 and purchased 4-5 of the small units from the manufacture that I use today Spectrum King, my eyes also would have thanked me for doing so. lol

hope you enjoyed the long read ..and if you think this is long you should see the review I wrote on the lights ..lol its like 3 pages .

 

[Emilya Green]

We both have the same mode of thinking. can it be done ...yes the grow log in my signature proves that ..all the previous lights I used where 600watt equivalent pulling around 320 from the wall . I also did my research and felt the same way in regards to growth and part of what steered me in the direction the lights I used was cost . The previous lamps that I used had all the necessary parts of the spectrum required for plant growth plus uv , uvb & ir. You are right to be concerned about the uv sector as we all know its why we put on sunscreen when we go to the beach. I to firmly believed in the science and that's is one thing that led me to keep digging into the led scene when I was seeing some very puzzling/troubling things.

Will you have the same results as I did harvesting with the same criteria (20 percent amber trichomes) ? I can't say yes or no. All I can do is tell you that with my experience as a grower and this style lamp from seeding through veg and the beginning of flower the plants really looked like they where digging these spectrum specific lamps. The tent in my grow log is also 2x4 and I also used two of these 600w equivalents it was my first run with them . It was the only time I ever pulled anything prior to 20 percent amber ..if you look through the log you will see that , I can also tell you that they where pulled 2 1/2 weeks later than usual . My second and last run with this style lamp I decided to let things go until I had the amber that I was looking for and that's when I started to see strangeness and began to get puzzled ….I will attach a photo it doesn't look pretty due to some dry leaves and the growth is wispy but it is a sativa pheno (blue dream) that photo and get ready because this is going to boggle your mind that pic is at week 22 in flower ….yes week 22 and I had been running straight water in my hydro system for 2 weeks !! How is that possible , first of all at 22 weeks all the trichomes should be carmel if not sold brown, second how is it even alive with no food for two weeks and still have green fan leaves . The answer is hibernation , its the only scientific term that would account for what I was seeing .

Now some interesting things that I discovered about the full spectrum light I currently use that pertain to science . As I stated I'm a detail guy . I documented the entire grow for myself and was communicating with the manufacture. I will tell you that I did not use the lights as recommended , I used their recommendation as a baseline and used my plants and meters to guide me the rest of the way .. now when you hear a full spectrum light manufacture tell you that there isn't a meter that truly measures their lamp and its capabilities , their telling the truth and im getting ready to show and tell . Now based on science and materials we will find on lux and par you will find that for decent vegetative growth you need 300 par and anywhere from 15-40k lux with 15k providing you with sparse looking / stretched lengthy cannabis. Here comes the surprise ! I received high quality vegetative growth with a lux and par reading rated for seedlings with these lamps! I couldn't believe what I was seeing and thought to myself just like you said " we still have a lot to learn when it comes to LEDS and growing with them). The other thing that I noticed was growth two feet below the canopy was good and solid and not larfy like growth directly under the canopy with the prior lamps I had used . This lead to understand more science in relation to our plants respectively chlorophyll A and B and terms like chloroplast .

I share this Knowledge and experience simply because I wish I would have read or come across something similar in all the research that I had don't prior to purchasing 6 600watt spectrum specific equivalents that now sit in my attic. Instead all that was there was what spectrums you need , par this , umole that and my light is better than theirs and no they are lying mine is better , no they are both full of crap its mine you need. When knowing what I know today I would have been better off investing the same amount of money that I spent on those 6 and purchased 4-5 of the small units from the manufacture that I use today Spectrum King, my eyes also would have thanked me for doing so. lol

hope you enjoyed the long read ..and if you think this is long you should see the review I wrote on the lights ..lol its like 3 pages .

Loved your discussion on this and while reading it I realized that you might be onto something, having done more research as a multi product purchaser than I did to make your decision. There is indeed something that I was giving up by compromising with these cheaper lights, that are only trying to approximate what yours have achieved.
It is clear looking at the spectrum put out by the Spectrum King lights that they are superior to what I have, putting out a lot of spectrum between the blues and the reds that I have. Your lights create much more light blues and yellows that I do not have much of. I have neglected to consider that this part of the spectrum might also be valuable in my rush to accept the compromises that I have made, and your long discussion and results convinced me to accept this. I knew there were better lights out there, maybe not at this price, but your lights show what it means to be better.
Now that you have me thinking with a little more open eyes, I am concerned about your earlier comments about there being a lack of something needed in the light toward the end with traditional LED. My lights indeed have peaks at the chlorophyll A and B points and claim to be superior because they are full spectrum, but I can see now that they are only approximating what yours are doing with the addition of these green, uv and ir lights.
If I understand you correctly, I am concerned about the quality that they will finish out with using these lights and will be very critical of this harvest now that I know what to look for. Just how bad did those trichomes look with the non full spectrum lights? Hopefully these green lights in mine that allow them to claim full spectrum are at least providing a minimum of what is needed, but my oh my am I impressed with that spectrum chart of your lights!

 

[No Pain]

Loved your discussion on this and while reading it I realized that you might be onto something, having done more research as a multi product purchaser than I did to make your decision. There is indeed something that I was giving up by compromising with these cheaper lights, that are only trying to approximate what yours have achieved.
It is clear looking at the spectrum put out by the Spectrum King lights that they are superior to what I have, putting out a lot of spectrum between the blues and the reds that I have. Your lights create much more light blues and yellows that I do not have much of. I have neglected to consider that this part of the spectrum might also be valuable in my rush to accept the compromises that I have made, and your long discussion and results convinced me to accept this. I knew there were better lights out there, maybe not at this price, but your lights show what it means to be better.
Now that you have me thinking with a little more open eyes, I am concerned about your earlier comments about there being a lack of something needed in the light toward the end with traditional LED. My lights indeed have peaks at the chlorophyll A and B points and claim to be superior because they are full spectrum, but I can see now that they are only approximating what yours are doing with the addition of these green, uv and ir lights.
If I understand you correctly, I am concerned about the quality that they will finish out with using these lights and will be very critical of this harvest now that I know what to look for. Just how bad did those trichomes look with the non full spectrum lights? Hopefully these green lights in mine that allow them to claim full spectrum are at least providing a minimum of what is needed, but my oh my am I impressed with that spectrum chart of your lights!

Thank you for the compliment/compliments. Some of what you just stated is where I was at and how I felt when I found the knowledge that I now have and I paid for it through time and money. That experience and the passion I have for spreading positive and informative knowledge onto others gave me the ability /knowledge base to state all that I have to this point .
when I purchased the spectrum specific lamps I felt the same way that yeah sure there are betters out there , but these have everything that I require in spectrum uv,ir and par ratings and they are CHEAPER not to mention they where a best seller . so just know that you are not alone and I truly believe that me and you aren't the only ones that have fallen or will fall into what we are discussing . thus the extreme details of my experience as I feel that anyone reading what I have posted can make a true informed decision on such a controversial subject.

Now I do know that some spectrum specific light companies started putting other parts of the spectrum in there lamps . Was it due to things that I found in the later stages or was it to advertise there lamps as full spectrum because they know that's where the money is at? unfortunately I cannot answer that . but I can say when you are looking at one of those lamps that "Full Spectrum" is more appealing to a consumer than a lamp that doesn't state that .

I am glad that you have been positively impacted by my findings and through the information that I have shared . To answer your question on the trichomes . They would just never amber ,they stayed clear to partly cloudy . originally(first grow) I thought that it was just because the plants where so healthy as you can find readings that state really healthy plants don't always amber up quickly . I knew these strains did go amber and I didn't realize what was truly going on until my second run with these lamps and being stubborn enough to not settle /harvest until my amber requirements had been met. In that moment I learned what I never knew/thought was possible ..cannabis hibernation.

in regards to the spectrum of the Spectrum King lights that I use. I agree its impressive but don't just look at the colors look and the intensity in every spectrum as well as the almost complete saturation in the chlorophyll A and B sectors...to me that is the reason I can achieve the growth at the lux and par readings that I demonstrated as well as the level and quality of flower formation below the top of the canopy.

with that knowledge if you in your venture you decide to switch over to "complete full spectrum leds" and decide to go with Spectrum King . I would tell you that you could expect great results with a closet case in your 2x4 tents and awesome ones with two . You see like I said I use manufacture guidelines as a base line . for the core area that I was covering no more than two of the 402's I used where recommended . I Used 3 but tiered their use meaning in early veg like you see in my prior photo I only used one …...in later veg about 2 weeks before flipping to 12/12 I used 2 and after the first week of 12/12 I used all three..with a custom spacing and distance from the plants using the tools that I knew didn't fully measure these lamps but that's what I had available and they gave me a good guideline .

I was truly impressed with what I was able to do with this product and I feel that I even amazed the manufacture with what I had done/accomplished with their product. I say that because I was involved in a contest that they held called the growers challenge and I won first prize ! What you need to understand is I had full confidence in there product when I purchased it as it was my quest for answers that lead me to them and not an advertisement ,my costly experience so to speak. If you care to watch the video about the challenge you can search it on youtube search "2018 growers challenge" and it should populate the winners video for 2018. In my opinion I would not be doing doing anyone any justice if I didn't share my LED experience and if a winner of a contest of a product cannot spread the truth as they have seen it , who can or should ?

 

[Emilya Green]

in regards to the spectrum of the Spectrum King lights that I use. I agree its impressive but don't just look at the colors look and the intensity in every spectrum as well as the almost complete saturation in the chlorophyll A and B sectors...

That is what struck me... except in the light blue section, that light comes closer than any other I have seen of mimicking the sun, within its range of course.

 

[No Pain]

That is what struck me... except in the light blue section, that light comes closer than any other I have seen of mimicking the sun, within its range of course.

To the best of my knowledge their spectrum is the broadest and most intense not to mention the closest thing I have seen to the suns spectrum.

 

[JoeHawkins]

Hey grow community! I’m looking to get a better light for my 4x4 tent. Right now I have a LED 600w light I got off amazon. Works good, but I only get 2-3oz each lady. Was told to step my light game up to get like 10oz a lady. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I too run a light from Amazon and, it does „ok‘ish„
I’ve come to the conclusion, from reading and talking to locals, that „the best“ isn’t the best for all. In a small tent like a 4x4, which is incidentally what I use, you have height restrictions and a lot of people also have restrictions in ventilation. For example, air that’s exhausted needs to be replenished in the building. I had to do changes to my hvac system because my water heater would gas into the house when I run my exhaust at a high velocity. So heat management and all that, plays a role.
My new light will be customized for exactly my needs. It will be extremely thin and cool running do to restrictions in hight and ventilation.
Issues you might not have in your location.

 

[TheFertilizer]

First, let me make it clear that I am a dudette.
Second, you are just flat out wrong. It is well known in the cannabis world that our plants ignore green light. We can turn on green lights and spend as much time as we want in the grow room at night, and the plants do not stop blooming.

Isn't that more a result of there being no infared light to affect phytochrome levels? Presumably, a blue light with no red spectrum would do the same.