But have you actually used them? There is a lot of difference between "hearing" something and actually doing it, not trying to sound cocky or anything, but just sayin. I have TOP LED Mars II and also 3w reflector lights, they are doing a great job with both veg and flowering. I've never had frostier nugs than under the LED lights and quality was above that of HID, and cost of electricity was nearly split in half. The yield was on par with HID as well, to me LED work great, and the ROI (return on investment) is very quick. I will pay off my lights within 1 year by electricity savings alone.