LEDs which is the best

Crystal Lady, You are correct. The pricing of LEDs is effected directly by where the production takes place. The reason most of these companies are operating production plants in China is the lack of EPA regulations and the lack of EPA regulations on raw materials. The discussion was originally about the research and development of quality LEDs. That is mostly done in the US.

As for the revenue, Cree is a very large company and did nearly $990 million in sells. Bridgelux did $64 million in that same year. The major difference is that nearly 100% of Bridgelux income was from diode sales and only 67% of Cree's is from diodes. That and the fact that Cree only seen a 14% gain in revenue and Bridgelux seen over 100% increase. Cree also lost nearly 30% of the market share. You can see all of their 2011 info in this report. (FYI Cree's largest manufacturing plant is in Durham, NC. at 749k sq ft., their Chinese factor is 564k sq ft... They also lease 2 other production facilities in China totaling just over 500k sq ft.)

As for Chinese manufacturers that sell directly to the public there are a few. E-shine and Cidly are 2 that come to mind. Both allow you to create any custom spectra that you choose. They ship directly from China to nearly every country in the world. I have heard that customs in Italy can be hard to get your items through though.

As for hawking products or blogging, I believe my over two years of posting peer reviewed articles, publicly detesting sales tactics, calling out misinformation, and and testing LEDs in every fashion speaks for itself to this community. Please feel free to read over my older post across this site. I was one of if not the first person to call out sponsors and non-sponsors alike on their half truths and misinformation, including Advance LED. They have since changed the way they present some information and stopped making curtain claims. Many others have not.
 
Hi crystal lady, like you not fussed where the research is carried out or where the product is made. In today`s economic climate most things are going to be manufactured somewhere in Asia, normally China (we as consumers have only ourselves to blame for that) we want everything as cheap as possible. I am not to work for the wages that they pay in Asia. Mind you as an Australian we are part of Asia. Thank you for your input into my little debate on LED`s and don`t forget Crystal live the dream. Dazza Dingo.
 
Hey Hosebomber, you seem to take criticism of the good old USA to heart. Mate I personally don`t have a problem you guys, but just a word of advice stop taking the crap to heart let`s focus on the things that really matter like growing good bud. Your friend from down under Dazza Dingo. PS Hosebomber don`t forget to live the dream.
 
It wasn't the criticism of the USA I was taking to heart, it was the misinformation. There are no current panels on the market that you can do a 50% less power replacement of an HPS system and get a the same or better results. The closest you can come to that is with a DIY LED or possibly a larger number of the HAN's panels. They are basically small DIY panels pre-made. If memory serves me correct, he is in Europe and the shipping cost are extremely high. However, people have achieved some good results with them.
 
well guys I have just purchased a 600 watt LED (it draws about that on full power) for all most 60% less then most of the US dealers are seller for and probably 50% less than the European brands are selling it for. It has the good quality 3 watt LED`s switching for flower and bloom a 3 year warranty plus a 90 day money back no question asked trial (return it if not 100% happy)and the price is delivered to my door. One US brand wanted over $400.00 USD just for delivery, then wanted me to pay for the electrical lead and hanging fixture another $60.00 bucks making the grand total of all most $2100.00 USD WTF. But in saying all that the proof is in the pudding. So once I receive it and put it to work I will place more posts to let every one know how good it really is. I should receive it in about 5 days,. So watch this space as I will keep you all in the loop with my progress. Dazza Dingo, I am living the dream.
 
any pictures, sounds like your having fun. Keep us all in the loop with how it is all going. Dazza Dingo living the dream
 
Cheers Dazza:

Living the dream is always a nice philosophy. I hope your new light works well, keep us posted. I got directed to what sounds like a full spectra unit for a smashing good price. I may invest in something too.

Cheerio and smile much
 
Hi Variable, I have just purchased a no name LED light and I am waiting for it to be delivered, should be here tomorrow. Here is it`s specifications (as quoted by manufacturer) 600 Watts drawing about 370 watts at full power. 192 x 3 watt globes with a mixture of 90 degree and 120 degree angles and no second lens. It also has two way switching for veg or bloom. Dimensions are 560 x 480 x 50 mm and it comes complete with power lead and hanging kit. The price $570.00 Aussie dollars which is about 290 GB pounds or about $600 US dollars. I will let everyone know what it is like once I get my hands on it and give it a go. Note: I did n`t mention any brands (that should make 420 INC happy), but if it works well I might drop a name or two. Dazza Dingo, living the dream.
 
I must admit I can`t wait myself. I have been chatting with my local hydro shop and I have explained to him what I am up to and he is very interested as well, because he has only heard bad reports about the LED`s. I am going to try a different nutrient as well but I will let everybody know what it is when I have some more results (no free ads if it dose not work to well) don`t worry 420mag INC. all of your sponsors sell this brand/type of nutrient so a free plug may be coming they way . One thing I will say is that I am going to use a flood and drain setup as I have done previously with great success, but I will reduce the amount/timing of the flood and drain cycles. Previously I was cycling the pump for 15 minutes every 2 hours now I will halve that so I will run the pump for 15 minute every 4 hours due to the lack of heat generated by the LED (less evaporation). With the concentrate of the nutrient I will start off using a weak solution and gradually increase the concentrate till I get the right mix, these 2 ideas I have read through posts on this site. Thank you fellow growers and thank you 420MAG for these suggestions. If anyone has anymore suggestions or constructive criticisms please feel free to add them to this thread so we can all learn from your experiences. So guys and girls hang to your hats and come along for the ride because I am sure this going to fun! Watch this space. Dazza Dingo living the dream.
 
hi guys, one week in with the new LED and a pleasing result so far. Unfortunately I did have one problem the pump for my flood and drain system decided to break down which meant I had to place my girl in a container with small amount of solution until I could purchase a new pump. I have a new pump so all should be good now. I will give report back in a week or to and let you all know how it is going. Dazza Dingo, still living the dream!
 
Regarding Indoor Commercial Grows -

Assume you are trying to maximize yield and quality indoors with a footprint of 100-1000 square feet. Of the commercial growers out there and those well familiar with successful commercial grows, what LED manufacturers are reaping the rewards this year?
 
Once you go over 3-400 square feet you start losing the benefits of going with LED. You are in a space that is large enough to provide good venting, the larger footprint of 600 and 1000 watt HPS systems quickly outpace LEDs and the time it takes to recoup the cost of the LEDs from energy savings and bulb changes is beyond the depreciation time of the produces.
 
sorry mate I don't understand your reply. I am not a commercial grower. I am only growing in a area of 1.2 mtr x 1.2 mtr x 2.4 mtr and one plant at a time. Yes quality and yield is important to me, because good bud and lots of it means lots of good time for me. I don`t and never have been part of the trade of selling pot, just a humble buyer. I despise dealers, that why I grow my own. Dazza Dingo, and yes I am still living the dream:thumb:
 
Hosebomber, thanks again for taking the time to think through my question. Got a problem though and it's twisting your logic backwards so maybe you can unravel me.

HID, both MH and HPS disperse photons in a scatter-shot sort of way. In fact, if I recall my optics from college (long ago) the probability of a photon going in any one direction from a HID bulb is the same. Which is why I always assumed that reflective discussions were so important, is Panda truly better than Mylar, et cetera. LEDs (or so I thought) dispensed an inherently directed stream of photons (think of a flashlight vs. a pistol light), made more practical when the diode was placed in the focal point of a spherical or parabolic mirror.
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The part here that screws me up with every single ad I read for LED grow lights that employ parabolas in some way is this: wouldn't every diode need its own focal point and hence its own parabolic mirror? But I digress.

In a big huge warehouse what would it matter if you used a flat LED panel as the wavefronts are all planes perpendicular to the direction of an electromagnetic wave, which with multiple LEDs pointing the same way are, in gross approximation, the same? So with you're new Apache LED panel, you've got this flood of 2-D light-planes commin' down at your Cannabis plant all at roughly the same angle without expanding like a flashlight (or HID) would.

Where did I screw up?
 
thanks guys that clears it all up for me. Love your work, keep up the discussion and help keep the manufacturers of all lighting types honest so we as the end users can obtain the right tools to grow our crops and not let the campaigns of advertisers spread untruths about either technology. As we are all aware sales people don`t necessary let the truth stand in the way of a sale, mind you I don`t suggest for one moment that any of the 420Mag sponsors would be involved in that sort of tactic (said with tongue:woohoo: in cheek). Dazza Dingo and yes still living the dream!https://www.420magazine.com/community/styles/420style/smilies/woohoo.gif
 
There is only 1 LED panel company that I know of that claims they use parabolic reflectors. We discussed that in another thread a week or so ago. Most companies simply use a focusing lenses. Each LED is made with a reflector build into/over the diode. Its the little glass/plastic looking piece. The factory version (usually 120 degrees) is placed around the actual diode and refracts any light omitted from more than 120 degrees (or whatever the diode is manufactured to) so the photon is within that area. The diode is mounted on a ceramic or sapphire wafer and thus, the maximum angle that it can throw a photon is 180 degrees. The secondary lenses that panel makers place over the diode can not be parabolic, as the diode would have to be faced in the opposite direction (at the focus point) to point the light out. You can download the trial version of TracePro and get a good visual of the photon output of a diode. The have most major brands pre loaded too.
 
Once again thanks for the information, and I thought it was just simply going out and buying a quality LED light. So many things to consider. Do you personally think there is a LED out there that will replace the other types of lighting that we have all been using for all these years or are they not quite there yet(LED)? really whats your opinion. Dazza the Dingo living the dream! https://www.420magazine.com/community/styles/420style/smilies/hmmmm.gif
 
Watt for watt most LED panels will out perform HID lighting. Remember that this is on the micro scale tho. Once you start getting into large and commercial grows, the upfront cost is almost impossible to recoup in a reasonable time frame. Never purchase anything that uses less than 1 watt diodes. One watt diodes will perform well in a screen of green grow style but lack the penetration required for anything with more than 18" of canopy depth. If you are growing in anything other than screen of green or extreme LST style use 3 watt or better diodes. I haven't personally tested 5 watt diodes, but I haven't really seen the need to either. The Han's panel has gotten very close to 50% power and I have achieved that goal personally. It is doable but I'm not sure if it is doable on a mass production model panel. I'll be testing that soon.
 
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