LED Recirc - DWC Tangerine Dream Cabinet Grow

Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

jcool09 said:
Bassman :welcome:

Thanks for the well wishes, good luck to you as well. Let us know more about your setup as you get things set up.
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Thanks! And I most certainly will. I feel lots of positive going into this, even as I ask and learn. Spending tons of hours researching - learning will give me a nice leg up as a 1st timer.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

PilotTalk said:
I would agree with krip on the cal/mag deficiency. The yellowing between the leaves veins, and the rusty/brown looking color on the leaf margins and tips as well were a give away. Also the leaves look like they're curling up on the rusty/brown tips. Usually when you have this deficiency, the pH is out of range causing the nutrient to lockout just as in the chart Krip posted, or your plant is running out and is saying feed me some nutes I'm lacking. But in your case it looks as if your pH was a bit high causing the nutrients to get locked out. Hope I helped even though you got help already. :peacetwo:
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Thank you, PilotTalk. It's always good to hear feedback so keep it coming! +rep

Bassman59 said:
Thanks! And I most certainly will. I feel lots of positive going into this, even as I ask and learn. Spending tons of hours researching - learning will give me a nice leg up as a 1st timer.
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Researching your ideas is the way to prepare for your grow. You'll become aware of issues and hopefully avoid making some mistakes that growers made before you. IMO 420magazine.com is by far the best resource out there for growers based on the quality of the member posts.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Looking good. I'm glad you noticed the deference in the lighting and checked for deficiencies. Then got the help you needed. This really is a great community where every one has your back when you need it.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Littllman2469 said:
Looking good. I'm glad you noticed the deference in the lighting and checked for deficiencies. Then got the help you needed. This really is a great community where every one has your back when you need it.
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Absolutely. There is always more to learn and you guys are the best!

PilotTalk said:
Thanks for the rep bro appreciate it mucho. I know how you feel when your trying to asess a problem with your plant, that your not really sure about.
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You're welcome. It's a great benefit to be able to solicit weedback from others. (typo was just too funny to correct...):)
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Houston, we have a problem...

I checked on the girls yesterday and things were not good. The plants that had showed yellowing were much worse and one of the four was severely wilted. My pen had the PH at 5.3- well in range. I did a res change and enabled the recirculating pump which increases the nute volume from 7.5 gal to 20 gal. I had not intended to all of the above last night so I ran out of time before I could take any pictures.

So I was thinking about the situation later in the evening, one thing in particular that I had not mentioned in my journal. At the midway point of my last grow I (attempted to) calibrated my PH pen with a packet of the 7.01 buffer solution. I did not read the manual (RTFM, id10t) so I diddled around with the adjustment screws until it read 7.0x and considered it done right. Sometimes I rush through things like I have ADD, which I probably do. My patience for applying the appropriate attention to detail has definitely decreased with age.

Then at some point days later I was preparing to adjust a fresh batch of H20 and I "noticed" that where the tap water had read 9-10 before it was now 7-8. "Wow, I'm glad I adjusted my meter. My readings were way off" I thought. It is worth mentioning that I had not had any issues with my grow up to this point, the plants were perfect, and felt like I finally had built a functional DWC system. The plants were White Dwarf autos that were heading into their last month of flowering. Yellowing of the leaves are normal and to be expected as the plants begin to consume their stores of Nitrogen during the flowering cycle, right? The term "Seeing the forest through the trees" is coming to mind. I was careless with the most important peice of equipment for growing hydro not experienced enough to see that the plants were trying to tell me that something was off. "Hindsight is 20/20" is also coming to mind but this was a rookie mistake.

Only now am I am putting 2+2 together and it adds up to "I f'd up my PH meter calibration and have been under-reading the PH by about 1.5". I verified this today with one of those basic PH testers with the vial and liquid that you drop in. My pen was saying 6.5, the tester was saying 4-5ish. Not good... So let's refer back to Dr. Krip's chart:

Nutrient_Chart1.gif


When I thought I was at 5.5 I believe now that I was really closer to 4. The chart clearly illustrates that very little is available until you reach the mid-5 range. The plants likely have an "everything deficiency".

The change in the base PH of the tap water had stuck in my mind (obviously in the back under some trash) and I had been losing confidence in the accuracy of the meter. Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that I dropped it into the res once too which may have also been a contributing factor.

Yesterday- before I had this epiphany- I already decided to buy a HI9813-6 GROCHECK PORTABLE COMBO. pH/EC/TDS/Temp Meter. Hanna has come out with a new model that is around $225 with more digital display features but I found the old model on clearance for $119 (PM for more info). One of the needed features (for me) is it's ability to check it's calibration and let the id10t using it when it needs to be cleaned or adjusted.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

I recal my meter every two weeks, just to be sure. I had a similar issue and ended up having a bad pH pen and had it replaced.

PM the link to that tri-meter if you can. I think I may pick one up for my next grow. Although the one I have is fine, I like having a solid backup.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

I have Pro pH Color indicator stuff, in a little long-lasting dripper bottle.
Paid $5 for it some time back, you'll pay $8 - 10 for yours today.

Use an opaque white dish, not the clear tube provided. One mil water sample, one drop fluid.
If you're one of 15% colorblind men, this stuff may not work for you.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Forget about Mr. Krip's chart...let's review Mr. Krip's initial diagnosis :) :


Mr. Krip said:
OK....I'll take a stab at it....

If I didn't know you were using tap water, I'd say it looks just like a cal/mag deficiency to me.

Since you're not using R/O, I would suspect some PH-related problem. And, since I know you've been on your PH, I'm just gonna ask, have you checked/calibrated the accuracy of your TDS meter, lately?
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Not bad for still being a rookie myself! :yahoo:

I'm glad you found the problem and have some corrective actions in place. I'm sure the girls will recover quickly once you get the PH issues corrected. :thumb:
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

So what now?

I have some decisions to make in the next couple of days that I would like to discuss with the group. After reading my last post you have a general idea of the condition of the plants in the flowering cabinet. They have been compromised at a critical stage of their development and will likely not regain the vigor of a normal plant. I have adjusted the PH of the res using the basic PH tester kit so it should be in range now.

I have 4 TD clones taken on 8/6 in the veg cab. Within a few days I will have a new PH meter. Within 2 weeks I should have my new Diamond 200W LED and Gigabud. I have enough meds from the WD grow to last for the rest of the year so there is no rush. To paraphrase Stevehman "the growing is more therapeudic than the smoking"... at least it is when he grows it ;)

The TD are less than 2 weeks into 12/12 so there has not been too much invested in them. I am leaning towards tossing them out and starting fresh with the Gigabud or the TD clones that are rooting in the veg cab. A lot will depend on how/if they recover in the next day or so.

What would you do?
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

jcool09 said:
So what now?

I have some decisions to make in the next couple of days that I would like to discuss with the group. After reading my last post you have a general idea of the condition of the plants in the flowering cabinet. They have been compromised at a critical stage of their development and will likely not regain the vigor of a normal plant. I have adjusted the PH of the res using the basic PH tester kit so it should be in range now.

I have 4 TD clones taken on 8/6 in the veg cab. Within a few days I will have a new PH meter. Within 2 weeks I should have my new Diamond 200W LED and Gigabud. I have enough meds from the WD grow to last for the rest of the year so there is no rush. To paraphrase Stevehman "the growing is more therapeudic than the smoking"... at least it is when he grows it ;)

The TD are less than 2 weeks into 12/12 so there has not been too much invested in them. I am leaning towards tossing them out and starting fresh with the Gigabud or the TD clones that are rooting in the veg cab. A lot will depend on how/if they recover in the next day or so.

What would you do?
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Post some pics so we can all see how bad they are, but, if they're 2 weeks into 12/12 I've got to imagine they've got some strong roots and can recover.

So, without the pics, and in light of the timing you described, I'd say to give them a week or two to recover. By then, you're vegging TD clones will be ready to move and you can figure out then which plants are worth keeping.

Plus, with the growing being therapeutic, think of how great it will be to save them and get a nice yield! :)
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

stevehman said:
I recal my meter every two weeks, just to be sure.
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Great advice. I didn't even have a supply of calibration solution, just the one packet. I ordered a bottle of the PH 7.01 and TDS 1500ppm this time.

Propa Gator said:
I have Pro pH Color indicator stuff, in a little long-lasting dripper bottle.
Paid $5 for it some time back, you'll pay $8 - 10 for yours today.

Use an opaque white dish, not the clear tube provided. One mil water sample, one drop fluid.
If you're one of 15% colorblind men, this stuff may not work for you.
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Old school, simple and reliable. I like it.

Mr. Krip said:
Not bad for still being a rookie myself! :yahoo:

I'm glad you found the problem and have some corrective actions in place. I'm sure the girls will recover quickly once you get the PH issues corrected. :thumb:
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Krip I nominate you for a promotion! Your journals as well as your postings here have been very helpful. As far as the plants go I'm not sure I care if they recover or not. It's only interesting to me to grow healthy plants. We'll see what happens this weekend.

Mr. Krip said:
Post some pics so we can all see how bad they are, but, if they're 2 weeks into 12/12 I've got to imagine they've got some strong roots and can recover.

So, without the pics, and in light of the timing you described, I'd say to give them a week or two to recover. By then, you're vegging TD clones will be ready to move and you can figure out then which plants are worth keeping.

Plus, with the growing being therapeutic, think of how great it will be to save them and get a nice yield! :)
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You bring up another key point here. The clones were rooted well in the rockwool inside the netpots but only had a week or so of root growth outside the netpot (I thought I would go all Stevehman clone->12/12 on their asses) They were able to touch the DWC res but did not have much root mass. The one plant that was wilted this morning was dry inside of the netpot which would indicate that the plant is still relying on the roots in the pot and not able to support itself with the roots in the nute solution. The roots were looking a little brown but that could have been discoloration from the nutes or damage from the whacked-out PH. I did not look at them long, but again this weekend will determine their fate... :rip: or :cheertwo:
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Jcool,

It's been suggested in tulips DWC tutorial to always PH in a jar or container OUT of the tank. I saw you mentioned having dropped your meter in a res, which would indicate you were PH'ing in the tank to me.

He also says to ph adjust the water going into the res. adding the ph adjusted to the res, then recheck the ph. Never adding ph up/ph down directly to the res.

Glad to hear you got the meter adjusted correctly. Made me note to re-check mine before I start too. *Hopefully start by next weekend if everything arrives.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Bassman59 said:
Jcool,

It's been suggested in tulips DWC tutorial to always PH in a jar or container OUT of the tank. I saw you mentioned having dropped your meter in a res, which would indicate you were PH'ing in the tank to me.

He also says to ph adjust the water going into the res. adding the ph adjusted to the res, then recheck the ph. Never adding ph up/ph down directly to the res.

Glad to hear you got the meter adjusted correctly. Made me note to re-check mine before I start too. *Hopefully start by next weekend if everything arrives.
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Great tips that I should start to follow. Thank you! + rep
 
Journal Completed - Thank you for reading

Rest in Peace - 2nd batch of TD clones

I gave them a few more days to recover but the Tangerine Dream plants in the flower cabinet just were too far gone. My PH was way out of whack and I did not get my new meter in time to make a difference. No big deal, I've got a nice batch of meds from my last grow and third batch of four TD clones with some new Gigabud coming soon. I started cleaning everything out this morning in preparation for the next phase, and possibly a new journal, starting in a few weeks.

:thankyou: for all who have read and contributed to this thread.

I will ask the moderator to move this thread to completed journals.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

JCool, sorry the TD's didn't make it but good that you were prepared for it with a nice backup stash of both cured buds and vegging plants. Let me know when the new journal is up!
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Mr. Krip said:
JCool, sorry the TD's didn't make it but good that you were prepared for it with a nice backup stash of both cured buds and vegging plants. Let me know when the new journal is up!
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Thanks Krip. I'll be sure to let everyone know when I get things going again.

:thankyou:
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

very sorry to hear this jcool.

If you wouldnt mind, as I'm not looking back through everything atm (2nd monitor running youtube led vids, doing constant research b4 I make the led plunge), can you list what you feel were your mistakes?

Sadly, we all make mistakes. But hopefully we're humble enough to see what they are and learn.

Best wishes on the next grow. I'll be looking forward to watching it.
 
Re: LED Recirc-DWC Tangerine Dream cabinet grow

Bassman59 said:
very sorry to hear this jcool.

If you wouldnt mind, as I'm not looking back through everything atm (2nd monitor running youtube led vids, doing constant research b4 I make the led plunge), can you list what you feel were your mistakes?

Sadly, we all make mistakes. But hopefully we're humble enough to see what they are and learn.

Best wishes on the next grow. I'll be looking forward to watching it.
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Hey Bassman, thanks for checking in. Hydro only needs nutrient solution dark, cool (<75 F), well aerated, and PH within range of 5.8-6.2. My mistake was PH management caused by a mis-calibrated PH tester. If you are going to grow in hydro some way to accurately test the PH is needed. If you have an electronic tester make sure you have a supply of solutions for calibration, cleaning, and storage..
 
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