Landrace Genetics 101

[JBUptown]

Well I can put a check in the box as having smoked lots of weed in the 70s. I was fortunate enough to live in major port city. We annually looked forward to January and February as we knew then next harvest from Colombia was soon to be uncrated. Most of the ColomBo, both Red and Gold, was dried, then packed in burlap sacks and cured during the boat trip. I "witnessed" several huge bundles being broken down, a burlap pressed square was about 30 lbs. It wasn't your grandpa's Mexican for sure, but I can't remember any bud being "Frosty" or white during those years. Sticky, aromatic, awesome Gold Bud, but it was not visually crystal laden. I wish I had some now to truly compare with today's strains side by side, and not from 40+ year old memories. We tend to remember tings with more glory sometimes! BUT Colombian Gold was tops, and Red was not a slouch either! But no, I don't remember with tricky buds in the early to mid 70s.

Thanks
JB

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Re: Land Race genetics?

When I started smoking in the early 80s in southern BC we didn't hear of much local herb. It was mostly Thai and Jamaican. I missed smoking Thai Stick on many occasions. Everyone loved Thai stick. It's funny when I look back on it. I just assumed I'd wander out someday and get some because it seemed to be around. It was always just around the corner, 'we smoked one 2 minutes ago ya just missed it and it's all gone'. This happened constantly for a couple years and then by the mid 80s it was suddenly vanished, along with the other sativas.
'Redhair' skunk, became the ubiquitous smoke on the street, followed by a whole bunch of other increasing stronger couch lock strains through the late 80s and early 90s- like Chemo. The indica strains totally disagree with me and it took me half a lifetime to figure out what the heck happened and why I suddenly couldn't smoke anymore. I thought something had changed in my brain or something. (Things are always changing in my brain so it was a safe bet, ha ha)
I smoked my way all over SEA, India, and Central America through the rest of the 80s and 90s. Thai smoke was and is one of my favorites. A lot of it was quite mild, but once in a while we'd get some that seemed five times as strong as the rest. It would have us hallucinating. It was all full of seeds. i can't believe I didn't save some!!!!! and am always kicking myself now. I want to go back to Thailand someday to some of the exact places I lived and see if I can find those strains. What a fun quest that would be.
Like Bapple I'm realizing the indica/sativa thing in hindsight. I had no idea. The indica invasion in BC turned me off of smoking herb. I eventually all but quit for many years, and would just smoke hash, when it was available.
I want those seeds! Sob!

Sometimes I glaze over reading through journals. It can get tedious...but I love hearing about people's pasts on here. I perk up immediately. It gets my imagination up and running to put a history to a name. So thank you for sharing WC!!

Id love to hear more about your travels in SEA. Its one of my top destinations at the moment. Despite the fact that I have smoked since I was 15, I for some reason never thought about trying to smoke with the locals to get a feel for how they do it. Going to have to bucket list that one..."Travel to remote areas of the globe to smoke ganja and experience the age old culture of cannabis in its varying shapes and forms."

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Re: Land Race genetics?

Now I cannot tell you how frosty it was cause I have the same problem as you, I wasn't even born So you're gonna have to wait for someone who is old enough to remember. But from my growing experience landrace sativas will put out very little stalked glandular trichomes, and they are sparse. Opposite will be true for landrace indicas from Afghanistan, Pakistan, China or Mongolia which have been bred for hash production, and they produce them in abundance. It's how all these frosty hybrids have been created, by finding an exceptional hash producer and crossing it to another plant, pure sativa or sativa-dominant. It's the only reason why you can get AK-47 for example with uplifting high but still have a lot of resin going on and big buds.

Some of my landrace sativa buds to show you how little resin these plants really produce!


This is Nanda Devi from northern India very similar to Nepalese Highland or Malana charas plant:



And this is Malawi Gold from Africa, a little bit more resin here, also more compact buds:


Still, some will produce less and some will produce more. With landrace it depends a lot on the pheno you get. For example I have this Colombian Punto Rojo growing now which is absolutely amazing resin producer, almost like an indica.

I suppose this is true. I know Landrace Sativas aren't very frosty...don't know why I couldn't answer that myself. But then that just gets me thinking about all the differences in cultivation and curing and how they have changed over time.

Has anyone here smoked landraces from back then that were dried and cured delicately - similar to how most of us are drying/curing today? It sounds like most of the stuff people were smoking then was handled pretty roughly, and yet it maintained its potency. Truly, that must be a testament to the power of landrace genetics.

 

[Graytail]

I actually spent almost 10 years growing landrace Colombians under Metal Halides in a barn.

So, during that entire time, I smoked nothing else, and I smoked my choice of phenos. We started with almost a hundred Colombian bag seeds, labeled them all and took cuts as we flipped 'em. Over a few years, we narrowed it down to a dozen or so. We ran those for years without any degradation, too.

We had to, ahem, abandon that enterprise though, and I was stuck smoking whatever brickweed I could get.

Imagine my relief to be able to isolate and grow my own landrace sativas again!!!

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I actually spent almost 10 years growing landrace Colombians under Metal Halides in a barn.

So, during that entire time, I smoked nothing else, and I smoked my choice of phenos. We started with almost a hundred Colombian bag seeds, labeled them all and took cuts as we harvested. Over a few years, we narrowed it down to a dozen or so. We ran those for years without any degradation, too.

We had to, ahem, abandon that enterprise though, and I was stuck smoking whatever brickweed I could get.

Imagine my relief to be able to isolate and grow my own landrace sativas again!!!

Awesome! How do you think the two compare; phenos of then and now?

 

[Conradino23]

Well I can put a check in the box as having smoked lots of weed in the 70s. I was fortunate enough to live in major port city. We annually looked forward to January and February as we knew then next harvest from Colombia was soon to be uncrated. Most of the ColomBo, both Red and Gold, was dried, then packed in burlap sacks and cured during the boat trip. I "witnessed" several huge bundles being broken down, a burlap pressed square was about 30 lbs. It wasn't your grandpa's Mexican for sure, but I can't remember any bud being "Frosty" or white during those years. Sticky, aromatic, awesome Gold Bud, but it was not visually crystal laden. I wish I had some now to truly compare with today's strains side by side, and not from 40+ year old memories. We tend to remember tings with more glory sometimes! BUT Colombian Gold was tops, and Red was not a slouch either! But no, I don't remember with tricky buds in the early to mid 70s.

Thanks
JB

Now what I heard... yeah what I heard again is that Colombian buds were much potent than previously available Mexican stuff. Some growers say that potency might've been easy over 20% THC, and folks who still wander into remote parts of the country to find a rare strain claim it to be true. It would be really interesting to send one of these classics to the lab. Thx a lot, man

I actually spent almost 10 years growing landrace Colombians under Metal Halides in a barn.

So, during that entire time, I smoked nothing else, and I smoked my choice of phenos. We started with almost a hundred Colombian bag seeds, labeled them all and took cuts as we flipped 'em. Over a few years, we narrowed it down to a dozen or so. We ran those for years without any degradation, too.

We had to, ahem, abandon that enterprise though, and I was stuck smoking whatever brickweed I could get.

Imagine my relief to be able to isolate and grow my own landrace sativas again!!!

How did you select desirable phenos back then, Gray? I actually never asked you that? Potency? Resin production? Flowering time? Branching? Bud size?

 

[Graytail]

It's so hard to remember 30 years ago, and the more you try, the more you run the risk of imagining what you remembered, instead.

For quite awhile, I wasn't even sure what it was we grew - Mexican or Colombian. That finally gelled in my memory. Many of the plants I've grown bring back scent-related memories, too, and that has helped. The Colombians were sandlewood-based mostly, with what I think was a lime topnote. The high was soaring and buzzy, with a warm, ringing rush that would leave you dazed for a few minutes. At that time there wasn't much unseeded pot available, and our stuff was far better than anything you could buy anyway. We distributed it in paper sandwich bags to let the stuff breathe, it was so fresh, but it would smell up the entire space, heheh.

The strains I've grown that were closest to the old landraces are Utopia Haze (Brazilian IBL), Panama (an assumed IBL), Desfran (Thai/Mexican/Colombian) and Carnival (Unknown). Other than Panama, they all share a similar terpene profile, too.

And it's very difficult to gauge potency when it's been 30 years ago, and you were stoned at that time, too. Like JB said, I don't remember sticky glistening trichs all over everything. But we were also growing 5 footers under 15 watts/sqft of Metal Halides, so that would be a factor too. If I had to guess, I'd say potency was in the 10% range. You'd occasionally get killer buds that would make your head spin, but most of the weed was aromatic and not terribly sticky.

But it never had any indica in it. When it wore off, you were just straight, not asleep. The more you smoked, the more f'ed up you got. Most of the sativa hybrids I've grown have that noticeable indica crash that I don't personally welcome. Frankly, I'm pleased to smoke any unpolluted sativa, landrace or no landrace, but it sure is nice to be able to identify and enjoy the distinctions. I already have some very good experience with Brazilian sativas and I like 'em a lot! Maybe one day I'll find one of the old Colombian phenos for sale - that'd be a trip.

 

[Graytail]

Now what I heard... yeah what I heard again is that Colombian buds were much potent than previously available Mexican stuff. Some growers say that potency might've been easy over 20% THC, and folks who still wander into remote parts of the country to find a rare strain claim it to be true. It would be really interesting to send one of these classics to the lab. Thx a lot, man



How did you select desirable phenos back then, Gray? I actually never asked you that? Potency? Resin production? Flowering time? Branching? Bud size?

First, we selected for stable, non-hermie phenos. We had a heck of a time the first few cycles and eventually took daylight down to 9 hours, which also helped finish them sooner. Then, they sort of self-selected by how well their cuts rooted. From there, we isolated the numbers we liked best, mostly for potency at this stage, and took more cuttings from them. I remember that #65 was good, and #7 was great, but we had trouble keeping enough cuts going and we eventually lost the last #7s. That hurt - it was truly sticky and had a spicy cinnamon/sandelwood aroma, and would mess you right up.

We were winging it back then, with no access to expertise - just a fun thing to do.

 

[SweetSue]

First, we selected for stable, non-hermie phenos. We had a heck of a time the first few cycles and eventually took daylight down to 9 hours, which also helped finish them sooner. Then, they sort of self-selected by how well their cuts rooted. From there, we isolated the numbers we liked best, mostly for potency at this stage, and took more cuttings from them. I remember that #65 was good, and #7 was great, but we had trouble keeping enough cuts going and we eventually lost the last #7s. That hurt - it was truly sticky and had a spicy cinnamon/sandelwood aroma, and would mess you right up.

We were winging it back then, with no access to expertise - just a fun thing to do.

Just think of what you could have done with that same opoortunity today. Damn!!

 

[Conradino23]

Another thing came to my mind when I started thinking about what we've had around here in terms of landraces and there was Insane Rooster with his excellent grow of Swazi for which he won POTM April 2014! Swazi is native to Swaziland in South Africa, and although considered there schwag or poor man's smoke, he showed how talented grower makes a huge difference! Swazi was used to create Power Plant famous in the 90's now little bit watered down!

His journal:

Outdoor Sativa Grown In The Ground First Outdoor Grow

 

[JBUptown]

It's so hard to remember 30 years ago, and the more you try, the more you run the risk of imagining what you remembered, instead.

LOL! I was blessed with an excellent memory but I'm sure it has failed more in the past few years than ever!

I do remember in 1973 or so, that whenever I got a sack or lid (Prince Albert!), if it didn't have seeds I would be bummed. I thought seeds meant it was fully matured and the most potent. Stoned Teenager logic I assume, but it made sense to me! I smoked ColomBo Gold and Red both had a lot of seeds, and it kicked hard! I had smoked Mexican that had no seeds and it wasn't very good, in fact it sucked. Therefore I concluded seeded weed MUST be better! The purpose of a double album cover was to deseed right? Also, my adult neighbor that grew lots of tomatoes in the back yard used to select the fruit that looked most desirable and let it run into seed for next year. I figured the folks in Mexico did the same! Ahhh so young and naive !!!! Now I'm all old and jaded ... when did that happen?

Best Of Buds

JB

 

[Conradino23]

I'm dropping this one, so you can see what you can get from Cannabiogen's Colombian Punto Rojo. As this pheno (but there are more) she is very easy to grow, and finishes in late September, and she turns purple. She smells sweet and sour She gives amazing very euphoric head high with a lot of laugh I'm almost getting lockjaw actually She gets you high around 3 hrs, and there's very little comedown, some munchies by the end. Very potent

 

[Bapple]

Good looking plant and super looking buds Conradino. Congratulations!

 

[Canyon]

We were winging it back then, with no access to expertise - just a fun thing to do.
Just think of what you could have done with that same opportunity today. Damn!!

And this is a quote from SweetSue as a reply.

Just think of what you could have done with that same opportunity today. Damn!!

I smoked one dollar a gram hash for over two years in Germany before I ever saw a joint. I also was a rather good friend of someone who sent 70 Kilograms of hash to his home address in a government footlocker.

I would not do what GraytTail or my friend did. However I would give an insain amount of money for a viable seed from a little known sativa that probably originated in Thailand. It was only sold once out of the area that I am aware of and that was in LA.

It looked like some of the images here and was the best smoke in half of the state of Utah. As far as I know and from trying not to know any more than what it took to get good smoke, it could have been grown under 4 foot t8s but was probably grown using 8 foot t8s. I have grown this plant for three years and smoked the fan leaves when there was nothing else. I have had what was available for sale.

However, I was growing it in an attic and I never had the privilege of flowering it out as it should have been.

And, you trust SweetSue with ruderails.

Not many would understand or care that I acutely have a lifetime in these plants.

Best,
canyon

 

[SweetSue]

I care Canyon. I understand.

 

[Canyon]

Cool

 

[Richard Richardson]

Beautiful Punto Rojo, Conradino

 

[Tennessee Tim]

Hello to everybody! I smoked a lot of good "landrace" pot back in the sixties and seventies, here in Tennessee and in Mexico/Honduras. We had a lot of Red Lebanese, Black Vietnamese, Thai sticks, Afghan, Hindu Kush,etc.,etc. passing through back then! I grew out some of these with various results. Some did not thrive, maybe from climate or my lack of care. Some did quite well. I learned here in my area, Sativa's seemed to thrive outside and Indica usually really thrived in the mountains/hills in the east of Tennessee with a slightly cooler climate than the lowlands or indoors under grow lights with AC or in the winter months indoors . The indica's grew OK but just never seemed to do as well outside in the lower end of the state as they did inside. The heat and Spider mites got to more of them. I wish I could of sustained a continuous growing effort but for many reasons I did not, as I raised a family here in a very aggressively policed area. For that reason I never kept any one strain going for long. Some of my observations are, that for one, I smoked some very good weed back then from time to time, relatively cheaply! Also, most of the crap weed was domestic, though some came from Mexico. No pot has ever came close to some I grew one year (1969) from a mix of seeds from some good Gold and Thai Sticks. That stuff was just a blessing because I didn't tend it , water ,fertilize, pinch or trim the buds. Despite me it was unbelievable good! It was seedless females by luck, so it was gone with the wind, and I don't know which seeds germinated to grow it. It was sativa like in many ways. Most of the good plants I grew in the 1970's were probably beginners luck. The quality of the seeds parent plant often did not develop as well in the plants grown from that seed. Most of these grows were outside back then for me, so I suspect that natural environmental differences and culture/grow differences made some of these results what they were. I did have some plants grown indoors for the most part, that had a lot of crystals ,but it seemed overall to me, that a lot of these plants I grew back then did not have as heavy a load of crystals as most of the dominant Indica strains developed in more recent years have now. That does not mean that the plants with less crystals visible were not as good! That mystery pot that was the best I have smoked of all time, had very little crystals observed on the buds, by my recollections! The greatest thing today is that we all have fairly easy access to a lot of good varieties of seeds. Often, back in the early days of my youthful growing adventures, I planted seeds cleaned from just so so smoke. Good seeds grown from "landrace" varieties were rare and hard to come by. I got good seeds from Vietnam, Afghanistan and Lebanon (by way of Italy/Germany/Vietnam and the USA Army) on occasion. It is easy today to get the results of many other peoples work when we grow pot from the seeds they breed for us, purchased off the internet! We don't have to be great plant breeders, or world adventurers, just good keepers of our gardens! This is an exciting time when we the common people can grow great strains of marijuana from seeds gathered around the world anytime we wish.

 

[Conradino23]

Good info, TT

Here's a Mexican landrace called Jarilla de Sinaloa I've harvested few days ago by the way! Didn't smoke it yet!

 

[GoldenEagle]

Conradino,

In an earlier post, you mentioned "Afgan indicas." Could you name off common landrace afgan indicas, or is Hindu Kush and Afgan Kush the only commonly known strains?

Thanks