Landrace Genetics 101

[Pennywise]

What seeds are you wanting to get?

 

[safeman]

Azomite is the soil from volcanic rock can get on amazon - going to give it a try , be great as a top soil also

 

[TorturedSoul]

ive done that with a couple of them a couple Christmases back I ordered some seeds from nirvana I decided to send it in a Christmas card to sat merry Christmas that 110.00 didn't get there

Oh, no! Don't send cash in a holiday (Christmas, birthday, etc.) card - that's like writing "Cash Enclosed - Handle with Care " on the envelope. If anything, swing by the local office supply store on your way to the mailbox, go to where they've got their inkstamp(?) display, whip out your envelope, and stamp "Bill enclosed - SECOND NOTICE!" on it, lol. Mail thieves won't even bother to open it.

Okay, that might slightly annoy the recipient. But it'll get there.

 

[Pennywise]

Good idea TS!

 

[ilikemsticky]

Oh, no! Don't send cash in a holiday (Christmas, birthday, etc.) card - that's like writing "Cash Enclosed - Handle with Care " on the envelope. If anything, swing by the local office supply store on your way to the mailbox, go to where they've got their inkstamp(?) display, whip out your envelope, and stamp "Bill enclosed - SECOND NOTICE!" on it, lol. Mail thieves won't even bother to open it.

Okay, that might slightly annoy the recipient. But it'll get there.

dam I didn't think of that lol!

 

[Big Sur]

Shantibaba started Greenhouse Seeds then sold it to Arjan. Nevil had The Seed Bank which he sold to Ben Dronkers who changed the name to Sensi Seeds. Shanti and Howard Marks started Mr Nice after he sold Greenhouse.

Sort of... its far more complicated than that though. Shanti (Scott) explains it in detail here:

Howard Marks (Mr Nice) and I (Shantibaba) met during the late 1990's while I was living and working in Holland. A few years previously (1995), I had set up the Greenhouse Seed Company. Coincidentally, at the same time, Howard was released from a lengthy imprisonment in the USA. During the next few years, we became very good friends and with the success of my breeding work and help from Neville Schoenmaker (the father of Dutch Seed banks), Howard and I discussed the possibility of working together. We decided to start a seed company to help growers throughout the world. Neville and I were already working together on various seed projects, growing and supplying certain strains to coffee shops as well as changing the uses and perceptions of cannabis.

In 1998, when Neville co-owned the Greenhouse coffeeshop in the Red Light Area, and I co-owned and worked the Greenhouse Seed co (since establishing it in 1994)...we decided to really try that year to do our best at the HTCC. Until then, Neville and I, operating as individuals, had won almost every prize awarded for cannabis breeding. On behalf of Greenhouse, we blitzed the 1998 HTCC, winning every prize other than that awarded for clothing. We came first and second in the overall HTCC. I did not particularly like the event so decided to retire from it that year. Coincidentally my relationship with my Dutch partner deteriorated, and egos went crazy. As a result, I sold my interest in the Greenhouse Seed Company and, as a sole trader, set up Mr Nice Seedbank (MNS), which has always been and remains a Dutch company. Shortly afterwards, Neville also forego his interest in Greenhouse. MNS never entrusted plants to non-growers, including our ex-Dutch partners. Inevitably, confusion results when different companies use the same names for different sub-species, so MNS renamed them all. Seed companies' most valuable assets are the original mother and father plants, which take many years to collect and select. Every seed company uses strains from particular parts of the world, but they differ greatly. MNS uses a collection of both Neville and Shantibaba's plants, the most pedigreed cannabis plants ever bred. We established MNS, with its forty parent plants, to make strains and seeds available to all levels of growers in order to help them help us spread the genetic diversity of this miraculous plant.

Rather than joining any seed companies' bandwagon by merely chasing money, Neville, Howard, and I dedicated our efforts to make old and new world seeds available for growers. We did not care how many seeds we sold or whether we had a profile in the limelight. We are daily users of cannabis, and the mother and father plants Neville and I have kept alive for the last twenty years are capable of producing every currently existing strain.

In 1999, Dutch law changed and no longer permitted the production of seeds. Due to the Dutch gedogen law, however, selling seed imported from another country remained legal. We wanted to fulfil our project without breaking any country's laws. Accordingly, MNS moved its growing operations to Switzerland, where the law permits growing cannabis for seed production. Many Dutch seed companies lost plants, mother rooms, and seed crops, but in Switzerland, MNS seed production blossomed.

Neville remained in Holland and continued to produce seeds and refine breeding techniques. Howard pursued his cannabis legalisation agenda by writing articles, books, and doing stand up shows. I established Gene Bank Technology in the Swiss canton of Ticino, producing strains and seeds for other companies, as well as furthering the use of cannabis as a medicine and producing unique flower essential oils for the cosmetic industry. All went well, with Ticino eventually playing host to the legally permitted establishment of over seventy growing shops and countless farms producing seeds. The Swiss authorities regularly inspected the premises and the activities taking place, tenaciously collecting any taxes due. Then suddenly, in 2003, without any hint of a warning, a Ticino based Prosecutor launched Operation Indoor, an avalanche of arrests, closures and headlines. The Ticino authorities seized GBT, shut it down, and imprisoned scores of innocent people. To this day, a state of confusion exists in Switzerland as cantons interpret Swiss law whichever way the local politicians want. I received a two-year term of imprisonment in Ticino. (However, I still have all the mother and father plants.) Only a handful of other seed producers have faced the courts, and hundreds of cases remain unresolved.

 

[TorturedSoul]

EDIT: Crap, BigSur beat me to it, lol (and he found the quote I was looking for - ).

Shantibaba started Greenhouse Seeds then sold it to Arjan. Nevil had The Seed Bank which he sold to Ben Dronkers who changed the name to Sensi Seeds. Shanti and Howard Marks started Mr Nice after he sold Greenhouse.

The (various posted/stated/rumored) histories, taken altogether, read much like a soap opera. Or maybe five or six soap operas. Ken is on Days of our Lines at 2:30pm, he's screwing Tammy but Tammy actually loves Bill - SO, logically, Ken shoots Dave three times in the back and then turns the gun upon himself and blows his own head off. [Marshal Anderson, who played Ken, will now be appearing on aBummer World, playing Dr. Mike, the Medicine Man] In a fit of... whatever, Tammy takes 614 seconal and two aspirin and drifts into a deep coma. Paramedics arrive, work on her, take her to the hospital where she is shown in a deep coma. Cut to dreamscape sequence 17-B, "Tammy dreams that Ken, having found out that her heart belongs to Bill, decides to shoot Bill's brother's ex-lover's bastard child's favorite teacher - who is revealed to be Dave. A year and a day go by when - suddenly; cue dramatic music - Tammy wakes up. It is revealed in the season #252 opener that it was all just a dream, Dave is fine, Bill is actually a closet homosexual who ran off to found his very own dance troupe and interior decorating business, and Tammy & Ken decide to get married. [The part of Ken, formerly played by Marshal Anderson, will now be played by Peggy Sue Brown.]



Or maybe like any random junior high school, IDFK. It was a relatively small group of people who all knew or at least knew of each other. Put everyone's names into a hat, draw them out and deal them onto a table in various combinations, see how they work, shuffle them around a couple times, see how that works, kick the table over, lather/rinse/repeat.

Or maybe a trailer park, heh. Small neighborhood, occasional partner-swapping, a drug-fueled party or two... 25 years later and you can't anyone to agree with anyone else as to what actually took place.

Posted 5 December, 2013:

Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Haze’s and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK…and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first Seed Bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk….and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s.

In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from the F1 seed…but most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who see dollars first and not genetics….Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used Arjan’s coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike Arjan’s claim it began in 1985 from him alone…he was angry that I sold my half share to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and Howard…but I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997…el nino1998 , Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibaba’s Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a medical cannabis farm and distil oil…so I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at being glorified dope dealers….as it still is today. Medical was more my interest.

I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big problem with Arjan too…but it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards….only while Nevil was there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught cheating or trying to bribe people to win cup…so was disqualified one year.

A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature etc….but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my plants not anyone else’s. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco, the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is paid by Arjan andis part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but it is they are all selling a name that sells…nothing more.Ask Franco to show you a photo of the original parents that make the widow…he cannot as he has never seen them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrong…as there are no rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one owns nothing…even all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the plants do not officially exist…but that is another story.

In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later too…mixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at the Spanish seed companies and 10 years ago…none existed until I went there in 1995 and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine….but that is another story too.

Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed as you only need a F1 female and chemicals….no need for a male…..so go figure why companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etc…set up selling female seed…..the money the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plant…they buy an original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there products…but now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical plus….but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won the original awards and made the legends…nowadays it is all confused and everyone is going feminised…except MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noise…and we are full.

ShantiBaba

 

[Pennywise]

The story I read contained only parts of Big Surs story, it gets so blurred trying to figure out where everyone fit in during prohihibition.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Im having trouble purchasing from Ace (as are a few others I Think). It’s the only place to get the Purple Satellite (@tropics made). They have agreed to post to me, but will only accept cash in registered post envelope (USD or EUROS) or international bank transfer (my back are a pain about these transaction). I’m not ok with either of those. I have a buddy here in 420 who has purchased with them many times before with CC who is willing to make the payment for me (thank you) but today Ace tell me this:

We are working on an upgrade with our bank on the card payment platform,
so the card payments won't be available through our website for international orders outside Spain until we finish this process.
We will keep you informed as soon as the card payment is available again as payment mode.

Meanwhile...

 

[GrizzWald]

brilliant, should be the start of every conversation about early days in the Amsterdam cannabis industry;

Small neighborhood, occasional partner-swapping, a drug-fueled party or two... 25 years later and you can't get anyone to agree with anyone else as to what actually took place.

 

[Pennywise]

Not good for business at all

 

[tropics]

I caught a Oldtimers leaning pheno in an Ace mix and that sucker was the real deal. It had absolutely no bag appeal, but every part of every leaf and calyx surface was covered in tiny trichs. You pull a damp sticky clump of loose bud out of the jar, stuff it in the pipe, and you're high for 4 hours, with no lethargy and no crash. It smells like alfalfa. I get a big kick out of making people try it.

But it's not easy to get it to the end. I had success by restricting root space in early bloom (which it only started to do after it sat under 11/13 for 7 weeks). When it stopped stretching, I upcanned it again. Flip early or start no mercy, bloom it in a 3 gallon pot, then upcan to 7+ and you should be able to manage it indoors.

It's worth it - a true Haze.

This has been in the jar over a year so it's fully cured, hence the brown color.

GoldenTiger x PurpleHaze

• Graytail
• May 19, 2019

GoldenTiger x PurpleHaze

• Graytail
• May 19, 2019

Looks beautiful to me!
NICE ONE!

 

[tropics]

Im having trouble purchasing from Ace (as are a few others I Think). It’s the only place to get the Purple Satellite (@tropics made). They have agreed to post to me, but will only accept cash in registered post envelope (USD or EUROS) or international bank transfer (my back are a pain about these transaction). I’m not ok with either of those. I have a buddy here in 420 who has purchased with them many times before with CC who is willing to make the payment for me (thank you) but today Ace tell me this:



Meanwhile...

Hello Amy
I am sorry you are having trouble ordering with Credit cards, I have noticed that more with many seed companies, I think what may have happened is some discruntled seed buyers may have notified their credit card companies and now the cc companies are clamping down on what they suspect as seed sales. I have had trouble with seedsman and I know ACE has been having problems with cc payments. Hopefully they squared away.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Lol, speaking of Nevil Schoenmakers, in 2017 a Singaporean biotech company called Stemcell United named him as their new strategic advisor. Its stock price immediately went up 8,300%, LMFAO. It was a penny stock, but still...

To put this in perspective, someone holding $1000 of stock on Monday evening would have seen their shares top out at $83,460 by Wednesday morning.

One can have a lot of fun playing the penny stock market. I definitely wouldn't advise someone to invest their retirement savings into it. Although there have been times when, if a person invested their money equally among every company's stock that was trading at less than $5.00 per share and held those investments for a year and sold them, they would have doubled their money even after the inevitable losses from the stocks that went down (and the companies that went completely out of business during that year). A stock going up seven cents seems paltry - unless it was valued at five cents per share when you bought a (virtual) wheelbarrow full of it.

EDIT: Looks like that Stemcell United stock is currently trading for $0.017US, lol.

Tropics: You communicate with Ace Seeds on more than just the "pseudo-anonymous customer making a seed purchase" level. How about suggesting they open a branch office in the 'States? If they could work out the bulk smuggling shipping logistics, it might allow them to take a much bigger bite out of the domestic US portion of the cannabis seed market. I think there's at least one other cannabis business that has done this, and at least one that has arranged to have an informal reshipper located here.

 

[medmanmike]

Im having trouble purchasing from Ace (as are a few others I Think). It’s the only place to get the Purple Satellite (@tropics made). They have agreed to post to me, but will only accept cash in registered post envelope (USD or EUROS) or international bank transfer (my back are a pain about these transaction). I’m not ok with either of those. I have a buddy here in 420 who has purchased with them many times before with CC who is willing to make the payment for me (thank you) but today Ace tell me this:



Meanwhile...

Amy, same thing I ran into with Ace a couple months back. Finally, I sent cash. Things went quickly and I received my Purple Satellite beans without a hitch. Sure is taking some time to sort out the cc issue.

 

[tropics]

Hey TS!
Thank you for the tip.
I have been contemplating a lot about many of my options, ACE assures me they are working on it.
I also inquired here, on potentially becoming a site donor, Right now pennies are tight, also we are getting closer here in my local to a recreational sales layout. It will happen and then I may look at seed sales direct as well as supplying ACE. It's baby steps. I cannot mention names here because of site logistics but I am looking at other options.
thanks again!

 

[tropics]

Amy, same thing I ran into with Ace a couple months back. Finally, I sent cash. Things went quickly and I received my Purple Satellite beans without a hitch. Sure is taking some time to sort out the cc issue.

Thank you Medmanmike!
You know! That was the way we used to do it and ACE certainly is reputable.

 

[Big Sur]

regseeds dot com takes CCs, bitcoin and even Paypal if you ask. They have a lot of ACE seeds listed, as well as RSC, Tropical and others. Purple Satellite is not listed, but you can ask them if they can get them for you. They also ship cheap and fast, from 4 to 9 days for me. Never had any issues there. CC is simple and easy. I use them because RSC does not ship stateside. And it is easy peasy to pay with a CC.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Thanks medman & tropics.

Well then, I may have to quiz some of you privately about how to send cash well. . I have been lucky enough to rely, usually, on my photographic success to acquire seeds, plus some generous members here. Luckily Seedsman stock ace gear so I’ve been fortunate. I just have a hankering for the PS - it’s been bred for my exact conditions it feels like, both weather wise, and the need to find a sativa high without the heart racing pressure - which I now have to avoid . It’s very appealing

Cheers bigsur- I think PS is only available direct.

 

[safeman]

Lol, speaking of Nevil Schoenmakers, in 2017 a Singaporean biotech company called Stemcell United named him as their new strategic advisor. Its stock price immediately went up 8,300%, LMFAO. It was a penny stock, but still...


One can have a lot of fun playing the penny stock market. I definitely wouldn't advise someone to invest their retirement savings into it. Although there have been times when, if a person invested their money equally among every company's stock that was trading at less than $5.00 per share and held those investments for a year and sold them, they would have doubled their money even after the inevitable losses from the stocks that went down (and the companies that went completely out of business during that year). A stock going up seven cents seems paltry - unless it was valued at five cents per share when you bought a (virtual) wheelbarrow full of it.

EDIT: Looks like that Stemcell United stock is currently trading for $0.017US, lol.

Tropics: You communicate with Ace Seeds on more than just the "pseudo-anonymous customer making a seed purchase" level. How about suggesting they open a branch office in the 'States? If they could work out the bulk smuggling shipping logistics, it might allow them to take a much bigger bite out of the domestic US portion of the cannabis seed market. I think there's at least one other cannabis business that has done this, and at least one that has arranged to have an informal reshipper located here.

been wanting to get into penny stocks - what/who do you recommend to start investing ? Thanks !!