Landrace Genetics 101

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lazyfish said:
If anyone, BigSur would know.
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I posted the published what little info there is on Zac Purple here before. From what I see, people call whatever they want Big Sur holy and Zac Purple and make up stories about where it came from to sell beans. In all cases I have seen, what they call BSHW is really a strain called SAGE, a child of BSHW x Afghani. Amusing what has happened in the future. The past has certainly become sketchy. Not that dealing was ever the most noble of trades, of filled with honesty. But back then, we only had weed from SE Asia, Mexico and Colombia, with occasional weed from Africa, Jamaica and India. It was obvious where it came from, at least in a national sense. Thai came on sticks, Colombian came usually bricked and less commonly as loose tops, and Mexican was the same. Colombian could be distinguished easily from Mexican as they tended to be way more seeded up and later on were brick fermented and had a brown color to them. Also they had notably different highs than Mexican herb did, and they came into the area at different times after harvesting.

From my growing experience, Zac Purple is a late strain. It does not finish in October. Last I grew it, it was just getting revved up and turning purple in mid October. As a general rule of thumb, most north Mexican landraces finish late, like Colombians landraces do. The SW Mexican strains finish in October as a rule. The BSHW/Zac Purple that I bought in Big Sur was fresh cured in early February. Meaning it harvested in late December that season in Big Sur (36.4 deg. lat.). That was during a drought year there in the late 1970s allowing for later harvested weed w/o any rot. There was also no question as to where the weed was grown, or by whom. I knew these guys and worked with them for many years, and I got it in Big Sur. It was spendy, but it was good weed. If I knew the rarity that it would have long term I would have bought a pound.
 
BigSur said:
I posted the published what little info there is on Zac Purple here before. From what I see, people call whatever they want Big Sur holy and Zac Purple and make up stories about where it came from to sell beans. In all cases I have seen, what they call BSHW is really a strain called SAGE, a child of BSHW x Afghani. Amusing what has happened in the future. The past has certainly become sketchy. Not that dealing was ever the most noble of trades, of filled with honesty. But back then, we only had weed from SE Asia, Mexico and Colombia, with occasional weed from Africa, Jamaica and India. It was obvious where it came from, at least in a national sense. Thai came on sticks, Colombian came usually bricked and less commonly as loose tops, and Mexican was the same. Colombian could be distinguished easily from Mexican as they tended to be way more seeded up and later on were brick fermented and had a brown color to them. Also they had notably different highs than Mexican herb did, and they came into the area at different times after harvesting.

From my growing experience, Zac Purple is a late strain. It does not finish in October. Last I grew it, it was just getting revved up and turning purple in mid October. As a general rule of thumb, most north Mexican landraces finish late, like Colombians landraces do. The SW Mexican strains finish in October as a rule. The BSHW/Zac Purple that I bought in Big Sur was fresh cured in early February. Meaning it harvested in late December that season in Big Sur (36.4 deg. lat.). That was during a drought year there in the late 1970s allowing for later harvested weed w/o any rot. There was also no question as to where the weed was grown, or by whom. I knew these guys and worked with them for many years, and I got it in Big Sur. It was spendy, but it was good weed. If I knew the rarity that it would have long term I would have bought a pound.
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If that statement, making up stories to sell beans refers to me, I find it pretty offensive, and pretty mean spirited.
I have posted many pictures of pure Landrace strains on here and f1 crosses of landrace and Heirloom strains. And anything I have put up for sale has been true to name and solid in its description genetic make up and of best quality. And I proud of what I offer, I have domated topeople with less, and I find my undertaking nothing less than noble.
Thank you very much!
You talk all this, I have it in my freezer, well take the time pop some beans take some pics and show us!
I believe these threads are for sharing and learning, not to criticize and belittle people.
 
CISKEI
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That looks just like the DurBush I chopped awhile ago - Durban x Bushmans(Ciskei). It ran very long (14 weeks) and produced big fat fluffy tops just like yours. The breeder said it'd go 9 weeks. :rofl: So, apparently, I have a Ciskei leaner. I still have a reveg going but I think I'll probably let it go. I didn't really love the smoke.
 
Graytail said:
That looks just like the DurBush I chopped awhile ago - Durban x Bushmans(Ciskei). It ran very long (14 weeks) and produced big fat fluffy tops just like yours. The breeder said it'd go 9 weeks. :rofl: So, apparently, I have a Ciskei leaner. I still have a reveg going but I think I'll probably let it go. I didn't really love the smoke.
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Hi Graytail
I actually will not grow grow her again either I was like yourself not impressed with the quality
of the smoke. and she could have gone on forever.
 
tropics said:
If that statement, making up stories to sell beans refers to me, I find it pretty offensive, and pretty mean spirited.
I have posted many pictures of pure Landrace strains on here and f1 crosses of landrace and Heirloom strains. And anything I have put up for sale has been true to name and solid in its description genetic make up and of best quality. And I proud of what I offer, I have domated topeople with less, and I find my undertaking nothing less than noble.
Thank you very much!
You talk all this, I have it in my freezer, well take the time pop some beans take some pics and show us!
I believe these threads are for sharing and learning, not to criticize and belittle people.
Click to expand...

Well, Mr Noble:

I have no idea if you sell beans or not, and I was not referring to you specifically here. More specific are the several posts on bean selling sites (maybe some are yours? I do not know) claiming that some guy named Bamboo was in Big Sur in 1969 and got beans, then went to LA and grew them every few years to preserve the line for nearly 50 years now. Which is the same tired story I have read on seed peddling sites about rare strains like Puba Budder and Maui Wowie in Hawaii, Haze from Santa Cruz, and BSHW etc. etc. If you look on all the sites that sell BSHW, they all invariably say that they are a hybrid made WITH Big Sur genetics. Or they are uncertain of the origin. You seem to be quite certain, which I question. Mainly because what you are describing and showing here is not what I have seen from my personal grows and what I saw growing in Big Sur back in the day with my own eyes. What most sell as BSHW is the later SAGE strains, which was an acronym for Sativa Afghani Genetic Equilibrium. Which was also bred in the Big Sur area, and used BSHW as the sativa in that hybrid. It was much more popular and basically replaced the earlier BSHW sativas grown in the area, because they bloomed earlier than BSHW does. Many also claim that SAGE and BSHW was bred with Haze, which is complete BS. They were not. Nor is SAGE BSHW. It is a child of BSHW.

I have posted many many many photos on this and other sites as Big Sur if you care to look. I have also posted the late 1970s and early 1980s portion of my Cannabis seed collection on this site long since. Have a look see. I lived in Big Sur and on the Monterey Peninsula from 1966 to 1986 and in the SF Bay Area (Los Gatos if you must know) from 1993 to until 2004. I WAS THERE. I have grown Zac Purple/Big Sur Holy Weed (BSHW) multiple times, and I can attest that: 1) As written about in several published works, they are derived from the Zacatecas Purple Mexican landrace strain. 2) They have tiny dark purple seeds, which is also written about in several published works, including the book Weed. 3) Zac Purple and BSHW are very large and tall landrace pure sativas from the state of Zacatecas in Northern Mexico. 4) As with most Northern Mexico landrace strains they bloom rather LATE. Again, if you care to research it, northern Mexico strains as a group bloom and finish LATE as in November and December, like Colombian strains do. That fact is referenced in the book Marijuana Potency which is also where I got the WILD AND INSANE idea to start freezing seeds in 1977. Which I did, and from which I grow many strains here every year. Legally with a state issued permit. I have over 100 strains in my freezer now, about 50 of which are original landraces and 30 more are heirlooms. I do not post here to gain notoriety or validate my existence. I post to EDUCATE PEOPLE about weed. I seem to have ticked you off by doing that. My bad or your bad, or both.

From the locations that I have lived during my rather long life, I know a lot of about Big Sur and the weed grown there back in the day. Who brought ZAC purple weed to Big Sur originally is up for debate, and there are many stories about that. But that is irrelevant. If you are a breeder and sell seeds, great. As such, you can call whatever you want whatever you want. Its still a black market product in the US at the federal level, and in most other places in the world. I can call my seeds and strains Haze or GDP or Big Sur Holy, and no one can sue me for that, as there are no plant patents available in the US, because weed is not legal at the federal level and Cannabis strains cannot be registered with the USDA. And even if you could patent your stain of Cannabis, you can only patent CLONES of plants, and not seeds from plants, unless they are genetically modified or otherwise treated in some patented way. For Cannabis and marijuana strains in particular, current naming convention is an anomaly from industry naming standard, in that both clones and subsequent bred seeds of strains are called the same strain. Clones, Fx, Sx, hybrids, and IBL beans are all called by the parent strains. And hence many strains are not what they once were, from genetic drift from multiple seeds runs over time (as would have to be the case with the Bamboo guy that got BSHW and bred it IBL in LA for over 48 years), or from hybridizing. If you want to call what you have there Big Sur Holy, great. But that does not mean that it is the same as what they grew as BSHW in Big Sur back in the day, or the same as the F1 IBL seeds that I have in my freezer from those grows.

You call yourself noble? Meh... Other than in bag weed back in the day, I have never sold a Cannabis seed, nor do I plan to. I have not made a farking dime off of my seed collection. Yet there are many people today using my genetics to breed new strains around the globe. Some I gave away to breeders and friends from the 1970s through last week. Some I have traded more recently. I have also given seeds to some people that are verifying my IBL and F1 hybrids. Does that make me noble? No. I also get lots of PMs begging for seeds, and I say no to them too. I am not a charity either. I have been growing weed since 1972. I am getting old. I have willed my seed collection to a breeder in Europe that is a life long grower, but younger than I am. Is that noble of me? No. I could also change my mind and have my brother flush all my beans down the toilet when I croak. I am neither altruistic or noble. Most do not believe that I have the beans or that they can be frozen. They challenge me like you have here. I have gone around and around on the same topics here. Seems pointless to debate it, regardless of the facts and empirical evidence. Many reading my posts here do not believe anything about what I have posted. Or they whine that my posts are TD;DR. Boo hoo. Its a forum, open to opinions and whatever people wish to post. If you and your entourage do not like what I post here? Use the ignore option and add my alias to the list. And poof! I will be gone from your world. For now though, my opinion and personal experience stands that what you are calling BSHW is something other than original Zac Purple landrace or Big Sur Holy sativa weed. A hybrid likely, and most likely what was later bred and called SAGE. Or a multi-generation run that has substantially drifted genetically?
 
Wouldnt have a clue, tell a story though.. gotta love a big Sur fairytale... LOL.. Using your genetics to make beans :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: your genetics :rofl::rofl: or seeds you collected?
 
Well for all the good it can do I can say I don’t have a clue and I don’t have any way to find out who has a real one and how it looks, cause I never even knew anyone who knew how it looked... less anyone who even smoked it. I’d love to buy the beans though, so anyone who starts offering it for sale eventually is the righteous one in my book :smokin2:
 
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