Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

[Keffka]

Its because there is no real profits for them with organics. They like selling bottled nutes and all the fixes needed like bug sprays, cal-mag, etc. Plus most growers prefer the synthetic route. Follow the money.

Almost every item I purchase I get the same response, “I didn’t even know we had that”. Someone there (probably the old hippy owner) knows exactly what products we need though because he’s got almost all of them tucked away in the corner together.

Sorry I forgot to mention... SRP is calphos. It can be called colloidal phosphate too. Its a natural mix of high cal hi phos dust. Its great stuff and you don't need much. Its not one of those ingredients where you toss in extra just cuz. Its potent phosphorus. It needs to be cooked in, not dressed. It gets better with recycling so if you over do it then down the road it gets to be way too much. But in moderation you see a difference in side by sides.

So I’m apparently confused on the two. I was under the impression SRP is more fast acting whereas just regular Rock Phosphate is meant for recycling. I swear I remember talking about throwing a small layer of it in for the myco to grow into.

As far as the Dolomite and oyster shell.. Should I cook those in or layer them in? My thinking was top dressing since calcium moves downward but I don’t want to overpower the plants.

 

[Sparkey224]

Don't you guys have to worry about recycling and inhaling all the phosphorus? I know you need balance but not exactly healthy. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's got to be a better turn with it with nitrogen. I'm in the city, so synthetics work for me. Yes, it's not ideal but if I'm on a farm all organic of course..
Cheers, you guys are pretty smart, just a thought

 

[Sparkey224]

Might be a stupid question..just saying recycling it and turning the soil without a mask..

 

[Keffka]

Don't you guys have to worry about recycling and inhaling all the phosphorus? I know you need balance but not exactly healthy. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's got to be a better turn with it with nitrogen. I'm in the city, so synthetics work for me. Yes, it's not ideal but if I'm on a farm all organic of course..
Cheers, you guys are pretty smart, just a thought

Not a stupid question at all.

Yeah there absolutely is a risk. Same thing when dealing with guanos, meals, etc. Just like any other scientific process, you’re gonna want to wear protective gear. People should wear PPE when mixing up synthetic nutrients as well, and don’t get me started on smelling synthetics lol.

As far as inhalation goes, that’s why you wanna wear a respirator or at least an N95. At the bare minimum put a bandanna on your face, but do something.

Once everything is mixed and cooking you should be ok as far as inhalation goes, especially since everything should consistently be moist. However if you have concerns throw on the respirator.

A respirator should be a part of every growers kit if they’re going to messing with guanos and such. If for no other reason than you don’t wanna inhale poop

 

[Sparkey224]

Thanks K for the input. Well said

 

[Sparkey224]

Thanks K for the input. Well said

I haven't been using protection using synthetics, and let me tell ya..ph up or down will leave a red spot on the skin for weeks..lol
Cheers bud

 

[Keffka]

Thanks K for the input. Well said

It’s easy to forget about PPE, especially when dealing with organics. People get complacent and think “it’s organic how bad can it be?!”

ITS POOP! ITS ALL POOP! If it’s not poop, it’s blood, or its bones or other stuff you don’t want entering your body directly without being cooked over a flame.

Yeah the synthetic stuff isn’t much better either. It can get in your eyes, through your skin, or build up on your lungs over time. It’s not worth the risk. I used to be a no PPE guy until I had a chemical on my skin that absorbed into my body and made me feel like I had pneumonia for 3 days. Now I’m pretty careful with what I’m handling unless I know exactly what’s in it, which is hard to do with so many “proprietary” products out.

 

[Gee64]

Almost every item I purchase I get the same response, “I didn’t even know we had that”. Someone there (probably the old hippy owner) knows exactly what products we need though because he’s got almost all of them tucked away in the corner together.



So I’m apparently confused on the two. I was under the impression SRP is more fast acting whereas just regular Rock Phosphate is meant for recycling. I swear I remember talking about throwing a small layer of it in for the myco to grow into.

As far as the Dolomite and oyster shell.. Should I cook those in or layer them in? My thinking was top dressing since calcium moves downward but I don’t want to overpower the plants.

SRP is very fast acting.... compared to RP. But its unlikely that in one grow you will use all thats cooked into your soil. Its still phos. Getting the plant to use it all is way harder than adding more. So if you add too much (as in the plant can't use it all) and it all doesn't get used, and it won't, next round when you add the same amount, now its alot too much phos which isn't good. Most recipes for 20 gals of soil only call for 1/4 to 1/3 cup of srp. Thats plenty.

 

[Keffka]

Something seems different on the forums.. some sort of formatting or theme change but I can’t tell what it is. This is like the time I accidentally turned developer mode on lol.

 

[Keffka]

Picked up a few items the past couple days. Saw these cool little collapsible fabric pots that spring up and hold their shape even when empty so I picked up 2 to see how they are

Also grabbed up some perlite, and here’s the coco and soil

Got the Dolomite lime already on hand

Also picked up 25 lbs of greensand.. they had Gaia green greensand, 1 lb for 28$ or Down To Earth 25 lbs for 33$. Down to Earth is a dependable brand and that price difference is absurd. I will be purchasing their worm castings though, the price is usually fair and the quality is high.

Don’t forget the oyster shells!

 

[lootznbootz]

Picked up a few items the past couple days. Saw these cool little collapsible fabric pots that spring up and hold their shape even when empty so I picked up 2 to see how they are

Also grabbed up some perlite, and here’s the coco and soil

Got the Dolomite lime already on hand

Also picked up 25 lbs of greensand.. they had Gaia green greensand, 1 lb for 28$ or Down To Earth 25 lbs for 33$. Down to Earth is a dependable brand and that price difference is absurd. I will be purchasing their worm castings though, the price is usually fair and the quality is high.

Don’t forget the oyster shells!

I wonder what the difference is that could cause that much of a price difference that’s pretty insane!
It’s coming together tho piece by piece

 

[Keffka]

I wonder what the difference is that could cause that much of a price difference that’s pretty insane!
It’s coming together tho piece by piece

They claim it’s quality related. They’re a Canadian company so I’m not surprised their prices are so high honestly. Most products I’ve seen come out of Canada are fairly expensive. Down To Earth has also been around for a while so they likely have better suppliers and being an American company, less regulation/taxation.

I used their (Gaia Green) EWC last grow and it was really good but not worth the price difference. I can get real nice quality EWC for 20$ per 30 lb bag whereas Gaia green wants 40$ for the same size and quality imo. Most of the products I’ve gotten from them have been similar. Good quality but not enough to justify the price.

Gaia Green seems to be meant for middle class suburban growers who only want to go to one store. People who want to grow organically, but dont care about prices. It’s easy to get the same quality products they offer for a quarter of the price if you know where and how to look.

P.s. @StoneOtter heres a tag for you, the others already showed up lol.. Ill tag others as I remember

 

[Keffka]

Picked up my castings today 30 lbs for 20$.. hopefully it’s the last bag I have to buy while I establish my own.. I’ve been saying that since the last grow though lol

To complete my recycling mix collection I still need to acquire:

- High N bird/bat guano (e.g. 9-3-1)
- Feather Meal
- soft rock phosphate
- Gypsum
- Kelp Meal
- Alfalfa meal
- Azomite
- granular Humic acid ore (recommended not required)
- steer/barnyard manure (recommended not required)

I can get everything except the feather meal, soft rock phosphate, and manure from my local store. The feather meal is simple enough but the soft rock phosphate is trickier for some reason. I also need to pickup some BTi. Gnats have been present in the last 2 grows so this time Im just gonna use BTi from the beginning when Im mixing up for cooking, then again when they hit their containers.

Here’s a shot of the entire soil recipe:

 

[Keffka]

@StoneOtter and @Gee64 question. So when looking at the soil recipe it says:

-1/2 cup ground oyster shells (1.5 cups of crushed if ground not available

-3/4 cup crushed oyster shells (1/4 cup ground if crushed not available)

Do you take this to mean if all you have on hand is crushed oyster shells you should use a total 2 1/4 cups? I.e. I have only crushed oyster shells. Should I add the initial 1.5 cups it asks for then also add the next 3/4 it asks for? I am assuming it means 2.25 cups total since below that where the Dolomite lime is at it says:

1 cup powdered Dolomite Lime (2 cups prilled)

1 cup prilled (extra 1/3 cup powdered if no prilled available)

Am I making sense?

 

[Gee64]

@StoneOtter and @Gee64 question. So when looking at the soil recipe it says:

-1/2 cup ground oyster shells (1.5 cups of crushed if ground not available

-3/4 cup crushed oyster shells (1/4 cup ground if crushed not available)

Do you take this to mean if all you have on hand is crushed oyster shells you should use a total 2 1/4 cups? I.e. I have only crushed oyster shells. Should I add the initial 1.5 cups it asks for then also add the next 3/4 it asks for? I am assuming it means 2.25 cups total since below that where the Dolomite lime is at it says:

1 cup powdered Dolomite Lime (2 cups prilled)

1 cup prilled (extra 1/3 cup powdered if no prilled available)

Am I making sense?

Thats exactly the way I have always done it except I only have flour but the same idea. As for prilled dolomite vs powdered I alway use prilled and when it calls for powdered I double it as prilled. It has always worked out OK.

 

[Keffka]

Growing has me so hooked Diablo 4 came out today and I’m not even interested lol. I’ve got work to do to put this grow together. Getting ready to expand and rinse off the coco.. It says it’s rinsed already but I’m extremely suspicious of all claims made by anyone but myself and a few others I’d rather be extra cautious. The amount of salts that can reside in coco will throw everything out of wack.

I’ll be using the same Rubbermaid bins I use for cooking my soil. I have 5 1/4 inch holes drilled on the bottoms to allow for drainage. I’ll post pics when I’ve finished

 

[Keffka]

Cocos finished. Here’s the bin I used

I added about 6-8 gallons of water and it filled the entire bin

I let it sit over night. This afternoon I went out and flipped the bin

This way any water that’s settled on the bottom will run back to the top.. Hopefully it’ll all absorb and runoff out of the lid.

Once the coco is finished I will begin mixing up the soil. Originally my recipe was going to be

3 CU ft Ocean Forest soil
1 CU ft EWC
1 cu ft perlite
1 cu ft coco

However after doing some reading, and speaking with a couple people I will be adding in Dolomite lime, and oyster shells. I have a few other amendments I’m still on the fence about so we’ll see what the final mix becomes but as of now it looks like:

18 gallons soil
12 gallons perlite
12 gallons EWC
6 gallons coco
1.5 cups all purpose 4-4-4
1.5 cups greensand
6 cups oyster shells
3 cups prilled Dolomite lime

Any thoughts or opinions on that mix @Gee64 ?

I’ll also be adding in layers and spikes this time as well. I’m still narrowing down my recipes but it’ll be some variation of bone meal, fish bone meal, blood meal, and oyster shells for layers and probably some aerated EWC for spikes since we’ll be going in 10 gallon minimums.

 

[Gee64]

Cocos finished. Here’s the bin I used

I added about 6-8 gallons of water and it filled the entire bin

I let it sit over night. This afternoon I went out and flipped the bin

This way any water that’s settled on the bottom will run back to the top.. Hopefully it’ll all absorb and runoff out of the lid.

Once the coco is finished I will begin mixing up the soil. Originally my recipe was going to be

3 CU ft Ocean Forest soil
1 CU ft EWC
1 cu ft perlite
1 cu ft coco

However after doing some reading, and speaking with a couple people I will be adding in Dolomite lime, and oyster shells. I have a few other amendments I’m still on the fence about so we’ll see what the final mix becomes but as of now it looks like:

18 gallons soil
12 gallons perlite
12 gallons EWC
6 gallons coco
1.5 cups all purpose 4-4-4
1.5 cups greensand
6 cups oyster shells
3 cups prilled Dolomite lime

Any thoughts or opinions on that mix @Gee64 ?

I’ll also be adding in layers and spikes this time as well. I’m still narrowing down my recipes but it’ll be some variation of bone meal, fish bone meal, blood meal, and oyster shells for layers and probably some aerated EWC for spikes since we’ll be going in 10 gallon minimums.

I would add some rock dusts.

If you plan to cook it, and you should with that dolomite in there, then I would add some meals too.

At least 2 and any kind you like.

I mainly use kelp, alfalfa, and weed.

Theres all kinds of meals. They make it cook better and supply aminos as they break down.

This is The Mutant, fresh flash-frozen, then shattered into meal.

 

[Keffka]

I would add some rock dusts.

If you plan to cook it, and you should with that dolomite in there, then I would add some meals too.

At least 2 and any kind you like.

I mainly use kelp, alfalfa, and weed.

Theres all kinds of meals. They make it cook better and supply aminos as they break down.

This is The Mutant, fresh flash-frozen, then shattered into meal.

I thought it would be overkill but was thinking 1.5 cups blood meal, 3 cups bone meal, 3 cups fish bone meal 2-3 cups rock dust (haven’t figured my source yet so tbd). Sound right ratio and element wise? These are larger amounts than I’m used to so wanna make sure I’m tracking correctly.

 

[Gee64]

I would go 2 cups rock dust and add an extra 1.5 cups green sand.

Blood meal will certainly do the job. If its your only meal I would add a bit extra.

Go with 2 cups and then mix it really well and keep it perfectly damp for at least 28 days.

Longer is better but the dolomite is getting set up by then so the last of the blood meal could ignite.

When the dolomite structures the soil you get a rush of free nitrogen. You need to make sure that big rush happens before you plant.

42 days is really good. And for sativas thats 28 days for the rootball to die and spore out in the pot, then 42 days cooking = 70 days. My sativas flower for 72 days.

It works pretty good I keep 1 extra set of soil rotating so it actually sits for 72 extra days. Then when its time to use it I mix it with fresh EWC, coco, and perlite, and put it in the pot that will get used 2 weeks before and water it.

Soon you will have too much soil lol. You are starting with 18 and finishing with 48.

Thats 2.5 times more than you started with.

Figure out where it will go. I built a 2200 gallon pot outside. Its my no-till. I add all my extra soil to it.

Every grow is 40 gallons with 4 10gal pots and I do 5 a year so 200 gallons of soil, times 2.5 is 450 gallons.

I need to get rid of 250 gallons of extra soil a year. I grow a lot of veggies

10% of my no-till volume is really close to 250 gallons It works pretty good.

Definitely add the extra green sand for sure, after calcium its pretty important. It calms the plant similar to kelp or fish ferts.

Try to work some gypsum in if you can.

Maybe reduce both dolomite and oyster shells a bit each and use gypsum instead.

That bit of sulphur gets used. It helps soil conditioning too.