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- #21
GhostFacePurp
New Member
depends on your space and setup .or would that be better?
and what you want out of it..400W should yield you half a pound or more of quality BUDS...GFP
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- #23
Well its only for the early stage because i plan on bringing them outside. That's why i think i am going to go with the smaller fluorescent light eith a t5 bulb
GhostFacePurp
New Member
in that case yes that light will work fine...a 400 would grow you a bigger stronger plant that would for sure yield more.BUT you have to use it correctly. So it sounds like you have a plan ..Plan your work , then work your plan. good luck .GFP
worldgrow
Well-Known Member
Hi snoxker
I am also on my first grow and using a combo of cfl and two t8 5 foot 58w tubes and i would really recommend rather going for the HPS if the price is right and you can control the temperature .... dont get me wrong the floro and cfls work but you have to keep them very close to the plants as the light does not penatrate much and this will make you have to adjust them daily so plants dont grow into them and burn which is a pain
I am going to replace my lights with a good led panel soon becuase of the reasons mentioned above
My grow with cfl and floro tubes
. From Africa
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- #26
You think I would get more yield even if i take it outside after?
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- #27
Hi snoxker
I am also on my first grow and using a combo of cfl and two t8 5 foot 58w tubes and i would really recommend rather going for the HPS if the price is right and you can control the temperature .... dont get me wrong the floro and cfls work but you have to keep them very close to the plants as the light does not penatrate much and this will make you have to adjust them daily so plants dont grow into them and burn which is a pain
I am going to replace my lights with a good led panel soon becuase of the reasons mentioned above
My grow with cfl and floro tubes
. From Africa
Nice setup mate!
GhostFacePurp
New Member
the plant would be bigger indoors under a 400 than the t5 so yes it would yield more when put outside.
A typical 400-watt HPS grow light would work in a grow space that matches the light's footprint ("output pattern") which is eight square feet in size. In truth, that's at the bottom end of the recommended wattage (of HID) for flowering cannabis, at 50 watts per ft.². Around 62.5 watts per ft.² would be even better, being able to produce denser bud in general - and at this point you're getting into the range of being able to flower strains that are more sativa-dominant without the buds turning out too airy (they'll never be as dense as 100% indicas will). And people have grown cannabis at (slightly) less than 50 watts/ft.², too. Bud density can suffer, but there are other things to consider than watts per square foot. The grower's styles/methods come into play, too - a space could be slightly too large, yet conceivably still produce a bigger harvest than a smaller space.
But IDK whether the 400-watt HPS you can get "at work" are high-quality grow lights, cheap ones... or high-bay industrial warehouse lighting, parking lot lighting, et cetera. The former will be made with the intention of using them for this purpose, and will (except for a few) have remote ballasts. The latter will generally have reflectors that are meant to cast the light's output over a much greater area, and will usually have the ballast built-in, which would probably require you to "remote" it in order to remove that source of heat (the ballast) from your grow room. Not difficult - and there are threads/articles on the Internet for doing so - but it is an additional step, and one that some people do not wish to take.
BtW, I've seen the industrial type available used on Craigslist as cheap as $20/each. Usually an old C&C ("magnetic") ballast with LOTS of hours on it, but they're made for a long service life. The bulb that comes with such a used HID is almost always (well-)used, and should be treated as an emergency spare (IOW, unscrew it and stick it on a shelf somewhere, then go buy a NEW bulb). And the reflector that comes with a light of this type is usually not something you'd want in your grow room (although it'll generally work, sort of) and should be replaced if/when funds allow. And, of course, you'd want to remote the ballast. OtOH, thousands and thousands of people have grown cannabis after buying a light of this type (especially in the days before there were so many indoor grow shops). I wouldn't recommend it if you have the funds to get something better (and new, lol) or can save up enough in the next month or two, but...
In truth, and for best results, the grower ought to adjust his/her lights regularly anyway. It's just far more critical with low-intensity light, as you have discovered. Most of us don't get quite so... Err... obsessive? about it when using HIDs. But it's probably one of the things you'll find "on the list" of a grower that is pushing yield, trying to produce every gram that it is possible to wring from their setup(/strain).
In late flower, after the stretch (first 40% of flowering) has ended, the plants are no longer growing up and the light doesn't need to be moved. And if one is growing "scrog style," of course, that is different, because the growth during vegetative (and into the first part of flowering, if the screen is not yet full at that point) is forced back under the screen on a daily basis - in this case, the light can remain stationary until the plant is allowed to begin growing upward through the screen.
That whole scrog thing was created originally by (several people separately) those who used fluorescent tubes for lighting. You use them; imagine if you had a bunch of them, with all of the tubes spaced tightly together so that you were able to provide 400 watts' of light in a 2'x4' space. That hits the 50 watt per square foot minimum, but the intensity is still low (as is penetration). But also imagine that your plants are growing on a flat plane (held down by the screen) directly under that light setup. Then your canopy, while thin, is all receiving as much light as can be hoped for. Your lights will be parked at that height for a long time; you won't have to raise them daily (until you let the plants start growing up), although you'll be in there training the plants on a daily basis, pulling down each growing tip that has grown just enough to be moved into a different hole so that it doesn't stick up. This is the best use of fluorescent tube lighting (in the grow room) that I know of. You'd still be growing with low-intensity lights, but you have minimized the consequences of that as much as is possible to do. Your yield will be higher than if you used a less "intense" form of plant training, because they do not produce plants with a flat canopy to match your lights' profile. And, if you have high ceilings, you can conceivably run a double-decker grow, lol.
I'd go with HIDs if possible. But the above works, and I did it "back in the day."
BtW, I'd recommend a single plant, if possible, for a scrog. You'll have a longer vegetative period, of course. But it can be very difficult to harvest one plant out of several in an ongoing scrog. If you must use multiple plants (for example, if you're growing 100% indicas and don't want to add a month or two to your vegetative phase), then try to use plants that are clones from the same mother. Otherwise, even if you're using plants of the same strain but different mothers (or from seeds), you might end up with multiple phenotypes that have different flowering period lengths. And my experience has been that it's a lot easier on harvest day to just saw off the plant under the screen, then disconnect that screen and carry it in to the dining room table to work, lol. This is NOT an option if there are multiple plants and at least one of them isn't ready yet.
A scrog is probably the only way I'd grow a plant that had a significant amount of sativa in its genetics under fluorescent lighting. Both because of the higher light requirement and because the screen will help with the "magic beanstalk" growth pattern (reaching for the sky
). Also, the long internodal spacing of sativas is much less of an issue, because those gaps (which might stretch several "empty holes" in length in between nodes) are simply filled with other growing tips. You end up with a really massive tangle of stems under the screen, but who cares, lol? Above the screen, you've got nice civilized rows/columns of bud.My grow with cfl and floro tubes
A couple of things (which you may or may not already know):
Those brownish walls are absorbing far more light than they are reflecting. Yes, with your low-intensity lights - and the inverse square law of lighting which states that the intensity of a light source drops off at the square of the distance instead of a 1:1 ratio - you don't have much light hitting those walls. But, because of this, I'd consider being able to use as much of the light you're actually producing as possible to be even more important, not less. So paint those walls bright white! Flat, if possible, but flat paint is not cleanable. Something with a bit of a sheen will be more durable/cleanable, but I'd try to avoid gloss. Eggshell, satin, or semi-gloss, with the preference being just enough of a finish to be able to wipe it down if need be.
Also, those CFL bulbs... I see that they are oriented in several different ways/directions. They produce the greatest bulk of their light from the "side" - not from the top end (and, of course, not from the end where the socket is
). The one on the left, for example, that is hanging vertically? It is throwing a huge percentage of its light output onto the walls beside it. For best results, those would all be oriented horizontally, parallel to the leaves' surface. At that point, slightly less than half of its output would be going straight to the leaves (where the chloroplasts are, directly under the top surfaces of those leaves). For the light that is going up, it's pretty simple to make homemade reflectors out of aluminum drink (soda pop, beer, whatever) cans. You can just cut one end off, cut straight down, and open it up like a wing and, after trimming the end you left to fit onto the bulb's base or the socket, call it done. or you can spend a little more effort, cutting around the bottom but leaving it attached so that you can open it out a good bit and have it direct the (minimal) amount of light coming from the top of the bulb. You can even add a crease running parallel to the bulb down the middle of the can, opposite the long straight cut. That way, any light that outputs straight up will be reflected at an angle instead of back at the bulb. And you get to drink what was in the can, too.400 is fine, hps, not so fine. Spectrum is better for flowering. However, as you will already have the ballast, you can screw in a metal halide (mh) instead. Make sure you have a timer so you can set the time to 18 on and 6 off for veg. You get much less than 14 hours and they will begin to flower even if very small.
Well... Assuming the ballast is an electronic one capable of using either HPS or MH bulbs. Or, if the older C&C ballast type, it is "switchable."
Conversion bulbs, if needed are cheaper than buying a new ballast, if not switchable. Cheaper than a bulb and ballast, anyway.
If they are going outside, i did t5ho this season for early veg and they did the trick. Not much shock going in the sun, but I did have 1/2 the bulbs as hortilux pureveg uva/uvb so they got good uv from seedlings to plantout.
If they are going outside, i did t5ho this season for early veg and they did the trick. Not much shock going in the sun, but I did have 1/2 the bulbs as hortilux pureveg uva/uvb so they got good uv from seedlings to plantout.
Granted. I just wanted to insert the information into the thread, because these threads are sort of permanent, and it might be read in the future by someone who happens to have an old-school ballast that can't fire both types of bulbs. A huge amount of people read threads here as guests, meaning they cannot ask for clarification unless they become a member (which I highly encourage them to do, of course).
worldgrow
Well-Known Member
A couple of things (which you may or may not already know):
Those brownish walls are absorbing far more light than they are reflecting. Yes, with your low-intensity lights - and the inverse square law of lighting which states that the intensity of a light source drops off at the square of the distance instead of a 1:1 ratio - you don't have much light hitting those walls. But, because of this, I'd consider being able to use as much of the light you're actually producing as possible to be even more important, not less. So paint those walls bright white! Flat, if possible, but flat paint is not cleanable. Something with a bit of a sheen will be more durable/cleanable, but I'd try to avoid gloss. Eggshell, satin, or semi-gloss, with the preference being just enough of a finish to be able to wipe it down if need be.
Also, those CFL bulbs... I see that they are oriented in several different ways/directions. They produce the greatest bulk of their light from the "side" - not from the top end (and, of course, not from the end where the socket is
Thanks for the input man i will use some of that to use but cant paint now in day 25 of flower with just those lights the 5 feet long tubes are mounted to a bright flat white board and cfls pointing inward reflect off that .... The board works like a giant reflector hood thats why the light is directed downward and not to the walls .Tomorrow will be defol day stretch just done thinking of cutting some clone from the bushy one to open her up any thought being day 25 is it fine?
The brown was a emergecy quick fix , its a garage grow in the winter and temps drops had me worried so i insulated the grow soace with 2 inch thick cardbord insulation and worked great
I wish i could have better light South africa sucks when it comes to that ... duties and custom crearance more than the price o your product
Any way here some bud porn i took last night day 2unknow strains
This has been my first grow and a great kearing curve , Prepping everything i need to do a proper grow
. From Africa
So... The flowering period is 60 days or less, then?
You can take cuttings and root them at this point in time, sure. You might notice some funky leaf growth for a bit when you stick them back into a long-day environment (just like if you leave matter on a plant after flowering and reset your lights in order to reveg it), but that's not a problem. They should root fine and become healthy clones.
If you've been giving them lower doses of nitrogen (IOW, after-stretch flowering nutrients), you might give them just a little boost a few to several hours before taking the cuttings.
And you might take two sets, leaving one in the flowering room under the current lighting schedule and placing the other under the traditional mild but much lengthier "cloning level" light. That's if you're curious as to which set would root first. I'd guess that, in theory, it'd be the ones left in their current environment, but that's just a hunch. And both sets ought to root.
worldgrow
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice
Whit these strains i am not sure at all they look very pure sativa like and from what ive read can have very ling flower so ill just keep checking thrics at the end and winging it ....pop by my journal ill update once clones are up but keep in mind thi is my first grow in a place here there is not much to gro with.Plants got a good feed today so will cut them soon
. From Africa
HighrThnMos
Active Member
Nice looking girls you got!! Im growing a Jock Horror Auto. Glad to see more Jock Horror journals to learn fromThanks for the input man i will use some of that to use but cant paint now in day 25 of flower with just those lights the 5 feet long tubes are mounted to a bright flat white board and cfls pointing inward reflect off that .... The board works like a giant reflector hood thats why the light is directed downward and not to the walls .Tomorrow will be defol day stretch just done thinking of cutting some clone from the bushy one to open her up any thought being day 25 is it fine?
The brown was a emergecy quick fix , its a garage grow in the winter and temps drops had me worried so i insulated the grow soace with 2 inch thick cardbord insulation and worked great
I wish i could have better light South africa sucks when it comes to that ... duties and custom crearance more than the price o your product
Any way here some bud porn i took last night day 2unknow strains
This has been my first grow and a great kearing curve , Prepping everything i need to do a proper grow
. From Africa
worldgrow
Well-Known Member
This is a unknow strain from african greenhouse so might be you never know lol was a bag seed from some great bud
HighrThnMos
Active Member
Ahahah I thought it was a jock horror. I should read a little more instead of drooling over the pictures.