i do not see any micro nutrient deficiencies in your plants, if anything i would increase the nitrogen you are giving to your plants to offset the yellowing in the leaves. i have found a feed schedule for you.
Jamaica Seeds Blackout Kush #2
- Thread starter b.real
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- #62
hmm, well thats good to hear. its just so odd. on top of using soil that comes with some food, amending it AND feeding twice a week, theyre still a bit hungry. ph is stable and good. im going to topdress with a 4-4-4 plus cal, mag, sulfur and benefical fungus and bacteria tonight.
i already have a feeding chart by biobizz, but let me ask a couple questions.
according to these charts, they want you to feed once a week? or how does it normally work, according to the charts?
anyone know what kelvin a fluorescent burns at without any type of coating?
will yellow leaves return to green, or is it a whats done is done kinda deal?
im going to check the ph of the solution after mixing very soon. i just got some ph strips. this is what my tap reads before mixing
i already have a feeding chart by biobizz, but let me ask a couple questions.
according to these charts, they want you to feed once a week? or how does it normally work, according to the charts?
anyone know what kelvin a fluorescent burns at without any type of coating?
will yellow leaves return to green, or is it a whats done is done kinda deal?
im going to check the ph of the solution after mixing very soon. i just got some ph strips. this is what my tap reads before mixing
strips aren't the most accurate things to use id get a digital one
I feed nutrients every time i water unless i am flushing, i believe they want you simply to increase the amount of nutrients you feed week to week peaking at week 8 based on an 11 week grow cycle. yellow leaves will not turn green again, once leaves are damaged they do not heal the plant simply attempts to bypass the damaged areas. this will simply attempt to stave off the yellowing of the leaves until you are further into flower.
Scarfinger68
New Member
The yellowing will not return to green. You will look at new growth to make sure it is healthy.
If tap water is 6.8. it will likely decrease as you add fertilizer to it. It will do you good to check PH of the solution after you mix it with water.
I agree with KingJohnC that if the micronutrients have been address... Nitrogen would be the next thing to address. I am assuming that your fertilizer has nitrogen in it so I am not sure I would do anything drastic for the nitrogen. Maybe hit it with a VEG feeding mixture one time. Flowering nutes usually have less nitrogen.
Now when you now the PH after adding your nutes to the water... I am curious as to what your runoff PH is.
The main thing I see that could indicate that something isn't right is the twisted leaves. Just keep an eye on them.
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- #66
Scarfinger68
New Member
Well... My first thoughts are that nitrogen stress or toxicity would be increased dark green color and leaf tip clawing down.
Not positive but I think Leaf twisting is from low PH, or toxicity of some short... I just can't remember what kind. If not nitrogen that would leave phosphorus and potassium as the remaining culprits. I wouldn't make any drastic changes. The leaf twisting may work out or it may stay and new growth will tell you what the plant needs.
Now I have something to research a little more
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- #68
ok. they are both 37 days old today. i fed them properly tonight. 32 oz of rain water and 2.5 ml of mostly bloom, some topmax and some grow.
ph is a bit low, but its stable enough to feed with. next i will test with my tap water and the mix becuase this was a rainwater mix.
ph is a bit low, but its stable enough to feed with. next i will test with my tap water and the mix becuase this was a rainwater mix.
Scarfinger68
New Member
After some thinking and a little research... I believe the twisting is from the magnesium deficiency. So combining the purple stalk? purple stems, yellowing between the veins and twisted leaves it definitely has... or had a magnesium deficiency.
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- #70
ahh..hold on ill pull em out. i did not add epsom salts like i said i did cause we have none. i know its cheap but whatever. ive used only my biobizz and a teaspoon of the granular to each pot which has a little bit of everything in it, including some magnesium.
the soil also comes with magnesium, i think. brb
the only good thing about synethics is its usually an all in one. fish emulsion is true organic all in one, but its too stinky to run indoors.
i think biobizz bloom is a all in one as well, but i havent been using much of it. i need to mix mostly bloom from now on. wiki says the species of sea kelp im using has a full range of macro and micronutes
"Application
1. Use 2-5 ml of Bio·Bloom™ per liter of
water (1,5 - 3 teaspoons per Gallon).
2. Replace with every nutrient change
during the bloom cycle.
Guaranteed Analysis
Low Analysis Fertilizer
Total Nitrogen (N) ...1.00%
1.00% Water Soluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ...2.00%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ...2.00%
Derived from Sea Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum), Beet Vinasse (which is molasses).
Ascophyllum nodosum is harvested for use in alginates, fertilisers and for the manufacture of seaweed meal for animal and human consumption.[20] It has long been used as an organic and mainstream fertilizer for many varieties of crops due to its combination of both macronutrient, (e.g. N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S) and micronutrients (e.g. Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, etc.). It also host to cytokinins, auxin-like gibberellins, betaines, mannitol, organic acids, polysaccharides, amino acids, and proteins which are all very beneficial and widely used in agriculture.[21] Ireland, Scotland and Norway have provided the world's principal alginate supply.[22][23]
Ascophyllum nodosum is frequently used as packaging material for baitworm and lobster shipments from New England to various domestic and international locations.[24] Ascophyllum itself has occasionally been introduced to California, and several species frequently found in baitworm shipments, including Carcinus maenas and Littorina saxatilis, may have been introduced to the San Francisco Bay region this way.[24]
the soil also comes with magnesium, i think. brb
the only good thing about synethics is its usually an all in one. fish emulsion is true organic all in one, but its too stinky to run indoors.
i think biobizz bloom is a all in one as well, but i havent been using much of it. i need to mix mostly bloom from now on. wiki says the species of sea kelp im using has a full range of macro and micronutes
"Application
1. Use 2-5 ml of Bio·Bloom™ per liter of
water (1,5 - 3 teaspoons per Gallon).
2. Replace with every nutrient change
during the bloom cycle.
Guaranteed Analysis
Low Analysis Fertilizer
Total Nitrogen (N) ...1.00%
1.00% Water Soluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ...2.00%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ...2.00%
Derived from Sea Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum), Beet Vinasse (which is molasses).
Ascophyllum nodosum is harvested for use in alginates, fertilisers and for the manufacture of seaweed meal for animal and human consumption.[20] It has long been used as an organic and mainstream fertilizer for many varieties of crops due to its combination of both macronutrient, (e.g. N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S) and micronutrients (e.g. Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, etc.). It also host to cytokinins, auxin-like gibberellins, betaines, mannitol, organic acids, polysaccharides, amino acids, and proteins which are all very beneficial and widely used in agriculture.[21] Ireland, Scotland and Norway have provided the world's principal alginate supply.[22][23]
Ascophyllum nodosum is frequently used as packaging material for baitworm and lobster shipments from New England to various domestic and international locations.[24] Ascophyllum itself has occasionally been introduced to California, and several species frequently found in baitworm shipments, including Carcinus maenas and Littorina saxatilis, may have been introduced to the San Francisco Bay region this way.[24]
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- #71
day 39 from seed.
as you can see ive encountered more nitrate burn. i may water with pure water next time, or i may feed very, very lighty.
the twisted leaves (that arent clawed) are just becuase theyre trying to turn over to gather the light from below. one is almost 12" tall and the other is almost 9" lets hope they can pack on buds, cause im happy with 12" plants
as you can see ive encountered more nitrate burn. i may water with pure water next time, or i may feed very, very lighty.
the twisted leaves (that arent clawed) are just becuase theyre trying to turn over to gather the light from below. one is almost 12" tall and the other is almost 9" lets hope they can pack on buds, cause im happy with 12" plants
CrimsonBlitz
New Member
happy weednesday! awesome photography b.real 
I'm not as experienced as you but I'm not really seeing the nute burn. Looks like a Nitrogen deficiency which I've read is normal during mid/late flower. I was under the impression nute burns start with leaf tips. I'm sure you are correct though and less is more
from another source.
Nutrient Burn
Problem: You may notice the tips of your plants showing signs of nutrient burn. If it only seems to be affecting the tips, then there's no need to worry, but if you start noticing the problem spread to the whole leaf, then you should immediately do something to treat your plant before there's more damage. Nutrient burn can also manifest itself as random spots around the edges of the leaves, or with leaf tips curling downwards.
I'm not as experienced as you but I'm not really seeing the nute burn. Looks like a Nitrogen deficiency which I've read is normal during mid/late flower. I was under the impression nute burns start with leaf tips. I'm sure you are correct though and less is more from another source.
Nutrient Burn
Problem: You may notice the tips of your plants showing signs of nutrient burn. If it only seems to be affecting the tips, then there's no need to worry, but if you start noticing the problem spread to the whole leaf, then you should immediately do something to treat your plant before there's more damage. Nutrient burn can also manifest itself as random spots around the edges of the leaves, or with leaf tips curling downwards.
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- #73
thank you! and you may not be as experienced, but you have healthier plants. im so mad that i let these girls go hungry a bit, and lose their biggest fan leaves. now im burning/stressing them!
i would say i have nitrogen stress. the tops are too green and the leaf tips are curling downwards, like you state.
next round..feed more frequently with lighter dosages so they dont go hungry, and so they dont catch burn. or i can try and amend the soil heavier so i dont have to feed until ~ week 4. after that they should be able to handle the dosages i mix.
i would say i have nitrogen stress. the tops are too green and the leaf tips are curling downwards, like you state.
next round..feed more frequently with lighter dosages so they dont go hungry, and so they dont catch burn. or i can try and amend the soil heavier so i dont have to feed until ~ week 4. after that they should be able to handle the dosages i mix.
CrimsonBlitz
New Member
Lets not compare, from what I've seen in your journals, your doing a damn fine job 
In any case I'm sure you will get everything back under control soon I did a similar regime as you, less nutes more frequently during the veg period, Seemed to work great, I should have continued to do so instead of working to full strength. Was a learning experience though. I'm gonna develop a feeding schedule like icemud did an example was like nutes -> 3 watering cycles -> molasses -> nutes. First I gotta learn what my strain likes before developing any system
In any case I'm sure you will get everything back under control soon I did a similar regime as you, less nutes more frequently during the veg period, Seemed to work great, I should have continued to do so instead of working to full strength. Was a learning experience though. I'm gonna develop a feeding schedule like icemud did an example was like nutes -> 3 watering cycles -> molasses -> nutes. First I gotta learn what my strain likes before developing any system
Scarfinger68
New Member
Oh yeah they are starting to flower up. looking good. A little this or that... I wouldn't worry to much about it. The main thing is keeping the PH stable. As long as the PH is stable you can correct any deficiency.
Full steam ahead....
Full steam ahead....
- Thread starter
- #76
thanks crimson, but i dont have a 150 watt hid anymore. well see how this cfl grow goes now..first time trying it.
i think theyre just about dont stretching and as you can see if you look deep inside the plants, the new growth has PLENTY of food.
they are drinking, so their roots arent that burnt. im going to water them tonight i think.
i havent had to do much work like lst or anything. its a pain getting in and out of my small cab. maybe ill just top next time? will that keep the plants a bit shorter, or not by much?
the heavy purple stems are just this plants genetics. its g13 x ogk (chemd x kush)
g13 is colorful
i think theyre just about dont stretching and as you can see if you look deep inside the plants, the new growth has PLENTY of food.
they are drinking, so their roots arent that burnt. im going to water them tonight i think.
i havent had to do much work like lst or anything. its a pain getting in and out of my small cab. maybe ill just top next time? will that keep the plants a bit shorter, or not by much?
the heavy purple stems are just this plants genetics. its g13 x ogk (chemd x kush)
g13 is colorful
CrimsonBlitz
New Member
Morning and good weed b.real. If you have space for it, stretching is good so long as the internodes remain short and tight. It sounds like your limited height wise like myself. LST is probably the number 1 way of restricting height. topping reduces height as well, but I feel its primary function is secondary branching. an untopped branch grows fast towards the light. a topped branch is stunted and promotes all its energy into secondary branching, as soon as its 2-3 nodes high I top again.
My clone at 3-4 weeks has been topped 21 times and has over 40 secondary branches. I remove my plants from the cabinets to train them unless its a scrog where I have no choice but to work in an incredibly cramped space. I know most people use some sort of wire with something soft around it for LST and drill holes through the pot. personally I feel this method of LST takes too long so I just cut up coat hangers and stab them into the soil to keep branches low and where I need them.
I remember you thinking your plant had Magnesium deficiencies, its very much possible g13 x og kush = mk ultra. From the pics I've seen there is no purple in the stems, some of the pics have slightly purple buds.
Purple stems is usually contributed to genetics, magnesium deficiencies, or possibly cold temps (duno about the temp one) if the purple starts to extend to the main stalk Its probably time to get some second oppinions. I think its better to reference leaves for an MG deficiency than stems.
Calcium competes with Magnesium, just thought I'd throw that out there.
Best of luck and hopefully its just a nitrogen deficiency
CrimsonBlitz
New Member
copy and pasted. hope it helps
3. If you are experiencing Nutrient Lockout. Usually (NOT ALWAYS!) when you have a dramatic nutrient imbalance the cure is not to try to figure out the exact one, but flush the plants, and add a fresh WELL BALANCED and MEDIUM STRENGTH dose of nutes. Now don't go flushing at every burned leaf or tinge of yellow. Use common sense. But if you see dramatic problems, and there are no obvious signs of another problem like heat, cold, grey goop in the res, root rot, etc - then its prolly not a bad idea to flush the plants and re-fill the res.
Now that you understand the WHAT, WHY and WHEN of flushing - let's talk turkey and get to the HOW.
I have experience with the 3 basic techniques: Plain Water, Water with extremely low nutes, and Clearex - there is a time and place for all of them and the method is basically the same. And remember if you have plants in multiple containers - feel free to experiment with multiple methods on the same grow.
I use Clearex and will describe that method in detail. Clearex is a brand name flush from Botanicare. Many folks use plain water or a very, very mild nutrient/water mix just as effectively. I won't try to make a suggestion on ppm for what a very light mix is, but let me tell a quick story to illustrate.
I had 5 plants in 5G soil that were ready for harvest. I thought. 4 plants did indeed finish in the next 4 or 5 days after the Clearex flush and it was perfect. They tasted great after an 8 day dry and 2 week cure.
The fifth plant, however, was not quite finished. So I decided to give it one more feeding, then wait three days, then flush again using the low ppm method as a test. All the plants had been receiving about 1250ppm the week before. So I fed this one 750ppm with very little runoff. Then three days later I gave it 100ppm with about 50% runoff. Then 4 days later I gave it plain water with about 50% runoff. Then 3 days later I cut it. So the timeline at the end was: Wed - Clearex 5 plants; Sun - Chop 4, feed 1 750; Thurs - feed 100; Sunday - plain water; Wed - Chop. This was wrong. I had not allowed enough time at the end, nor used enough plain water.
I dried that plant exactly the same 8-10 days as the others - 'til her stems snapped fine, then the cure. After a two week cure the smoke was still extremely harsh on the exhale, and the buds crackled when burned. BTW - this is the sure sign of a bad cure or flush - if the smoke tastes fine on the way in but becomes ridiculously harsh on the way out. So I put that bud back in to cure and left it for the last to be smoked. six weeks of curing later - for a total of TWO MONTHS OF CURING - it was still snap, crackle pop and tasted harsh. So I can't give you an estimate on what low ppm means, but I can tell you what I did was NOT enough of a flush. Perhaps someone who uses the low ppm method effectively can add to this. Now back to our regularly scheduled program with a method that I have had 100% success with.
HOW TO:
Remember - when you are flushing, you are trying to get rid of that buildup of nutrients. Most of that buildup is NOT above the ground. You are trying to flush the roots and soil. So try to do it at the beginning or end of the day when you can mist the plants with plain water. This will lower their transpiration and keep them from sucking up more flush water than they need. This step is not required, but its on the Clearex label so I do it.
Step 1 - Drain your res and refill. Add Clearex at about 20-30ml / Gallon. pH balance to 5.7-6.2 depending on whether you're hydro or soil.
Step 2 - Run this mix through your plants. If you are doing containers you want to achieve significant runoff. Far more than your standard watering. The bottle calls for AT LEAST 80-90% runoff. So if you have a 5 gallon pot, you will want to put 3-6 Gallons of water through depending on how dry the soil is when you flush, and how much drainage. With a little experience with your soil you can skip the rest of the steps and call it done right there. If you really want to be sure then use the ppm measuring described below.
If you are doing hydro, saturate the system for 5-15 minutes then allow it to drain back to the res. No need to drain the res.
Step 3 - Measure the ppm of the runoff.
Step 4 - Run the same Clearex/water through again.
Step 5 - Again measure the ppm of the runoff. The ppm should be the same or higher than the first time. This is because you are sucking all those excess nutes out.
Step 6 - Keep repeating this cycle until you see little to no change on the ppm. For me this is usually two times, sometimes three.
That's it!
Now drain the res again. Refill with your regularly scheduled nutes or water and let the timer do its thing.
I hope this helps.
Keep on Growin!!
3. If you are experiencing Nutrient Lockout. Usually (NOT ALWAYS!) when you have a dramatic nutrient imbalance the cure is not to try to figure out the exact one, but flush the plants, and add a fresh WELL BALANCED and MEDIUM STRENGTH dose of nutes. Now don't go flushing at every burned leaf or tinge of yellow. Use common sense. But if you see dramatic problems, and there are no obvious signs of another problem like heat, cold, grey goop in the res, root rot, etc - then its prolly not a bad idea to flush the plants and re-fill the res.
Now that you understand the WHAT, WHY and WHEN of flushing - let's talk turkey and get to the HOW.
I have experience with the 3 basic techniques: Plain Water, Water with extremely low nutes, and Clearex - there is a time and place for all of them and the method is basically the same. And remember if you have plants in multiple containers - feel free to experiment with multiple methods on the same grow.
I use Clearex and will describe that method in detail. Clearex is a brand name flush from Botanicare. Many folks use plain water or a very, very mild nutrient/water mix just as effectively. I won't try to make a suggestion on ppm for what a very light mix is, but let me tell a quick story to illustrate.
I had 5 plants in 5G soil that were ready for harvest. I thought. 4 plants did indeed finish in the next 4 or 5 days after the Clearex flush and it was perfect. They tasted great after an 8 day dry and 2 week cure.
The fifth plant, however, was not quite finished. So I decided to give it one more feeding, then wait three days, then flush again using the low ppm method as a test. All the plants had been receiving about 1250ppm the week before. So I fed this one 750ppm with very little runoff. Then three days later I gave it 100ppm with about 50% runoff. Then 4 days later I gave it plain water with about 50% runoff. Then 3 days later I cut it. So the timeline at the end was: Wed - Clearex 5 plants; Sun - Chop 4, feed 1 750; Thurs - feed 100; Sunday - plain water; Wed - Chop. This was wrong. I had not allowed enough time at the end, nor used enough plain water.
I dried that plant exactly the same 8-10 days as the others - 'til her stems snapped fine, then the cure. After a two week cure the smoke was still extremely harsh on the exhale, and the buds crackled when burned. BTW - this is the sure sign of a bad cure or flush - if the smoke tastes fine on the way in but becomes ridiculously harsh on the way out. So I put that bud back in to cure and left it for the last to be smoked. six weeks of curing later - for a total of TWO MONTHS OF CURING - it was still snap, crackle pop and tasted harsh. So I can't give you an estimate on what low ppm means, but I can tell you what I did was NOT enough of a flush. Perhaps someone who uses the low ppm method effectively can add to this. Now back to our regularly scheduled program with a method that I have had 100% success with.
HOW TO:
Remember - when you are flushing, you are trying to get rid of that buildup of nutrients. Most of that buildup is NOT above the ground. You are trying to flush the roots and soil. So try to do it at the beginning or end of the day when you can mist the plants with plain water. This will lower their transpiration and keep them from sucking up more flush water than they need. This step is not required, but its on the Clearex label so I do it.
Step 1 - Drain your res and refill. Add Clearex at about 20-30ml / Gallon. pH balance to 5.7-6.2 depending on whether you're hydro or soil.
Step 2 - Run this mix through your plants. If you are doing containers you want to achieve significant runoff. Far more than your standard watering. The bottle calls for AT LEAST 80-90% runoff. So if you have a 5 gallon pot, you will want to put 3-6 Gallons of water through depending on how dry the soil is when you flush, and how much drainage. With a little experience with your soil you can skip the rest of the steps and call it done right there. If you really want to be sure then use the ppm measuring described below.
If you are doing hydro, saturate the system for 5-15 minutes then allow it to drain back to the res. No need to drain the res.
Step 3 - Measure the ppm of the runoff.
Step 4 - Run the same Clearex/water through again.
Step 5 - Again measure the ppm of the runoff. The ppm should be the same or higher than the first time. This is because you are sucking all those excess nutes out.
Step 6 - Keep repeating this cycle until you see little to no change on the ppm. For me this is usually two times, sometimes three.
That's it!
Now drain the res again. Refill with your regularly scheduled nutes or water and let the timer do its thing.
I hope this helps.
Keep on Growin!!
- Thread starter
- #80
luckily i dont think these girls are going to grow over 12". i know lsting would make them shorter than topping, but how many inches do you think topping would take off?
i agree about that guys flushing technique. luckily i think my medium is OK right now.
here they are today, day 40
i agree about that guys flushing technique. luckily i think my medium is OK right now.
here they are today, day 40
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