subd sorry the hydro didn't work out this time for you
J189RFC 400W Hydroton Lyriders + Outdoor
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- #22
J189RFC
New Member
Glad to have you!
I must have lucked out on the nutes last time. it was a MG 20-20-20 formula from 20 years ago ahaha, and that was bio available in hydro... This time I didn't even think to check on the actual break down of the nutrients and, well, to say the least, they work GREAT for soil!
Also, I don't know, maybe I'm using it wrong but I really don't like kelp meal. It's expensive and doesn't have a lot to offer. Fish emulsion on the other hand! Also I am going to re do the "grow journal log" that I failed miserably! Pictures very soon, probably later today!!!
I must have lucked out on the nutes last time. it was a MG 20-20-20 formula from 20 years ago ahaha, and that was bio available in hydro... This time I didn't even think to check on the actual break down of the nutrients and, well, to say the least, they work GREAT for soil!
Also, I don't know, maybe I'm using it wrong but I really don't like kelp meal. It's expensive and doesn't have a lot to offer. Fish emulsion on the other hand! Also I am going to re do the "grow journal log" that I failed miserably! Pictures very soon, probably later today!!!
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- #23
J189RFC
New Member
What strain is it? Joint Doctors LowRyder #1
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? (NLxWilly Wonder) x Ruderalis
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Auto Flower Perpetual rotation
If in Veg... For how long? 17-20 days avg
If in Flower stage... For how long? 40-45 days average
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil
If soil... what is in your mix? 40%loam, 20% manure 20% peat, 10% perlite, 10% organic material and fertilizers
Bone meal, blood mean, kelp meal, powdered glacial rock, compost
If soil... What size pot? mixed, planning on getting 10-16 square 2L pots
Size of light? 400w HPS
Is it aircooled? No
Temp of Room/cab? 2 degrees above house avg 75F (23celcius)
RH of Room/cab? N/A
PH of media or res? ~6.5 ?
Any Pests ? no
How often are you watering? Daily/ 2 days
Type and strength of ferts used? 1/2 strength genereal 20-20-20 , 10-30-15 bloom , epson salts, fish emulsion 5-1-1, flowering misc fert 18-24-12.
Ideal # of plants: 10 fem
Any questions please ask, So far I believe I have a "fairly" stable lowryder. HOW EVER! There were 2 mutations out of 10, and 2 died meaning that 1/4 plants had a mutation. One auto flowered at node 3, 2 weeks in and is stunted (stunting may have cause the advance of the auto flower characteristic)
And the other one, which I have seen in other lowryder grows, the triple pheno! I really like this. It's hardy, bushy strong and has more bud sites, soooo I kept the male and am hoping to pass this off to subsequent seeds. If I bread for this characteristic I should be able to make a stable genotype by next summer.
Follow this thread, cause it is going to get out of control!
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? (NLxWilly Wonder) x Ruderalis
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Auto Flower Perpetual rotation
If in Veg... For how long? 17-20 days avg
If in Flower stage... For how long? 40-45 days average
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil
If soil... what is in your mix? 40%loam, 20% manure 20% peat, 10% perlite, 10% organic material and fertilizers
Bone meal, blood mean, kelp meal, powdered glacial rock, compost
If soil... What size pot? mixed, planning on getting 10-16 square 2L pots
Size of light? 400w HPS
Is it aircooled? No
Temp of Room/cab? 2 degrees above house avg 75F (23celcius)
RH of Room/cab? N/A
PH of media or res? ~6.5 ?
Any Pests ? no
How often are you watering? Daily/ 2 days
Type and strength of ferts used? 1/2 strength genereal 20-20-20 , 10-30-15 bloom , epson salts, fish emulsion 5-1-1, flowering misc fert 18-24-12.
Ideal # of plants: 10 fem
Any questions please ask, So far I believe I have a "fairly" stable lowryder. HOW EVER! There were 2 mutations out of 10, and 2 died meaning that 1/4 plants had a mutation. One auto flowered at node 3, 2 weeks in and is stunted (stunting may have cause the advance of the auto flower characteristic)
And the other one, which I have seen in other lowryder grows, the triple pheno! I really like this. It's hardy, bushy strong and has more bud sites, soooo I kept the male and am hoping to pass this off to subsequent seeds. If I bread for this characteristic I should be able to make a stable genotype by next summer.
Follow this thread, cause it is going to get out of control!
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- #24
J189RFC
New Member
What did I tell you! PHOTOS!
very nice
I believe i see pistils in one of your photographs.
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- #27
J189RFC
New Member
Yes you do! They have all been positively sexed, 50/50 split perfectly!
I am very excited as we get into the next phase although I am worried about the tiny gal. I don't want any of those genetics. Not that shes going to yield anything substantial, but still, I don't want her seeding. Might have to give her an old fashioned ziplock greenhouse!
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- #28
J189RFC
New Member
I figured I would post this here too! I always do a once over when starting over or developing another room. Let me know if I should add anything. Might turn this into an actual check list. What do you thing guys n gals?
HOW TO TEST YOUR GROW ROOM
BEFORE YOU PLANT ANYTHING!
Run only lamps for 1 hour, test heat and conditions in the room.
Run lamps for 2-8H with everything else test conditions
During testing I usually take this time to make a list of equipment or supplies I need. I fill up all my hydro baskets, make sure I have enough perlite/verm. Did I use the rest of the 20-20-20? How long has the bulb been running (in total H ) should I get a spare? How did the last one work out, can I make it better. Has my water ph changed? How is this going to look in 45-60 days? Do I need more charcoal? Etc Etc Etc. Run over the entire process all the way to you smoking it. It not only a visualization tool for positive success but it also helps prevent problems that may pop up.
So now your over half way done your test. If you have time, add a male or some random house plant in there for a full day(if using a house plant raise light to double recommended height!) And remember to keep checking the heat, humidity, listen for weirdness, look at everything almost under the microscope.
Now I hear you over there going Wow, so anal, why all the fuss? I am not one who likes to run out of something, or have something go wrong half way. Something goes wrong you could come home to fire or police or etc. You could come home and have nothing going on in your box in the middle of flower. Whole batches have been wasted through lack of prep and lack of testing.
HOW TO TEST YOUR GROW ROOM
BEFORE YOU PLANT ANYTHING!
Run only lamps for 1 hour, test heat and conditions in the room.
Run lamps for 2-8H with everything else test conditions
During testing I usually take this time to make a list of equipment or supplies I need. I fill up all my hydro baskets, make sure I have enough perlite/verm. Did I use the rest of the 20-20-20? How long has the bulb been running (in total H ) should I get a spare? How did the last one work out, can I make it better. Has my water ph changed? How is this going to look in 45-60 days? Do I need more charcoal? Etc Etc Etc. Run over the entire process all the way to you smoking it. It not only a visualization tool for positive success but it also helps prevent problems that may pop up.
So now your over half way done your test. If you have time, add a male or some random house plant in there for a full day(if using a house plant raise light to double recommended height!) And remember to keep checking the heat, humidity, listen for weirdness, look at everything almost under the microscope.
Now I hear you over there going Wow, so anal, why all the fuss? I am not one who likes to run out of something, or have something go wrong half way. Something goes wrong you could come home to fire or police or etc. You could come home and have nothing going on in your box in the middle of flower. Whole batches have been wasted through lack of prep and lack of testing.
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- #29
J189RFC
New Member
Also a quick update on the girls! So as you may have noticed from my last post the girls are all different sizes so so make sure that the canopy was fairly even I elevated the smallest one and tied down the biggest one with LST. Shes getting so tall! Almost 11 inches now! So many off shoots! I'm excited! We have 30-40 days left. Still waiting for the males to pop. I want some seeds and I am willing to wait!
I don't think it has anything to do with being "anal"
its more a matter of being prepared
but on the other hand if someone hasn't done it before you don't wanna go overboard on things cause you actually might miss on things
good to do checks but can you really have extras of everything you need? is it feasible? and
theres always things that make you go hmm
what I mean is the unforeseen stuff just a thought I mean reps on you wanting to be prepared one can never be prepared enough
its more a matter of being prepared
but on the other hand if someone hasn't done it before you don't wanna go overboard on things cause you actually might miss on things
good to do checks but can you really have extras of everything you need? is it feasible? and
theres always things that make you go hmm
what I mean is the unforeseen stuff just a thought I mean reps on you wanting to be prepared one can never be prepared enough
Scarfinger68
New Member
Looking good. I like your versatility/flexibility going from a hydro to soil as needed.
+reps for saving the crop
+reps for saving the crop
hello my friend, seen your post in the mom page and thought id come over and check your grow,
nice work flipping to soil, i grow in soil and do the odd dwc grow which works out well,
your plants look great
so ill jump along for the ride if thats ok, plus im also in the process of making my own strains, ive crossed a few strains and produced my own fem seeds, at the minute im working on some ken estes gdp cross with purple cheese auto, 1/4 of the seeds will be auto so my plans are to produce an auto gdp cheese and a regular gdp cheese, but its a slow process and ill need to pick out the autos and cross the best male and female to produce auto seeds, then i can start working on the pheno types, the only problem with autos is you cant back cross as you cant clone the best female so its a longer process to produce a nice auto, but hopefully ill got a nice gdp cheese,
the regular seeds from that batch i can work with and back cross to try and make it more stable but again its a slow process,
what are your plants for breeding are you just producing seeds for future grows or do you plant on perfecting your own strain, sounds like you go a good idea as your not crossing the weaker female,
so if you dont mind ill follow along and see how you get on with crossing them, its something ive been interesting in for a while now, ive just finished collecting pollen from a kc45 auto male as its a huge male so good genetics to cross with, ive got a kc45 female auto growing so will produce more kc45 auto seeds but ive also got an auto bubble fem growing as well so depending on how it grows i might cross that with the kc45 male to produce an auto cross but getting a stable auto is going to be tough,
but im up for a challenge so willing to carry on with my experiments and crossing attempts.
have you done any crossing before is this something you have done for a while. so far ive got good results and produced some very nice plants, ive sent seeds to a few friends so they can try the plants as i dont always get time to grow them out as much as id like to get a good picture of the end results, at least if others try my seeds then i can get a good idea of how its working or not working depending on the results, so its good to see another grower actually growing to produce seeds.
nice work flipping to soil, i grow in soil and do the odd dwc grow which works out well,
your plants look great
so ill jump along for the ride if thats ok, plus im also in the process of making my own strains, ive crossed a few strains and produced my own fem seeds, at the minute im working on some ken estes gdp cross with purple cheese auto, 1/4 of the seeds will be auto so my plans are to produce an auto gdp cheese and a regular gdp cheese, but its a slow process and ill need to pick out the autos and cross the best male and female to produce auto seeds, then i can start working on the pheno types, the only problem with autos is you cant back cross as you cant clone the best female so its a longer process to produce a nice auto, but hopefully ill got a nice gdp cheese,
the regular seeds from that batch i can work with and back cross to try and make it more stable but again its a slow process,
what are your plants for breeding are you just producing seeds for future grows or do you plant on perfecting your own strain, sounds like you go a good idea as your not crossing the weaker female,
so if you dont mind ill follow along and see how you get on with crossing them, its something ive been interesting in for a while now, ive just finished collecting pollen from a kc45 auto male as its a huge male so good genetics to cross with, ive got a kc45 female auto growing so will produce more kc45 auto seeds but ive also got an auto bubble fem growing as well so depending on how it grows i might cross that with the kc45 male to produce an auto cross but getting a stable auto is going to be tough,
but im up for a challenge so willing to carry on with my experiments and crossing attempts.
have you done any crossing before is this something you have done for a while. so far ive got good results and produced some very nice plants, ive sent seeds to a few friends so they can try the plants as i dont always get time to grow them out as much as id like to get a good picture of the end results, at least if others try my seeds then i can get a good idea of how its working or not working depending on the results, so its good to see another grower actually growing to produce seeds.
Happy THCursday J
FirstOutGrow
Well-Known Member
Congratulation on your girls, take good care of them and be well rewarded
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- #35
J189RFC
New Member
Thanks everyone for stopping in! I'll try and answer as many questions now, but don't worry anything I miss I will get with the weekend update!Scarfinger
Thank you! I am very suprised at how quick they bounced back! Like they were in there almost a week, slow root growth, no new growth and lots of slow yellowing. It was so sad. But now, oh man wait till you see these monsters! They got so big they are all LST'ed!
Don
I would totally pick up some auto cheeze mixes. I get some original cheeze from time to time and I love that stuff. Way too much flavor it's like smoking a doritos chip!
I do want to work on my own perfect little stealth/guerrila strain, but for now it's just for future grows. Of course I will pick the best genetics. Like the 3 leafed muty. I love that mutation, it looks better, grows stronger, has more bud sites etc. Ready for the best part? So far, no signs of hermaphrodism from either side
.I don't know how I am going to prevent the tiny gal from getting seeded probably put a bag over her today, but I am worried about bud rot. I am probably just going to be lazy about it and let her seed. Then I have some guerrilla mountain crops to sew.
I do have a little bag seed baby growing on else where but I am still at least a week away from seeing some pre flowers. so we will see!
This would mark the first time going through with a seed run, but I am fairly confident in my gardening techniques. I have conferred with other growers and they say my timing is ok!
Thanks Chronic!
big update this weekend!Thanks FOG, these are gonna me lovely!
if thats what you want to go with then why not, just remember a little pollen goes along way. covering one plant with a big will cause pm issues if left on to long, plus pollen gets everywhere and its hard to kill unless the whole plant and area is sprayed down with water, water will stop the pollen being viable but a male produces lots of pollen and just 1 or 2 flowers opening can turn a whole plant to seed.
plus pollen can travle a good mile to 2 miles outdoors or some im told by strain hunters, so a little goes a long way, but if you want seeds for future grows then its worth doing,
if you just wanted to produce some seed and have the rest of the plant seed free then remove the male from the grow room a few days to a week before the pollen sacs open, just put it in a room getting natural light and it dont need to be 12-12 either, i take males out the flower room once i can see the pollen sacs getting bigger, they open when their pretty small so you need to keep an eye on them if using this method, but basically if you take the male out the flower room before the pollen sacs open then you can out it under natural light in the corner of a room, it dont need much light plus it dont matter if the light is more than 12-12 as the pollen sacs will open and fall off before the plant goes back into veg,
so i take my males out and let them mature near a window, then i keep checking them and when i see an open pollen sac i get an old fish flake food tub and hold this under the male flower and then either bend the plant over gently to get the pollen over the tub or if the flower is over the tub then just give the plant a couple of gentle taps and the pollen will fall in the tub, just make sure their is no fans or anything like that or windows open and you can then collect pollen without it getting in the air and spreading.
once ive collected enough pollen which is usually 7 days of collecting after the 1st pollen sac opens, then i kill the male and bin it as its not needed once you got the pollen, then i bring the female in to the room with the pollen and use a little paint brush or small make up brush then just dab it in the pollen and gently brush it over the pistils, i usually leave the top of the plant seed free so ive still got a nice plant to harvest and plenty to smoke, i put the pollen on all the lower buds and small node growths that have white pistils, just gently brush it over, you wont see anything but as long as you have touched the pistils then their is pollen on them, do this will all the buds you want seeds from and then leave the plant where it is for a couple of hours, i leave mine 4 hours so i know the pollen has had time to do its magic, then spray the whole plant with water and let it dry before putting back in flower room, this method can get you anything from 30 seeds up to 200 or more depending on how many bud sites you want seeds from,
its an easy process and really pays off, it gives you plenty of seeds for future grows and with that many seeds you can then start picking out pheno types and working with the best plants from that batch of seeds, its really paid off for me, ive managed to help friends out by giving them 100 or more seeds each so they can try the crosses and try other strains ive produced seeds from,
plus pollen can travle a good mile to 2 miles outdoors or some im told by strain hunters, so a little goes a long way, but if you want seeds for future grows then its worth doing,
if you just wanted to produce some seed and have the rest of the plant seed free then remove the male from the grow room a few days to a week before the pollen sacs open, just put it in a room getting natural light and it dont need to be 12-12 either, i take males out the flower room once i can see the pollen sacs getting bigger, they open when their pretty small so you need to keep an eye on them if using this method, but basically if you take the male out the flower room before the pollen sacs open then you can out it under natural light in the corner of a room, it dont need much light plus it dont matter if the light is more than 12-12 as the pollen sacs will open and fall off before the plant goes back into veg,
so i take my males out and let them mature near a window, then i keep checking them and when i see an open pollen sac i get an old fish flake food tub and hold this under the male flower and then either bend the plant over gently to get the pollen over the tub or if the flower is over the tub then just give the plant a couple of gentle taps and the pollen will fall in the tub, just make sure their is no fans or anything like that or windows open and you can then collect pollen without it getting in the air and spreading.
once ive collected enough pollen which is usually 7 days of collecting after the 1st pollen sac opens, then i kill the male and bin it as its not needed once you got the pollen, then i bring the female in to the room with the pollen and use a little paint brush or small make up brush then just dab it in the pollen and gently brush it over the pistils, i usually leave the top of the plant seed free so ive still got a nice plant to harvest and plenty to smoke, i put the pollen on all the lower buds and small node growths that have white pistils, just gently brush it over, you wont see anything but as long as you have touched the pistils then their is pollen on them, do this will all the buds you want seeds from and then leave the plant where it is for a couple of hours, i leave mine 4 hours so i know the pollen has had time to do its magic, then spray the whole plant with water and let it dry before putting back in flower room, this method can get you anything from 30 seeds up to 200 or more depending on how many bud sites you want seeds from,
its an easy process and really pays off, it gives you plenty of seeds for future grows and with that many seeds you can then start picking out pheno types and working with the best plants from that batch of seeds, its really paid off for me, ive managed to help friends out by giving them 100 or more seeds each so they can try the crosses and try other strains ive produced seeds from,
you know what really annoys me though, the cost of seeds,
now you can get thousands of seeds from one big plant, a room full of seeded plants can produce 10s of thousands, so why do some seeds cost as little as £0.75 and some fetch £50.00 plus per seed,
fair enough it might sound better but ive seen some amazing looking strains for next to nothing, theirs a nice ice strain i bought the other day, the pics show buds that are totaly white and look like they been snowed on, the other one i bought looked totally black with black leaves, again another cheap strain, then when you check out the expensive strains they dont look any nicer than the cheap strains,
so why does 1 seed cost 100 times more than another seed, i could understand if some strains was hard to cross male and female to produce stable seeds but their easy to cross, i know it might take some time to produce a good batch of seeds but once you have produced the stable seeds then why would they cost anymore than other seeds,
fair enough fem seeds cost more but the price from the cheap seeds to the expensive seeds differs by lots, ive paid for expensive strains and not been impressed with the results, then i grew kc45 auto and produced 2oz of some knockout auto bud, it was much better than more expensive autos, so i cant see how they work out their prices, fair enough if the cheap seeds did very poor and had poor gentics but they dont, ive had some very nice strains that costs next to nothing, so not sure how they justify their prices,
but then if i did get as far as producing my own strain and i said its £100 per seed then im sure someone out their will buy it thinking its the best strain in the world as its priced high, so i know some are juts huge mark ups to make buyers actually want to try them but if they lowered the prices then more people would buy and more money they would get,
now you can get thousands of seeds from one big plant, a room full of seeded plants can produce 10s of thousands, so why do some seeds cost as little as £0.75 and some fetch £50.00 plus per seed,
fair enough it might sound better but ive seen some amazing looking strains for next to nothing, theirs a nice ice strain i bought the other day, the pics show buds that are totaly white and look like they been snowed on, the other one i bought looked totally black with black leaves, again another cheap strain, then when you check out the expensive strains they dont look any nicer than the cheap strains,
so why does 1 seed cost 100 times more than another seed, i could understand if some strains was hard to cross male and female to produce stable seeds but their easy to cross, i know it might take some time to produce a good batch of seeds but once you have produced the stable seeds then why would they cost anymore than other seeds,
fair enough fem seeds cost more but the price from the cheap seeds to the expensive seeds differs by lots, ive paid for expensive strains and not been impressed with the results, then i grew kc45 auto and produced 2oz of some knockout auto bud, it was much better than more expensive autos, so i cant see how they work out their prices, fair enough if the cheap seeds did very poor and had poor gentics but they dont, ive had some very nice strains that costs next to nothing, so not sure how they justify their prices,
but then if i did get as far as producing my own strain and i said its £100 per seed then im sure someone out their will buy it thinking its the best strain in the world as its priced high, so i know some are juts huge mark ups to make buyers actually want to try them but if they lowered the prices then more people would buy and more money they would get,
gotta agree with you on the seeds Don
I bought some expensive ones and theres at least a couple I feel like I spent too much and it wasn't worth it
then there was the free seeds that yea cost a bit but not as much as the expensive ones and some of those were more impressive
I bought some expensive ones and theres at least a couple I feel like I spent too much and it wasn't worth it
then there was the free seeds that yea cost a bit but not as much as the expensive ones and some of those were more impressive
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- #39
J189RFC
New Member
I can't believe how wide price disparity with seeds has become! You used to be able to get 10 packs of anything from 20-80$ 20$ stuff was mediocre indoors, for 40 you could get nirvana ice and some other nice varieties at 80 you were looking at landraces, willy wonder, canabis cup winners. I've seen seeds as high as 40$ EACH! What a lucrative market.
Best part is that anyone can become a recognized breeders. RezDog back in the day developed some fairly stable strains in his closet. It was ridiculous, but he did really well for himself.
Oh well, what do you do. Thanks for all the tips and tricks. I will have to take them into consideration next time as the male has popped 2 or more flowers already haha. Not worried though. I'm going to bag the rest of the flowers in the next day or so just so that once the other lady shows her stuff I can get her knocked up too! I was hoping my other seeds would be here by now as to increase chances of getting seeds of that batch. I'll figure it out when I get there though! I am afraid though that the triple leaf will only appear in males and herms... Is this an unreasonable assumption? In humans we have that were it is Y chromosome dependent traits meaning only dudes and hermaphrodite women get it. Xy, XXy. Any one able to elaborate on genetics or should I hit up the other forums?
ALSO! UPDATES RIGHT AWAY!
Best part is that anyone can become a recognized breeders. RezDog back in the day developed some fairly stable strains in his closet. It was ridiculous, but he did really well for himself.
Oh well, what do you do. Thanks for all the tips and tricks. I will have to take them into consideration next time as the male has popped 2 or more flowers already haha. Not worried though. I'm going to bag the rest of the flowers in the next day or so just so that once the other lady shows her stuff I can get her knocked up too! I was hoping my other seeds would be here by now as to increase chances of getting seeds of that batch. I'll figure it out when I get there though! I am afraid though that the triple leaf will only appear in males and herms... Is this an unreasonable assumption? In humans we have that were it is Y chromosome dependent traits meaning only dudes and hermaphrodite women get it. Xy, XXy. Any one able to elaborate on genetics or should I hit up the other forums?
ALSO! UPDATES RIGHT AWAY!
- Thread starter
- #40
J189RFC
New Member
Saturday update with another probably tomorrow. I am wondering why there are not more bud sites on my plants. They have been stretching, showing alt nodes, flowers at nodes, but no actual flowering yet... This thing might run a little long, but thats ok. Since the male three leaf popped his flowers today I'll take him out tomorrow and bag the good stuff for other seed experiments. So 30 days from tomorrow I will chop everything down. I've been told, and from my research, 30 days is good time frame for seed production. I might chop at 25 and let the rest happen during drying. You can do it with other plants, why not this one?
OK Photo time!
And I took a couple more artsy ones, oops, happens sometimes when I
I wasn't kidding when I said they got huge! All the LR I've ever seen never got bigger than popscicles. If I don't get a couple ounces from these 3 beauties then I did something wrong....
OK Photo time!
And I took a couple more artsy ones, oops, happens sometimes when I
I wasn't kidding when I said they got huge! All the LR I've ever seen never got bigger than popscicles. If I don't get a couple ounces from these 3 beauties then I did something wrong....