I've a new light, but how bright? What's right? I'm a bit up tight! Request for insight

[nivek]

Let's not jump on the vendor here. QBs can be driven at max power, but lifetime suffers when you drive them max, so most vendors seem to be underpowering the config's they're pumping out to the market.
In Tead's eye, it's a good thing. I fully realize all my fancy new QBs are not pumping out their max because the driver can't put that much out. It means my lights will live much longer and I'm very happy with that configuration.

interesting angle Tead,, cheers

seems suppliers are routinely sending under powered drivers with these powerful lights,, perhaps good reasons for doing so

but an email inquirey will absolutely be sent,, i am not going to underpower this light unless there is sound reasoning behind it. this combination was an upgrade so this combination was someones idea of the proper combination,, supposedly

many thanks for the info,, agin

i am sure it is not a dimmer issue,, as i stated, the dimmer absolutely dims , and the dimmer is soldered in there,, not commin out ,,and as i stated ,, the light is bright, just not mega solar blindingly bright.. as in, i dunna think i could get welders flash from it,, but i would not look right at it full power

a work in progress i guess,, cheers and merry christmas friends

 

[nivek]

interesting observation already,, two days of data conclusion,, totally scientific,, but,, with the driver mounted outside the grow area,, my grow area is running four or five degrees cooler,, a definite bonus

 

[Tead]

Soldered ehh..... too bad. You could just cut one wire and reconnect it when done, but I can understand how folks are not as comfortable with such ideas as I am. My kit came mostly unconnected with a bunch of WAGO lever connectors that are super easy to work with. I can just unhook my dimmers or any other connections as needed.

I've used the android light meter apps. They work... tho numbers mean nothing and it's all a relative measuring process.
I'd be curious to put a percentage number on the 2 light's outputs. One could kind of do that with the android or iphone apps.

 

[nivek]

Soldered ehh..... too bad. You could just cut one wire and reconnect it when done, but I can understand how folks are not as comfortable with such ideas as I am. My kit came mostly unconnected with a bunch of WAGO lever connectors that are super easy to work with. I can just unhook my dimmers or any other connections as needed.

I've used the android light meter apps. They work... tho numbers mean nothing and it's all a relative measuring process.
I'd be curious to put a percentage number on the 2 light's outputs. One could kind of do that with the android or iphone apps.

so you are suggesting that i cut the dimmer wires and connect the two togwther to bypass the dimmer,, and check the brightness then??

yes, i could do that,, i might as a last resource, if my conclusions determine my light output is underpowered

for now,, an inquirie will be made to the manufacturer, and i will await one fine member to perform the test i suggested at the beginning of this thread

and i will ponder lovingly at the subtle white light that envelops my most appreciating plants

they really do look so nice,, in true colour,, cept for the bug bites

 

[Tead]

so you are suggesting that i cut the dimmer wires and connect the two togwther to bypass the dimmer,, and check the brightness then??

yes, i could do that,, i might as a last resource, if my conclusions determine my light output is underpowered

for now,, an inquirie will be made to the manufacturer, and i will await one fine member to perform the test i suggested at the beginning of this thread

and i will ponder lovingly at the subtle white light that envelops my most appreciating plants

they really do look so nice,, in true colour,, cept for the bug bites

DON'T CONNECT THE 2 WIRES TOGETHER.

The manual for the drivers specifically says not to do that.
Without dimming input, the drivers run at full. Simply disconnecting 1 of the 2 dimmer wires would achieve this.

 

[nivek]

cheers

 

[dakotamoon]

Fascinating stuff on diodes: [Does pulsing an LED at higher current yield greater apparent brightness?] It's not just more current, the manufacturer also has to worry about "duty cycle", and other parameters.

 

[Sir Digby]

Hey Niv, been busy for the holidays, just now seeing your post. Hope all is going well out your way, and Merry Christmas!

With that driver on 3 pucks they should be running at 79 watts according Chilled's chart. That's the same wattage my 4 pucks run at but obviously the output between 3 and 4 pucks is a little different.

I'm in a 2x4 space with 4 pucks, you're in a 3x2.5 space. Only about a half square foot difference. Just mathematically you should be pumping out 844 ppfd average in that space. (Total wattage x efficacy rate) / square meters will give you your average. Those three pucks are 237 watts total, 2.48 is the efficacy rate according to manufacturer running at that current, and your space is .696 square meters.

The same math puts me at 1,059 ppfd with the extra puck. Naturally mine will be a little brighter with the extra puck vs grow space, but I would think 844 would still be pretty bright in that space.

I'm no expert on wiring or what could be causing problems there, that's part of the reason I paid the extra for assembly. I still haven't turned mine all the way up, and they can strain the eyes looking into the tent for too long. The plants seem to like them as well.

 

[Sir Digby]

Took me a little bit to find a piece of lined paper but here's a picture like the one you requested. Manual, 100 iso, 1/60th shutter, and f11. Light around 20" from the paper.

again, my lights are naturally a little more powerful but this is also dialed down to around 75-80%. Hope it helps friend

light test.JPG

• Sir Digby
• Dec 24, 2018

 

[nivek]

cheers sir dig,, and a merry christmas to you as well

thanks for chimin in, indeed,, great info,, and, an experimentor,, like me,, cheers

sheesh,, you spew them numbers like they live on your tongue,, great stuff,, again,, indeed

just to be clear, re, my post here,, i am not sure there is any problem at all with the equipment,, i think the problem is with me,, my expectations,, a bit too high i think

the light is bright,, oh yes,,

i think your test results are somewhat relatable and comparable to mine,, least it's not night and day different,, thx for this

tead,, cheers for the ideas,,

chris,, many thanks as well

i downloaded the lux meter app, and as tead mentioned, the numbers really are irrelevant, but it is useful for comparison purposes, and the app seems to have some sensitivity as well

so i did the test, with dimmer still attached , then snip snip,, and redid the test,, and the numbers were absolutely comparably the same,, so, no dimmer issue,, and as a matter of fact,, the light measures a bit brighter with the dimmer switch attached and cranked,, around 8500 on the meter for what ever that's worth, 20 inches away

dakotamoon,, thx for the link,, i did read a bit of it,, enuf to see them talkin about perhaps not setting to full power,,

things making more sense all the time,,

cheers friends,, merry christmas

 

[nivek]

just a side note,, the lux meter,, a reading outside, today, very overcast,, a reading of 1750,, as compared to 8500 under the light, full power,,
nice, i guess

ok,, an hr or so later,, some blue in the sky,, reading 2500

i feel a bit better,, i think,, tho not sure if i should,,but i do

 

[Skybound]

Another crucial detail why they recommended your kit be configured that way is because you have 140mm passive pin heat sinks and they can only dissipate 80 watts of heat max. If you drove those pucks to the full 2800ma, you'd likely burn them out unless you had active cooling. If you troll around on Digikey or other electronics dealers, you can find a lot of active cooling options that will replace our pinned heatsinks and they can wisk away the heat into the surrounding area, unless you make something of a cool tube or other means of discarding heat quickly. Though active cooling requires a fan per heatsink which increases your wires by 6 more, and those fans need a different voltage so you'd have to work that out, and some more yada yada yada and you can appreciate the simplicity of the passive pinned heat sinks which are very difficult to locate on the web ironicly. But those active coolers are very easy to find and price.

I suggest getting your output up to 100%, and observe driver temps and heat sink temps. Common sense will tell you if you're pushing either too hard. 20" away from the canopy is plenty, so I doubt the intensity would manifest in slowed growth.

Did you get your kit from Rapid? I was only able to locate their 4 puck kit for $449.

 

[Raymont]

Let's not jump on the vendor here. QBs can be driven at max power, but lifetime suffers when you drive them max, so most vendors seem to be underpowering the config's they're pumping out to the market.
In Tead's eye, it's a good thing. I fully realize all my fancy new QBs are not pumping out their max because the driver can't put that much out. It means my lights will live much longer and I'm very happy with that configuration.

Everyone seems to be concerned and under power their lights for longevity. Im not an "electrical guy" Ive learned just enought to be dangerous..lol..Can anyone quantify the difference between running a driver at 100% as opposed to say 80?...or 60...Is longevity a real issue ? I paid 200 bucks for chinese lights. 2 years for what i paid makes me happy..I just want 2 years per light..THoughts?

 

[Tead]

Everyone seems to be concerned and under power their lights for longevity. Im not an "electrical guy" Ive learned just enought to be dangerous..lol..Can anyone quantify the difference between running a driver at 100% as opposed to say 80?...or 60...Is longevity a real issue ? I paid 200 bucks for chinese lights. 2 years for what i paid makes me happy..I just want 2 years per light..THoughts?

Well.... I'm no electrical engineer, but I might wonder if your 'chinese light' vendor (all lights have probably been produced in China for many years) already took care of it and gave you a panel with about 10% more capacity than your driver produces? My vendor in China sent me exactly that configuration... that's all they had for sale.... I might suspect this is the standard. If i wanted to actually power the panels to full capacity, I would have needed to special order a larger ballast.
Check your numbers.... I bet you're in the same boat and just don't realize it.

 

[Dankman_420]

If you guys don't mind me asking. How much money do you have invested in your lights

 

[Tead]

just a side note,, the lux meter,, a reading outside, today, very overcast,, a reading of 1750,, as compared to 8500 under the light, full power,,
nice, i guess

ok,, an hr or so later,, some blue in the sky,, reading 2500

i feel a bit better,, i think,, tho not sure if i should,,but i do

I pulled a $20 light meter outta Amz. Much better than the phone app.

If you guys don't mind me asking. How much money do you have invested in your lights

600w Qboard panel sets. 2 panels each set. Driver and various bits included. I picked up 8 sets at about $400 ea.

 

[Dankman_420]

I pulled a $20 light meter outta Amz. Much better than the phone app.



600w Qboard panel sets. 2 panels each set. Driver and various bits included. I picked up 8 sets at about $400 ea.

You have 3200$ in total

 

[Tead]

Yup... tough day for Tead's plastic.... but the results are stunning.

 

[Dankman_420]

Haha that's a workout for the plastic! Thanks for the info on pricing. I'm going to have to wait for lighting upgrade. I do appreciate the info

 

[Tead]

When you're ready, one generally purchases goods from China thru a website called 'alibaba.com' . They take care of all the crazy shipping and tariff details. There are tons of vendors of many products.... kind of like Amz. I purchased from Kitty at Meijiu Lighting. She was extremely knowledgeable and very helpful.