Is this a pH problem, or a Nitrogen problem, or a Broad Mite problem

[OneEyedWilly]

To All:

I realize that it's only possible to give a "guesstimate" of a probable cause as what a poster's deems important information, or how the poster "states" their observations may not perfectly convey exactly what is needed for readers like you to form a diagnosis. But thank you everyone who offered their help.

I have:
1) Corrected the pH problem
2) Increased Light to 24hrs...Will keep that on for 7 days
3) Have sprayed my girls with Insecticidal Soap that says it works on Spider Mites...Hopefully, if my problem is Broad Mites, it will work on them as well.

I can't think of anything else to do, but welcome any other suggestions.

 

[OneEyedWilly]

As soon as I saw your photos I was able to see what you were seeing and why you thought about Broad Mites. Some of the photos of damage caused by Russet Mites can look similar.


Were you able to apply the DE (Diatomaceous Earth) to the leaves themselves or just to the soil? Once the mite is in or on the leaf it is probably staying there.

Russet Mites seem to be easier to get under control and then eliminated. A sulfur sprays looks like a common treatment that works.

The Broad Mites are a different story. It looks like anything that controls that specie of Mite is also a systemic so it is absorbed by the plant and moves around whenever the plant is moving nutrients and sugars. If that is the case then the miticide ends up in the buds, including the sugar leaves, and stays there.

Thanks for your reply SmokingWings.

Do you have a name of a sulfur spray that works?

As of this date, I plan on vegging for 1.75 more months before switching to 12/12, so I hope that anything I apply today will have worked its way out of the plant by then.

I've read about using Neem Oil, which is plant based, to control mites...Any input on Neem Oil, or perhaps you have another treatment for Broad Mites?

 

[bluter]

Russet Mites seem to be easier to get under control and then eliminated. A sulfur sprays looks like a common treatment that works.

russets are a death knell. sprays don't affect them at all. they live inside the plant. sulphur burners can be used but are only used for outdoor as they are fire hazard. russets are the worst of all. infections can take multiple years to control.

 

[Sativa1970]

USB is just for cloning, ok, makes more sense.

Neem oil works well in veg but do not use it in flower. Any oil soap should be applied at lights out with extra air circulation through the plant. Several essential oils work for pests. Personally I prefer rosemary oil. Can use it at any point in the grow without tainting the buds and have had good results with spider mites. Only mite I have ever dealt with.

Just out of curiosity, how long did you veg your previous grows? Reveg should set you back 2-3 weeks so is this slower or close to normal for your setup? I'm in hydro but a 4 inch clone veg for 5 weeks is closer to 2 foot tall and ready for flower. Add 2-3 weeks if I took the clone from flower.

 

[OneEyedWilly]

USB is just for cloning, ok, makes more sense.

Neem oil works well in veg but do not use it in flower. Any oil soap should be applied at lights out with extra air circulation through the plant. Several essential oils work for pests. Personally I prefer rosemary oil. Can use it at any point in the grow without tainting the buds and have had good results with spider mites. Only mite I have ever dealt with.

Just out of curiosity, how long did you veg your previous grows? Reveg should set you back 2-3 weeks so is this slower or close to normal for your setup? I'm in hydro but a 4 inch clone veg for 5 weeks is closer to 2 foot tall and ready for flower. Add 2-3 weeks if I took the clone from flower.

I generally veg my plants for 8 weeks 18/6, topping them to try and achieve a SOG. I then switch to 12/12 for 6 weeks, followed by 1 week of water only, finishing up with 4 days no water.

Like I said...I've been thinking of getting a stronger LED system due to dismal harvests.

 

[Bill284]

Thanks for your reply Bill284.

I topped off the bad growth and looked, using my 120x magnifier) at both the top and bottom of the curled leaf.

I did NOT see any life. What I did see were tiny, perfectly circular, crystal clear (what looked like) "droplets". I also noticed that both sides were covered with clear trichome's (420_7), which would lend credibility to the revegging theory. The other thing to note was the the half of the leaves on the topped portion were wilted/soft/flabby and the other half were dry/crispy.

Was that the one I circled in my pic?
Or the top of something else?
You would see them with that scope.
Mite damage usually appears on leaves first.
That brown spot is concerning though.
You scope it?


Stay safe
Bill284


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[OneEyedWilly]

Was that the one I circled in my pic?
Or the top of something else?
You would see them with that scope.
Mite damage usually appears on leaves first.
That brown spot is concerning though.
You scope it?


Stay safe
Bill284


Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks once again for your reply.

From what I've read on BM's, the problems occur in the new growth leaves first which is what is shown in my pictures.

Yes, I saw the brown spot and thought the same. As stated, half of what I took off were wilted/sloppy leaves...The other half were dry and crispy.

The following images are from the leaf you circled.

BTW...How do mites transfer from one plant to another. I have DE about the soil of the planter, so this should prevent them from moving to another plant via the soil. I have also trimmed back ALL of the leaves, from and to the infected plant. If they are not air borne critters, then this should allow me to see if there is any improvement without any risk to the rest of her siblings...Right?

 

[OneEyedWilly]

USB is just for cloning, ok, makes more sense.

Neem oil works well in veg but do not use it in flower. Any oil soap should be applied at lights out with extra air circulation through the plant. Several essential oils work for pests. Personally I prefer rosemary oil. Can use it at any point in the grow without tainting the buds and have had good results with spider mites. Only mite I have ever dealt with.

Just out of curiosity, how long did you veg your previous grows? Reveg should set you back 2-3 weeks so is this slower or close to normal for your setup? I'm in hydro but a 4 inch clone veg for 5 weeks is closer to 2 foot tall and ready for flower. Add 2-3 weeks if I took the clone from flower.

As I only have my 1 tent, I have to raise the clones outside of the tent while the mothers are flowering and curing (9-10 weeks). I use the USB LED's which since they are extremely low power, only result in the daughters shooting 5-7 shoots and growing about 6 inches in those 9-10 weeks. Once my tent is freed up, I then 2 transplant daughters from their small containers into a 14in^3 square pot filled with soil.

There they grow @18/6 for 2 months, so I can top them to try to achieve a SOG. At the end of the 2 months, I first take new cuttings (for a new family of clones), and then switch the mothers in the tent to 12/12, for 7-8 weeks, before cutting them down to begin the 1-2 weeks of curing in the dark.

At the end of the cure, the new clones are 6 inches tall and ready to be transplanted into the tent.

 

[bluter]

BTW...How do mites transfer from one plant to another.

they mostly get blown around on air currents from place to place. they often travel into a grow on the growers clothes or body. they can be smaller than dust.

lots of times they get introduced when adding a clone from a dispensary or another grow.

I have DE about the soil of the planter, so this should prevent them from moving to another plant via the soil.

it won't do a thing for mites but it does prevent other pests.

I have also trimmed back ALL of the leaves, from and to the infected plant. If they are not air borne critters, then this should allow me to see if there is any improvement without any risk to the rest of her siblings...Right?

if you got them on one plant they'll be all through your grow. if the mother plant is isolated it might be ok but it's pretty doubtful. it's part of why i'm hesitant to call this mite damage.

 

[SmokingWings]

Thanks for your reply SmokingWings.

Do you have a name of a sulfur spray that works?

As of this date, I plan on vegging for 1.75 more months before switching to 12/12, so I hope that anything I apply today will have worked its way out of the plant by then.

I've read about using Neem Oil, which is plant based, to control mites...Any input on Neem Oil, or perhaps you have another treatment for Broad Mites?

Use google or your favorite search engine and do a search for:
how to treat for broad mites

and then do another search for:
how to treat for russet mites

I had done both searches yesterday and the search results for each type of mite will often have its own treatment. Sometimes the same thing can be recommended for either type of mite but when all is said and done each mite has a unique method.

Neem Oil is often used for insect control, especially in the vegetative stage. The sulfur was recommended for one type of mite and not the other.

Keep in mind that it is not recommended that the grower use Neem Oil and Sulfur together, or even within two or three weeks of each other. So if you spray with Neem and decide that you want to use Sulfur instead then you will have to wait at least two weeks of not spraying before trying the Sulfur. The thing is that there "might" be an interaction between the two. Sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't. And, that means doing a test spray on part of the plant to see if there is any unwanted reaction.

BTW...How do mites transfer from one plant to another.

Inside your tent or grow room it is mostly you transferring them. When you inspect one plant and move the leaves around to look at what is happening the mites can get on your skin or clothing. Then when you inspect the next one some of the mites will get from your skin or clothing to the new plant. If there are mites on one plant and the fan blows the air over that plant then some of the mites will be blown onto the next plant.

If a few mites fall off the plant they can crawl around and find the next plant and start living and laying eggs over there.

It is possible to win the war with the mites but it is not easy. It will require following a consistent schedule of treatments even if it seems the problem is gone.

Several years ago I had a problem that looked similar to the example photo of Broad Mite problems that you have in msg #12. The photo that shows the edges of each finger curling up so they look like a canoe. At first it was on only two plants but within a week it was on 4 plants. I had to start spraying 2 or 3 times a day for 3 or 4 days in a row, take a day off and repeat. After about 6 to 7 weeks I noticed that the new growth was no longer curling and was able to go back to a more normal preventative schedule.

I sprayed with Neem Oil for one week and then used Nuk 'Em the next week and back and forth like that. I sprayed the top and the underside of the canopy and from the soil line to the very top.

I have a perpetual grow going and still get outbreaks of Spider Mites but have not had any problems in several years with the leaves showing canoeing or any other signs that cause me to think that Russet or Broad Mites have returned.

 

[Sativa1970]

As I only have my 1 tent, I have to raise the clones outside of the tent while the mothers are flowering and curing (9-10 weeks). I use the USB LED's which since they are extremely low power, only result in the daughters shooting 5-7 shoots and growing about 6 inches in those 9-10 weeks. Once my tent is freed up, I then 2 transplant daughters from their small containers into a 14in^3 square pot filled with soil.

There they grow @18/6 for 2 months, so I can top them to try to achieve a SOG. At the end of the 2 months, I first take new cuttings (for a new family of clones), and then switch the mothers in the tent to 12/12, for 7-8 weeks, before cutting them down to begin the 1-2 weeks of curing in the dark.

At the end of the cure, the new clones are 6 inches tall and ready to be transplanted into the tent.

OK, so you normally run vary long veg times to accommodate your perpetual grow and space. So slow veg isn't a symptom of the plants problem in this case. That eliminates several possible problems and reinforces a slow reveg as at least part of the issue.

This is my 9week flower Panama perpetual. I cut this branch off Christmas eve. She is a 4 foot cube with 4 weeks left in flower. Less than 4 months from cutting to jar. The grow environment determines veg and reveg rates. That is why I asked what is "normal" for you.

 

[OneEyedWilly]

Thanks Sativa1970...Impressive garden.

A few questions about your rigging.

 

[OneEyedWilly]

An update on my DSDs (DoSiDos).

As noted, I started this thread because I was worried that I either had a pH problem or a Broad Mite infestation because the pictures I found on the Net looked exactly like my DSDs.

My farm seems to be on the mend and the only thing that would explain that happening in just a few days is that I corrected the pH problem...I trimmed all curled growth and no new curled leaves have appeared, and new the growth seemed to have recovered and have started to straighten up (a little). If it were mites, I wouldn't be seeing any improvement this early.

I may have overcorrected the pH flush as there is 1 leaf that is showing signs of Ca deficiency which I'm correcting with a Cal-Mag supplement.

Thanks for everyone's expertise on this matter.

/OEW