bobj
Well-Known Member
All products Im using in my grow are OMRI certified. While I understand I never built my soil, does my grow still fall under what is thought of as an 'organic' grow?
Is it constituted as an organic grow?
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Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Only if you stop feeding the plant and start letting microbes do it for you. It doesn't matter even if you are using all natural and organic products, from soil to nutrients... if the roots and the microbes are not working together in the organic feeding cycle, it is not an organic grow.
Conversely, several organic growers, myself included, will use man made synthetic nutrients as boosters and supplements, but even with non organic materials being used, as long as the organic feeding cycle is maintained and the microbes continue to do what they do, it is still an organic grow.
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bobj
Well-Known Member
So what IS my grow? What sort of grow does it fall under? And what sorts of issues can I expect in the future?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I have no clue... how do you intend to fuel this organic grow?
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bobj
Well-Known Member
We've been over this, you and I. You're doing this on purpose aren't you?
Yes, I was wrong to think I could get by without giving my plants any fertilizer. But I have since learned the error of my ways via a nitrogen deficiency. I went out and bought some granular fertilizer. My plants seem to appreciate me doing so.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Sorry bobj, I work with hundreds of people on this forum, and I do not recall what we have done previously.
Apparently you are wanting to do an organic grow. Granular fertilizer isnt how that is done. Granular fertilizer provides immediately available nutrient that will be sucked up into the roots with the water. This is forced feeding, not organic feeding.
You can fix this by adding microbes. Get some good ones. URB, Voodoo Juice and Realgrowers Recharge are good sources of the specific microbes we need. You can also try a good organic growing system like Geoflora and some others.
Zephyrs
Well-Known Member
What she Said ^^
Zephyrs
Well-Known Member
Just because a nutrient company is allowed to Slap a OMIR signification on a Liquid Nutrient. Does Not Mean it will Allow the Microbial Life too flourish after application!! JM2C
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
It is extremely hard to keep the organic feeding cycle going in coco, but it can be done. @GeoFlora Nutrients can do it.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Hi bobj, check out my organic soil mix in my signature.
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
oyeah, and I'll have what she's having...
funny how "organic" has grown as a word. used to mean farming without chemical fertilisers, pesticides, etc., and I guess it still does mean that. but it has grown to describe a whole culture of "natural" practices. "organic" used to mean you added manure and didn't spray chemicals to kill pests. I've never heard anyone say "organic" means you must add microbes (even though adding microbes is very clearly an organic farming practice).
personally I mix up my soil with OMRI grade material if I can get it, but that alone doesn't make my grow organic. I add micorrhizae to help the roots access the organic nutrients I've built into the soil, e.g. bone meal, bat guano, etc. this year I realised it is necessary to add malted barley flour which contains an enzyme needed to break down oyster shell and crab shell. when I had a potassium deficiency earlier this year, I mixed up a mild seaweed concentrate solution 0-0-4 and it solved the problem.
@bobj your grow ingredients may be "organic" but going forward you probably will want to find out more about what the plants need and how to make those nutrients more accessible to your plants.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
I just did some googling... so, I see this is related to SST (sprouted seed tea, aka enzyme tea)... in this case, a tea made from milled malted barley (sprouted/dried/ground), like what BuildASoil.com carries. I see on another forum, folks talking about the enzymes... which break down different substances: amylase (carbohydrates), chitinase (chitin), phosphatase, urease, protease, and others. So, chitin is contained in oyster shell, and chitinase is found in sprouted barley. The enzymes work in concert with the soil microbes to make minerals and other nutrients more available to the roots. Note that an SST solution can also be used as a foliar spray.
From Alchimiaweb.com: "Some of these enzymes, specifically chitinase enzymes, have been shown to have an inhibiting effect against fusarium, a pathogenic fungus that causes great losses in agriculture as well as in cannabis gardens."
I'm a total newbie to SST, but would like to try it. I'm gonna get me a bag of organic barley seed!
And this brings us much joy - and we very much appreciate it!
I, myself, often don't even pay attention to who posted what I am replying to. I'm a bit crispy around the edges, so while I might vividly recall a certain day when I was three years old, what I ate yesterday (did I eat, yesterday?) is often somewhat... hazy. Also, it is entirely possible to become annoyed with someone, yet still realize that they need some help. Not paying attention to user names makes it easier to keep the want to help them from being purely theoretical. Finally, I have poor
Don't assume that, just because a person does not appear to specifically recall interacting with you, previously, that they are merely jerking your leg, as it were. There are nearly 5,000,000 posts here, and more than 150,000 registered members (many of whom are still active, at least to some extent). And, oft times, one person's issue mirrors another's closely enough that it could almost be a copy & paste.
I realize what you are attempting to get across to the OP, but...
Geoflora's website said:
Geoflora's website said:
<WINK>
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
yep, I used the wrong words, thank you for catching it. What I meant to say is that dry organic fertilizer, meant to be immediately available to the plants, is NOT how you do organic. That all purpose 4-4-4 fertilizer might claim to be organic, but in the strictest sense of the word, its not an organic grow until the microbes are processing the raw nutrients and feeding them to the plant. If your fertilizer rides in on the water into the plant, it ain't organic in my understanding of the term. In the case of Geoflora, what you top dress every 2 weeks is not a traditional feed... it is raw nutrient and the microbes to process it. The plant can't directly use most of what is in there without the microbes help.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
amazingly, I found a little bag of live purple barley seeds today, at our local natural food store. gonna sprout 'em up!
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Hi @Emilya, thanks for all your great posts.
(I'll put quotes around organic here, to distinguish from the legal definition of organic, as in organic farming, or organic produce.)
Did you say an "organic" grow must use OMRI certified organic fertilizers, or did you say that some chemical fertilizers could also be used and people would still call it "organic"? It becomes a bit fuzzy, yeah? because, for example, I use pure, solution-grade potassium sulfate – i.e. a chemical powder. That product just happens to be OMRI certified, but another product that is chemically identical may not be OMRI certified.
Another aspect is pesticides/fungicides... I only use neem, hydrogen peroxide, and limonene, as opposed to any commercial, chemical-based products.
(I'll put quotes around organic here, to distinguish from the legal definition of organic, as in organic farming, or organic produce.)
Did you say an "organic" grow must use OMRI certified organic fertilizers, or did you say that some chemical fertilizers could also be used and people would still call it "organic"? It becomes a bit fuzzy, yeah? because, for example, I use pure, solution-grade potassium sulfate – i.e. a chemical powder. That product just happens to be OMRI certified, but another product that is chemically identical may not be OMRI certified.
Another aspect is pesticides/fungicides... I only use neem, hydrogen peroxide, and limonene, as opposed to any commercial, chemical-based products.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
As long as microbes are in control of feeding the plant, it is an organic grow, even if some artificial, or man made compounds are used to provide part of the feeding. As long as the plant is telling the microbes to bring the nutrients to the roots, and it is not being force fed into the roots with the water, then it remains an organic grow.
Regarding pesticides, there is natural vs synthetic. There is nothing organic about these compounds in relation to the feeding cycle and as far as I am concerned, in this context the label "organic" is being misused. Commercial / Chemical based is usually much more effective than natural and as far as our bodies are concerned, some of the natural stuff is just as bad for us as the chemicals. I see nothing wrong with using a systemic chemically based pesticide that effectively does the job and then breaks down and goes away completely in 5 weeks. As long as I know my timing is right, I know that this method is safe and powerful and that I won't be ingesting it in the end. If I am treating for bugs in Veg, I use the chemicals, no pest strips or whatever works, but when in bloom and I find I need to deal with bugs, I will try to go natural. I employ modern pest control with organic gardening. If you ask if my gardens are completely natural and organically certified, I can not honestly say that I am. If you ask however, if I grow organically, you will get an enthusiastic yes!
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
OK, so I am heavily leaning toward all natural organic gardening style cannabis cultivation.
I never really understood how this kind of thing ended up getting called "organic" in the first place. If a thing has carbon covalent bonds, it's organic, lol.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
I like the European word for it better... biologica (IT), biologiques (FR), biologische (NL). In German, they stick a "Bio-" in front of the word... e.g. Bio-Hanf (organic hemp).
Back in the day, all farming was organic. Then along came chemical agriculture. I've always thought non-organic food products should be labelled differently, and organic products shouldn't require a special label. I think all food products should be required to show how much glyphosate residue is in the product.
Back in the day, all farming was organic. Then along came chemical agriculture. I've always thought non-organic food products should be labelled differently, and organic products shouldn't require a special label. I think all food products should be required to show how much glyphosate residue is in the product.
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