Is a cure necessary if going directly to extracts?

[KingJohnC]

Nine Toed Hippie brings up a good discussion on why people use a water bong or vaporizer to remove the vegetation flavor of cannabis. Palatable preference as individuals posses more acute senses or become sensitized to undesirable components. I can relay when vaporizing fresh cannabis which is uncured a decreased potency is usualy present leading to my belief either by reduction of undesirable elements allows cannabis composition to improve in a more desirable composition in extended aging and curing process.

 

[InTheShed]

Nine Toed Hippie brings up a good discussion on why people use a water bong or vaporizer to remove the vegetation flavor of cannabis.

Again, we are way off Azi's reason for starting this thread, but if you have vegetation flavor in your buds you aren't drying or curing them correctly. All folks I know use a bong to take the harshness out of the smoke, not to remove any vegetation flavor. Smoke is harsh, ask folks who live in forest fire areas.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

Nine Toed Hippie brings up a good discussion on why people use a water bong or vaporizer to remove the vegetation flavor of cannabis. Palatable preference as individuals posses more acute senses or become sensitized to undesirable components. I can relay when vaporizing fresh cannabis which is uncured a decreased potency is usualy present leading to my belief either by reduction of undesirable elements allows cannabis composition to improve in a more desirable composition in extended aging and curing process.

Yo detecto too mucho guano bro.

Haha.

I’m out!

NTH

 

[KingJohnC]

Again, we are way off Azi's reason for starting this thread, but if you have vegetation flavor in your buds you aren't drying or curing them correctly. All folks I know use a bong to take the harshness out of the smoke, not to remove any vegetation flavor. Smoke is harsh, ask folks who live in forest fire areas.

Yes! What is at causation for the reasoning why the instinct is to remove this harsh element from burning cannabis! This is what I am relaying is reducing during the extended drying and aging process, cannabinoid composition aside. Our human senses are overwhelmed by small amounts of these compounds when either present in any ingested or consumed items. Burning these same undesirable elements concentrates their composition in air. When we consume any mater our senses are able to detect trace minute amounts of compounds we find undesirable. I am certain you have chewed and evaluated your preferred taste of a fruit or vegetable and some time you either get an unripened or off otherwise disappointing experience from otherwise consumable edible foods. We are easily able to determine when otherwise edible foods are fowled by small changes in what is either natural or artificially incorporated into the foods.

I am also relaying when we remove the vegetation from palatability, personal anecdotal experience leads my belief that the cannabinoids improve in the drying and aging process. If we understand the term ripening applied to foods, my personal belief is that there is a similar action present in any cannabinoids and aged cannabis buds are superior for this reason.

 

[Azimuth]

I can relay when vaporizing fresh cannabis which is uncured a decreased potency is usualy present leading to my belief either by reduction of undesirable elements allows cannabis composition to improve in a more desirable composition in extended aging and curing process.

But that could just be that fresh, uncured bud is presumably heavier because of retained moisture, some of which the cure removes. So, if your standard hit is some normal unit, a cured bud of the same weight will be more potent because it takes more product to equal the fresh harvest weight.

It's often estimated that 80% of the weight of the bud is water at harvest and a cure brings that way down, so an uncured, undried fresh bud would naturally be less potent at a given weight. That doesn't mean it has less cannabinoids, just that those cannabinoids are diluted because of the water weight. That's often the argument given for water cured bud, that it is more portent. But it also dries down more because of the water soluable stuff that goes away as part of that process so a water cured bud is estimated at 15% of pre-dry weight, while a normally dried bud is more like 20%. So, in that case the increased potency could very easily be attributed to the weight of the green matter that's left and have absolutely nothing to do with the cannabinoids themselves.

I'm only interested in that set of cannabinoids and don't care about the other stuff unless the processes that improve the green matter also improve the cannabinoids in some way which I'm increasingly suspecting they don't.

 

[InTheShed]

What is at causation for the reasoning why the instinct is to remove this harsh element from burning cannabis!

The causation is that inhaling smoke of any kind is bad for you. That's why you cough. Not just cannabis, anything. The main cause of death in fires is smoke inhalation, unrelated to cannabis. That's why people use bongs. Not to "remove the vegetation flavor."

I'm out of this conversation now.

 

[KingJohnC]

But that could just be that fresh, uncured bud is presumably heavier because of retained moisture, some of which the cure removes. So, if your standard hit is some normal unit, a cured bud of the same weight will be more potent because it takes more product to equal the fresh harvest weight.

It's often estimated that 80% of the weight of the bud is water at harvest and a cure brings that way down, so an uncured, undried fresh bud would naturally be less potent at a given weight. That doesn't mean it has less cannabinoids, just that those cannabinoids are diluted because of the water weight. That's often the argument given for water cured bud, that it is more portent. But it also dries down more because of the water soluable stuff that goes away as part of that process so a water cured bud is estimated at 15% of pre-dry weight, while a normally dried bud is more like 20%. So, in that case the increased potency could very easily be attributed to the weight of the green matter that's left and have absolutely nothing to do with the cannabinoids themselves.

I should clarify the vaporizer i mention is the Arizer Extreme Q Vaporizer featured in my Review of the Arizer Extreme Q Vaporizer Provided by Vaporizers.net

The moisture is mostly boiled off in preheating prior to extraction of the cannabinoids by heated forced air and moisture content does not greatly effect the vapour quality or factor in. The active cannabinoids are found on the surface of the flower and leaves not within cellular walls which do not factor into potency.

Those 420 Magazine members with completed Grow Journals which include harvest details of wet weight and dry aged and cannabis buds does not support the estimated inner moisture content.

I'm only interested in that set of cannabinoids and don't care about the other stuff unless the processes that improve the green matter also improve the cannabinoids in some way which I'm increasingly suspecting they don't.

I am highly suggesting that when the moisture content is removed by a high quality vaporizer you are better able to judge the remaining scent and taste components of the vaporized cannabinoids as the cannabinoids are extracted off in different temperature ranges. The difference in potency is easily identified.

Uncured cannabis buds have less quality to the effect they produce rather than extended dried and aged cannabis buds from the same plant and harvest.

The term bud tender originates from the brother who oversees and tends to the drying cannabis buds and ensures the cannabis buds are sufficiently consistent and stable in preparation for distribution as so the buds are not degraded beyond fitness before fast sale.

 

[KingJohnC]

The causation is that inhaling smoke of any kind is bad for you. That's why you cough. Not just cannabis, anything. The main cause of death in fires is smoke inhalation, unrelated to cannabis. That's why people use bongs. Not to "remove the vegetation flavor."

I'm out of this conversation now.

You are correct concerning smoke and health hazards. It is the hydrocarbons and other harmful compounds present in smoke which cause death from toxic exposure or lung tissue damage from heat. No one of us can withstand burning formaldehyde and plastic in an enclosed space without receiving a toxic exposure.

 

[Grandpa Tokin]

While you guys were jaw-jack’n, I smashed this freshly cured bud…

6Shooter 4.jpeg

• Grandpa Tokin
• Mar 22, 2022

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

That was my grinder you heard! And I mean no disrespect to anyone. Just enjoying good company.

NTH

 

[Azimuth]

 

[Azimuth]

Alright, here is my conclusion:

I think if you are going right to extracts for topical use or for use in capsule form, there is no need to cure as there doesn't appear to be any improvement in the potency or effectiveness of the cannabinoids or terpenes as part of the cure. And depending on how you extract for topicals you may or may not need to at least dry your harvest first. But, even with topicals, eliminating some of the green color from the chlorophyll might be worth it.

However, if you are going to extracts to use in edibles of some sort, then the cure is important, not for any improvement in the goodies but rather to remove the chlorophyll and its taste. That could also be done with a water cure but in that case you are losing many of the terpenes as well and there seems to be increasing acceptance that they are important input to the medical value of your harvest.

So, since I'll be extracting to either olive oil, coconut oil or vegetable glycerin for use in edibles, I'll be drying and curing as normal.