re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!
>>>As of now I still have my 2 Black Cherry Cola's
Where did you get the BCC? I grew out some "ace of spades" from TGA, which is a hybrid of BCS. (I think TGA called it Black cherry SODA). When I grew it, I got a BCS pheno. Although it was kind of fluffy, it looked and smelled amazing. I'll post tiny pics here so I don't hijack your thread, but I hope you get some of the same smell and flavor I did. I would love to try a different variety.
Again this is one of the best LED grows I've seen. But let me make sure I understand this correctly.
1. You grew this with 3 Intelligent Gro 2 x 180W = 540W of LED light, in a 2 x 4 tent, right?
2. Cost = 3 x $450 = $1350. So you paid $1350 of your own money to light up a 2 x 4 tent?
3. In the video you compared these 3 lights to surpass the results from a 1K HPS. Did you really have a 1K HPS running in a 2x4 tent? I don't think I've ever seen someone do that.
4. So if one were going to grow in a 4 x 4 area, to get the same kind of results you are getting, they would need 6 of these LED lights. $2700.
5. The manufacturer says this light is good for 2 x 3 area?
I didn't read your entire thread, so maybe I'm missing something here. I guess I don't understand why one would spend $1350 for lighting when one could get a 400-600W HPS set up with cool tube for under $300.
Enlighten me! I have been shopping for LED lighting and it looks like you figured out how to make it work. Just use 2.5 times the amount of light that the manufacturer suggests! But seriously though what am I missing?
The BCC I got from a local clone delivery place I never used.... I am not 100% certain that it is black cherry cola since all the other clones except the harlequin I ordered at the same time were wrong...however... I did go through there entire strain list comparing plants and it does seem that this is black cherry cola. There are hardly any photos available online but the ones I did see, a lot of them looked similar as far as leaf and bud structure...but again there is a chance it may be something else...
It smells and tastes amazing...like a cherry grape floral goodness... Its a very pungent smell like blue dream is, where the smoke in the air smells like incense
I definitely love this strain, even if it is not the real deal BCC
I will answer your questions to the best I can...
1. Yes I used 3x 180w Intelligent Gro LED's for this grow... the tent is listed as a 2x4 tent (hydrohut silver) but actually measures 2.5'x5'x7' so it is slightly larger than a regular 2x4 tent.
2. This was a sponsored grow, the lights were I guess "earned" by doing this journal for the company. They get exposure and results, and I get free lights... So all and all I didn't pay any money for the lights...but earned them by doing detailed journals and videos as well as informing the community of any details or answering any questions they have... but yes... If I would have bought the lights, it would have been $1350 to run what I have..
3. I do feel that the results I am seeing equal or surpass what I was growing with my 1000w HID setup.. I wasn't running 1x 1000w light...because of the shape of my tent which is a long rectangle, and my preference for mixed spectrum, I decided on running 1x 400w Ceramic metal halide + 1x 600w HPS (ushio). For my setup this was the best option to make sure I get full spectrum and very intense light. Check out my older journals and videos to see the setup with the HID lights...
4. It all depends on how your grow your plants.... If you are growing 1 tall 5' beast plant...then I probably would go with bigger wattage model like a 900W model for more PAR intensity and penetration, vs a lot of smaller lights.... but if you grow in a scrog, SOG or just a lot of plants filling your tent to the edges, then I would go with more smaller lights like what I did.. Its hard to say what lights are right for your setup because Intelligent Gro does not have the PAR readings/measurements posted for their larger models showing the footrprint so it is very hard to judge what is correct or optimal....
as far as my research shows me...the best way to judge plant lighting is by DLI or daily light integral... This is a combination of how many Mole per day the plant is receiving of light to achieve optimal conditions... depending on what plant you are growing, what daylight cycle you are using and what phase of growth the plant is in determine the DLI for the grow area, for that plant species...
For cannabis, the best info I could find says Cannabis requires 22-30+ mol per day of light for proper growth....
Which means...
(255 Umol - 347 Umol) PPFD on 24 hours daylight schedule.
(383 Umol - 520 Umol) PPFD on 18 hours daylight schedule.
(510 Umol - 694 Umol) PPFD on 12 hours daylight schedule.
So really the correct way would be to pick a light, that fills your grow area with at least 510umol over the entire footprint. Now this number should be at the bottom of the canopy, not the top... so basically using the companies supplied PAR charts, you can determine what the proper light is for the size and type of plant you are growing...
So without these numbers...its very hard to say what is "optimal" for your garden, and being that I am only familiar with the 180w models...its hard for me to comment on any other model...
I would suggest asking Graytail what he thinks on this...as he is currently using a 540W model in a 4x4 tent so he can probably give you a better analysis of the coverage and results on the larger models and how they fit that tent...
If you used the 180w models in that grow area, you probably could get away with 4 or 5 of the 180w models to cover that space...
5. The manufacturer recommendations I am not sure how they came up with those... I find that the 180w models would cover a good 1 1/2' x 2 1/2' for near optimal conditions at around 14-18" for cannabis... I don't think I would say they are good for 2x3' area for cannabis, but for many other plants that require less light I see that being pretty accurate...
So your final question...Why would someone spend $1350 to purchase LED's vs using a $300 cool tube setup...
For me its ROI or return on Investment... number 1 reason... (obviously I didn't purchase these sponsored panels) but this is why I purchased my 1st LED grow lights and got rid of my HID's...... electricity cost...
In Socal where I live, I pay around $.32 per KWH which is one of the highest rates in the nation...the average is around $.14 per KWH... so my electricity costs me a fortune.... So by reducing my grow from 1000W Plus about another 60W for the ballasts, to only 540W of LED.... I am saving 460W over my previous grow, but getting the same yield....now how does this add up??
Well... running on 12/12, the saved 460W at my rate of $.32 per KWH saves me $53 per month!!! so in 1 year... LED saves me $635 roughly per year... ...and that doesnt include the 18/6 schedule for veg which would increase this savings even more....
Now if you were to figure in the prices.... HID vs LED.....The LED pays itself off in 2 years in electrical savings....
Now if you figure in the cost of the HID system, lets say $300....that brings the ROI down to about 1 1/2 years...
Now with HID (HPS and MH) bulbs only give optimal lumen output during the first few months of operation and decline heavily over the 24,000 hour lifetime...according to what I have read, most 1000w bulbs by only 1 year later are only putting out about the same amount of lumens as a brand new 600w HPS bulb, as HID bulbs can lose up to 40% of their lumen output over the half life of the light (also listed as median lumen output) Therefore if you also add in the cost of buying a bulb every year at 80$-$120 the savings are even greater with LED...since they last 50,000 hours and typically only see a loss over that same time frame of only 20-30% for most diodes.
So financially it makes perfect sense....Its like an investment for a business...sometimes the investment takes time to see a return, but when all added up into the bigger picture, it is almost a financial no brainer to save money over time.
Now....
Thats the financial side of it...
With LED, and I think most every LED grower would agree.... LED produces better quality buds.. I have seen numerous LED grows and almost every one reports better flavor, more trichomes and overall more potency... Now is this just Placebo effect? nope..because I have also seen Lab analyisis done between HPS and LED and LED does in fact produce more THC... matter of fact in the test I saw it was a wopping 3% more THC..... now being that this is what us growers are seeking is providing the best environment to get the highest THC level...then again, if you are looking for the best quality...LED is showing its edge...
Also... in the same test, they also did a terpene profile analysis between HPS and LED.... LED showed not only stronger terpenes than the HPS did, but also encoraged the development of other terpenes that the HPS did not even promote to be available... Terpenes equal flavor so LED is not only shown by tests, but also by growers to be more flavorful...
So Not only do LED save me money over time, but they also grow better buds....
If you are a vendor to dispensaries.... the higher the THC percentage, usually the more a product is in demand, and the price you can fetch is higher.... Soo... not only are you saving more money growing, but also you possibly may get more for your final product (if you are a vendor)
So with all that said...this is why I chose to go LED and why I find that it makes sense to convert. Some may not agree, and some may just be skeptical, and some may not want to invest in LED, but I have to say I am very glad that I did, and I do not believe you will be seeing HID in any of my future grows...
***** another thought.... We as growers try to focus on our plants by customizing everything.... nutrient ratios are tweaked, PH and EC are tweaked, temps and humidity are tweaked....alll for the purpose of providing Cannabis the right environment to grow the best product..... SO... with that being said... Why are so many growers stuck on HPS technology when really the technology has advanced very little in over 25 years..??? We already know it works.... but so does miracle grow?!!! but why don't we use miracle grow for cannabis...yes it works, but does not provide the detailed elements, right ratios and all the other perks we chase as growers, as most of our products are designed for cannabis.... So why do we not tweak our lighting to be optimal like we do with our nutrients??? The HPS spectrum works, but it is far from perfect to provide the perfect lighting spectrum for cannabis, but LED can do this.... LED is able to tweak the spectrum including more reds, less yellows and greens and giving the plant a spectrum that operates photosynthesis more efficiently than HPS.... so with all the other adjustments we make growing cannabis....why do we still rely on the same old HPS lights...
So this is why I personally validate the investment into LED.... I know each person is different, but for me and my high electric rates... it only made sense..
